Iraq invasion cited as reason for worsening terror threat

[shereads]

By Reuters | September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON -- The Iraq war gave birth to a new generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to a US intelligence report cited yesterday in The New York Times.

A National Intelligence Estimate completed in April says Islamic radicalism has mushroomed worldwide and cites the Iraq war as a reason for the spread of jihad ideology, the newspaper reported.

"The estimate concludes that the radical Islamic movement has expanded from a core of Qaeda operatives and affiliated groups to include a new class of `self-generating' cells inspired by al Qaeda's leadership but without any direct connection to Osama bin Laden or his top lieutenants," the newspaper said.

The Times cited more than a dozen US government officials and outside experts with knowledge of the classified document.

It is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by US intelligence agencies since the war began in March 2003 and represents a consensus view of the 16 US spy services.
Some of the estimate's conclusions confirm predictions in a January 2003 National Intelligence Council report that said a war in Iraq might increase support for political Islam worldwide, according to the newspaper.

Perhaps Bart Simpson expressed it best when he said of the PTA Talent Show, "I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows at the same time."

Sucks: knowing this would happen, and being unable to do anything about it.

Blows: having my fate in the hands of people who didn't get it in 2003 and won't get it now. "At least Bush took action," you said.

Oops. Wrong action.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Perhaps Bart Simpson expressed it best when he said of the PTA Talent Show, "I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows at the same time."

Sucks: knowing this would happen, and being unable to do anything about it.

Blows: having my fate in the hands of people who didn't get it in 2003 and won't get it now. "At least Bush took action," you said.

Oops. Wrong action.

Yes, because making the wrong decision is better than making no decision at all.

It's a lot like being trapped in the car with a drunk driver.

 

[cloudy]

Yes, because making the wrong decision is better than making no decision at all.

It's a lot like being trapped in the car with a drunk driver.

Drunk, blind, deaf, and idiotic.

No wonder Americans are so reviled. GW makes me ashamed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The hate for what Americans have and stand for was there long before GW took office and carried out the programs laid out and designed by the Clinton administration.

I don't feel ashamed, I feel sorry for GW. He has made mistakes but has been a president in a very hard and trying time during our history. What other president, in modern times, has had to deal with the deaths of thousands Americans on American soil by foreign nationals. What other president has had a national landmark destroyed during his administration in an act of war.

If you don't believe we are at war, think back to 9/11 and remember those planes exploding as they slammed into the World Trade Towers. Think of those people, non-combatants, jumping to their deaths to escape the hell that was blazing behind them.

This county has been at war for a long time, whether you wish to believe it or not. The enemy is terrorists who come in many guises but their sole purpose is to destroy America and kill Americans.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The hate for what Americans have and stand for was there long before GW took office and carried out the programs laid out and designed by the Clinton administration.

I don't feel ashamed, I feel sorry for GW. He has made mistakes but has been a president in a very hard and trying time during our history. What other president, in modern times, has had to deal with the deaths of thousands Americans on American soil by foreign nationals. What other president has had a national landmark destroyed during his administration in an act of war.

Obviously you don't remember the Oklahoma City and First World Trade Center Bombings, Zeb.

I saw this news story early this morning on Yahoo. It seems, however, to have disappeared from both Yahoo and MSN. Interesting

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/25/iraq.democrats.ap/index.html

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Can someone please remind me again of why we went to Iraq? how was Saddam tied in with Bin Laden and the attacks? was it because of the magic bullet, I mean WMD's?? how does Al Qaeda figure into this? and do most people think that Saddam's capture and trial are way more interesting than OJ's?

 

[rgraham666]

I believe I can speak for the rest of the world Zeb, when I say we don't hate America. Certainly some people do. But many people, like me, even if they didn't always agree with your actions thought highly of your nation.

George W. Bush has nearly destroyed that respect. Instead of an example of a democracy in action your country appears to have given into the imperial impulse. And your country seems in a blind rush to destroy the institutions and traditions that made it a great nation.

I recently read a line, "A world with terrorism as its biggest problem is a world without any big problems." Al Qaeda got lucky, once. It took years for them to succeed and haven't mounted anything similar against the States in the five years since. I'm sorry for the lives your country lost. It was a tragedy.

But the response of the current administration was ridiculous. Like drugs, the battle against terrorism is a battle of police and intelligence services, not of armies. Invading Iraq was a foolish thing to do and nothing that's happened since is a surprise.

The current administration fucked up big time, Zeb. It has nothing to do with 'the challenge they face'. They screwed up and your country is going to have to live with the consequences of that for a long time.

 

[rgraham666]

Uhm, one more thing, Zeb.

What 'programs laid out and designed by the Clinton administration'?

 

[shereads]

Can someone please remind me again of why we went to Iraq? how was Saddam tied in with Bin Laden and the attacks? was it because of the magic bullet, I mean WMD's?? how does Al Qaeda figure into this? and do most people think that Saddam's capture and trial are way more interesting than OJ's?

Freedom terror freedom democracy

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Obviously you don't remember the Oklahoma City and First World Trade Center Bombings, Zeb.

I saw this news story early this morning on Yahoo. It seems, however, to have disappeared from both Yahoo and MSN. Interesting

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/25/iraq.democrats.ap/index.html

No I remember those. It should have been a wack in the head to get our attention but for some reason it didn't. Oklahoma was tragic but nowhere near the catastrophy as 9/11. The first World Trade Center bombing was also tragic and should have alerted us and had us taking action to prevent 9/11. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but neither of them equal the scope of 9/11.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Freedom terror freedom democracy

Two out of four ain't too bad.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Uhm, one more thing, Zeb.

What 'programs laid out and designed by the Clinton administration'?

The Clinton administration first proposed the invation of Iraq and the removal of Sadam but never carried it out. The plan was there and only carried out after 9/11. Clinton was too distracted with Monica to do anything about the plan while in office.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I believe I can speak for the rest of the world Zeb, when I say we don't hate America. Certainly some people do. But many people, like me, even if they didn't always agree with your actions thought highly of your nation.

George W. Bush has nearly destroyed that respect. Instead of an example of a democracy in action your country appears to have given into the imperial impulse. And your country seems in a blind rush to destroy the institutions and traditions that made it a great nation.

I recently read a line, "A world with terrorism as its biggest problem is a world without any big problems." Al Qaeda got lucky, once. It took years for them to succeed and haven't mounted anything similar against the States in the five years since. I'm sorry for the lives your country lost. It was a tragedy.

But the response of the current administration was ridiculous. Like drugs, the battle against terrorism is a battle of police and intelligence services, not of armies. Invading Iraq was a foolish thing to do and nothing that's happened since is a surprise.

The current administration fucked up big time, Zeb. It has nothing to do with 'the challenge they face'. They screwed up and your country is going to have to live with the consequences of that for a long time.

Well that's just it, you can't and don't speak for the rest of the world. I never said the rest of the world hated us. I just said that the hate was there before GW took office. It's been there for a long time, remember Iran? The "xxx Days of the Iran Hostage" drama that played out on the nightly news?

Unfortunately, I think Clinton destroyed it in my eyes long before Bush. And if you believe that bullshit about that terrorism quote then ask some of your friends in Northern Ireland if it's true. Of perhaps the people of France or Spain can clue you in on how they felt about it.

Why would you believe that terrorism is a law enforcement problem? They attack without warning, they invade our country to commit acts of sabotage and terror. You don't fight that with the police. You fight that with soldiers, warriors, who have chosen to defend their country with their lives.

The difference between a policeman and a soldier is that a policeman has dedicated his life to helping people to protect them from criminals, a soldier has dedicated his life to defend his country from aggression, foreign and domestic, with his life if necessary. Terrorism is a form of aggression, although it is also a form crime, it is designed to overthrow governments. And that, I hope, we will not stand for.

 

[shereads]

The current administration fucked up big time, Zeb. It has nothing to do with 'the challenge they face'. They screwed up and your country is going to have to live with the consequences of that for a long time.

Sadly, so will every other country that might be targeted by the new wave of Bush-inspired terrorist recruits.

"Sorry world. We tried.

~ Half of America"

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

ZEB: 9/111 posed a terrible test, but not a particularly mysterious one: respond in an intelligent, targeted, meaningful way that will punish those responsible, bring closure to the victims' families, strengthen our borders - and deny the terrorists their victory. A thinking person would have asked what victory Bin Laden had hoped to achieve, and been careful not to fulfill it. Anyone knowledgeable about Bin Laden's rhetoric would have known he hoped to provoke a reaction that would ignite massive hatred of the US in the Islamic world.

Before Shock & Awe, we were hated by a minority of Islamic extremists and Bin Laden had zero credibility among moderates. Even in Iran, there were demonstrations in support of the United States after 9/11. The invasion of Afghanistan was accepted as justice. The Taliban had provided Bin Laden with a base of operations, making it possible for him to attack the U.S. People around the world understood we had a right to bring Bin Laden to justice and destroy the system that abetted him. Not everyone agreed it should be a military action, but I don't know of anyone who disputed the need to go after Bin Laden and disband the Taliban.

All Bush had to do was concentrate on finishing the job in Afghanistan. It's a no brainer.

So of course, he didn't do that.

Instead, he took resources that might have been used there, and to protect our borders here, and wasted them on an invasion that had nothing to do with 9/11. An invasion his secretary of state told him would backfire. He not only invaded the wrong country, he trumped up evidence to get Congress' support.

You feel sorry for Bush? I feel sorry for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians and 3000 US soldiers who have died so far in a war that accomplished none of what Bush promised, and has done the opposite of combatting terrorism. I feel sorry for people around the world who now share the increased risk of terrorism inspired by Bush's stupid war. People who knew he was acting out of arrogance and ignorance, and predicted that the results would be disastrous, and were helpless to stop it. Most of the people affected didn't have a vote. Those of us who did have a vote and saw what was coming were derided as America-haters, anti-military, liberal extremists.

We were right. You were wrong. You won. Everyone pays.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

What other president has had a national landmark destroyed during his administration in an act of war.

James Madison. [not intended to threadjack, just sayin'.]

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Sadly, so will every other country that might be targeted by the new wave of Bush-inspired terrorist recruits.

Zeb, feel sorry for him if you want to. He volunteered for the most powerful position in the world; he was warned by his predecessor that Osama Bin Laden was America's number one problem and chose to ignore the warning. 9/11 posed a terrible test, but not a particularly mysterious one: respond in an intelligent, targeted, meaningful way that will punish those responsible, bring closure to the victims' families - and deny the terrorists their victory. A thinking person would have asked, "What did Bin Laden hope to achieve from this?" And the answer, for someone knowlegeable of Bin Laden's rhetoric, would have had to include, "He wanted to provoke a reaction that will make America a target of hatred throughout the Islamic world." Bush's response was predictable because, as Rumsfeld said when Richard Clark reminded them that Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and not Iraq, "There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan."

The Islamic world, like most cultures, had a minority of extremists whose hatred for the west didn't reflect the position of the majority. After 9/11, even Iran had demonstrations in support of the United States. The invasion of Afghanistan was accepted as a just response; the Taliban had provided Bin Laden with a base of operations and a place to hide, and only a fringe group of extremists blamed the US for going in after him.

All Bush had to do was concentrate on finishing the job he began in Afghanistan. Instead, he took resources that might have been used there, and to protect our borders, and wasted them on an invasion that his own secretary of state advised against.

You feel sorry for Bush? I feel sorry for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians and 3000 US soldiers who have died so far in a war that has accomplished none of what Bush promised, and has made things worse. I feel sorry for the people around the world who are now share the increased risk of terrorism inspired by Bush's stupid war.

And why is GW to blame for not getting Bin Laden? Clinton ignored him also, thought it was a law enforcement problem. They are both to blame in reality, they both bumbled the opportunities, for different reasons.

I also feel sorry for those who have died defending my country. I also feel sorry for those Iraqi's who have died at the hands of terrorists. Innocent civilians killed for no reason but trying to live their lives as best they can. Killed by Islamic Fascists for just being in their way or refusing to hide them.

More people killed by terrorist - well you get what I'm leading up too. We are actually all to blame. We complacent masses, sitting on our duffs doing nothing but complain about things going on around us. Watching our reality TV shows and Entertainment Tonight to get our news on whose baby is named what.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

James Madison. [not intended to threadjack, just sayin'.]

Your right, I just forgot to put in the phrase "in modern times" in that sentence also. Althought the frist sentence should have clued you in as to what I was talking about.

 

[Liar]

Not gonna do the flame war thing, since I have no idea if Al Gore or whoever woulda done a better job. By guess is they would, but I'll never know...

But...

"Iraq invasion cited as reason for worsening terror threat."

Is this news? Haven't scores upon scores of commentators, middle eastern experts, extremism scholars and anyone with a smidgeon of common sense said this for the last few years?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Not gonna do the flame war thing, since I have no idea if Al Gore or whoever woulda done a better job. By guess is they would, but I'll never know...

But...

"Iraq invasion cited as reason for worsening terror threat."

Is this news? Haven't scores upon scores of commentators, middle eastern experts, extremism scholars and anyone with a smidgeon of common sense said this for the last few years?

And does it really matter? If it hadn't been the invasion of Iraq it would have been something else we(America) or GW did to someone or some country in the world.

 

[3113]

Excuses! Excuses!

I don't feel ashamed, I feel sorry for GW. He has made mistakes but has been a president in a very hard and trying time during our history. What other president, in modern times, has had to deal with the deaths of thousands Americans on American soil by foreign nationals. What other president has had a national landmark destroyed during his administration in an act of war.

I cannot believe you said this Zeb. All Right-wingers ever say is how weepy and soft liberals are. They natter on about how they never fought in the army or were cowards and how good it is that the righ is in power because they're tough and strong and will stay the course!

Now you're saying we should shed a tear for Bush? We should excuse his mistakes because poor little Bush is the first president to have to deal with such nastiness?

Gosh. Abe Lincoln was the first president to deal with a civil war that killed more Americans than any other war and split the country...he seemed to handle it. Three other presidents handled WORLD wars.

But poor president Bush. It's been so tough on him spending all that money on a war he didn't have to create.

I'm sorry. But if he thought that all he was going to have to do as President is read kids "My Pet Goat" and fly around in the luxury of Airforce One then he shouldn't have taken the fucking job!

That a president might have to face a terrorist destroying some landmark or face some terrible natural disasters is part of the JOB DISCRIPTION. If he's going to wimper and weep and say, "I didn't know terrorists were gonna bomb th' towers" (even though the Clinton Adm. warned him! And oh, by the way, Clinton DID do all sorts of things to capture/kill Bin Laden; your info on that is bias and flat out wrong, so don't lay Bush's stupid mistakes at Clinton's feet, that's worse than asking us to feel sorry for him!), and "I didn't know there was gonna be a big ole' hurricane and the levees might break" (even though everyone warned him), then he should not have taken the job!

He put up that big fuss over the elections, "I won! I won! I get the job!"--hey, he could have said, "Naw, sounds too hard. Let Al handle it," and gotten himself hired at some cushy oil company instead. He wanted to be President of the U.S.--and he is. He doesn't get to make excuses. And neither does anyone else get to make excuses for him.

I liked Clinton as president, I think he did a pretty good job--but I don't make excuses for how he handled Rawanda, which I think was shameful. I don't say, "Well, most presidents don't have to made decisions about genocide...."

If you are presdent--especially president of one of the most powerful countries in the world--you do have to make such decisions. If a metor from the sky comes falling in and is about to smash Chicago, you've got to make decisions. It's your job. Whether it's happened before or not, no matter how weird, deadly, scary, terrifying...no matter how prepared or unprepared you are for it, IT IS YOUR JOB. Deal.

Or get the fuck out of the kitchen.

 

[shereads]

We are actually all to blame. We complacent masses, sitting on our duffs doing nothing but complain about things going on around us. Watching our reality TV shows and Entertainment Tonight to get our news on whose baby is named what.

No, I'm not to blame. Not for this. I fought it tooth and nail. I wrote and emailed and phoned my congressional respresentatives. i opened myself to attack by Bush supporers and 'patriots' in my own family. I'm to blame only because I continue to pay taxes, knowing they help pay to kill Iraqi civilians who never did me any harm.

This is your baby, Zeb. Accept the blame, and don't you dare share it with those of us who warned you. Its bad enough we have to live with the results of your blind faith. I'm damned if I'll share your guilt for doing nothing.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I cannot believe you said this Zeb. All Right-wingers ever say is how weepy and soft liberals are. They natter on about how they never fought in the army or were cowards and how good it is that the righ is in power because they're tough and strong and will stay the course!

Now you're saying we should shed a tear for Bush? We should excuse his mistakes because poor little Bush is the first president to have to deal with such nastiness?

Gosh. Abe Lincoln was the first president to deal with a civil war that killed more Americans than any other war and split the country...he seemed to handle it. Three other presidents handled WORLD wars.

But poor president Bush. It's been so tough on him spending all that money on a war he didn't have to create.

I'm sorry. But if he thought that all he was going to have to do as President is read kids "My Pet Goat" and fly around in the luxury of Airforce One then he shouldn't have taken the fucking job!

That a president might have to face a terrorist destroying some landmark or face some terrible natural disasters is part of the JOB DISCRIPTION. If he's going to wimper and weep and say, "I didn't know terrorists were gonna bomb th' towers" (even though the Clinton Adm. warned him!), and "I didn't know there was gonna be a big ole' hurricane and the leves might break" (even though everyone warned him), then he should not have taken the job!

He put up that big fuss over the elections, "I won! I won! I get the job!"--hey, he could have said, "Naw, sounds too hard. Let Al handle it," and gotten himself hired at some cushy oil company instead. He wanted to be President of the U.S.--and he is. He doesn't get to make excuses. And neither does anyone else get to make excuses for him.

I liked Clinton as president, I think he did a pretty good job--but I don't make excuses for how he handled Rawanda, which I think was shameful. I don't say, "Well, most presidents don't have to made decisions about genocide...."

If you are presdent--especially president of one of the most powerful countries in the world--you do have to make such decisions. If a metor from the sky comes falling in and is about to smash Chicago, you've got to make decisions. It's your job. Whether it's happened before or not, no matter how weird, deadly, scary, terrifying...no matter how prepared or unprepared you are for it, IT IS YOUR JOB. Deal.

Or get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Mmmm.... I never said anything about shedding a tear or crying over spilt milk. And I'm not making excuses for GW. I was just stating facts. And not really being a Bush supporter, just that he was the best man presenting himself for the job, I think he has done an admirable job.

As for the rest of your rant...I see no reason to respond except to say...he is doing his job, a job he volunteered for and the people of this country elected him too. If they didn't like what he was doing you would think they would have voted him out of office two years ago?!?!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

No, I'm not to blame. Not for this. I fought it tooth and nail. I wrote and emailed and phoned my congressional respresentatives. i opened myself to attack by Bush supporers and 'patriots' in my own family. I'm to blame only because I continue to pay taxes, knowing they help pay to kill Iraqi civilians who never did me any harm.

This is your baby, Zeb. Accept the blame, and don't you dare share it with those of us who warned you. Its bad enough we have to live with the results of your blind faith. I'm damned if I'll share your guilt for doing nothing.

So you would have us stick our heads in the sand? Ignore those thing which we could set right? Not stick up for the oppressed? Not deter aggression against our fellow man?

Ok. I except the blame for not doing those things.

 

[shereads]

So you would have us stick our heads in the sand? Ignore those thing which we could set right? Not stick up for the oppressed? Not deter aggression against our fellow man?

Ok. I except the blame for not doing those things.

That didn't make a lick of sense. No wonder you're a Bush voter.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

That didn't make a lick of sense. No wonder you're a Bush voter.

And no wonder you blame everyone else for the things that go wrong.