Internet Relationships-Need Some Opinions

[Patryn]

I've been in a very cofusing situation lately. The 'Cross-Dressing' thread got me to thinking about it again. Sorry if I bore anyone with this story, but I need some impartial opinions here.

Here's the deal...I met this guy, let's call him David, not his real name of course, online about a year ago. Instant 'click', no pun intended. We became very close online, he talked about his personal problems, I talked about mine, we cybered (frequently), even had the occasional argument. Long story short, I went to visit him in January. His wife was out of town that week, purely by coincidence, and another long story short, we had sex.

For anyone who's never had this experience, it's hard to explain, but it was the single most perfect moment I've ever had in my life. Here I was, finally being with this person I had grown to love, and suspected he felt the same way (he and his wife had been having a lot of problems)...Ozzy's 'Road to Nowhere' on the radio...I could have died right there and been happy.

Anyway, being that he was married, I made it a point to ask him if he was sure he wanted to, and also made it clear that we didn't HAVE to do anything. Yes. I asked him the next day if he was comfortable with what happened. Again yes.

Well, I no sooner got off the plane in my home state, than I found out everything was most definately NOT OK. He felt guilty about the whole thing and told his wife, but told her it was ME that made repeated advances on HIM that he didn't accept. I went nuts. I forwarded her ALL the e-mails that proved otherwise, which prompted him to stop talking to me, saying HE lost all trust in ME.

Skip a few months and a lot of fights and heart to hearts later, and we are friends. He and his wife are STILL having problems off and on (more on than off). But here's the kicker. I still love him, but I'm not sure how I feel about him. I know how that sounds...but I'm not sure if I can trust him, and I still sometimes think back on what happened and get angry.

The odd thing is, is I understand why he did it. I don't agree with it, but I DO understand it. He needed closeness, trust and affection that he wasn't getting at home, and found it in me, but then realized he really DID care about his relationship at home. But to pin it on me just because I wasn't there, and he didn't HAVE to answer his e-mail?!?!

He's since apologized, and seems he sincerely wants a friendship, but I still don't know...we've talked about all the whys and feelings, but....I think I know what everyone is going to say...maybe I just need to hear it from someone else, but what do you guys think? Be honest, please....I wouldn't have asked if I didn't want honest opinions.

Sorry again for the wordy post, but you all know how it is sometimes, I'm sure.

 

[CreamyLady]

After reading your post, I came away with (to me) the crux of the problem:

I don't think you can trust him not to cave in a crisis.

You can have fun with him, and share with him, but anytime he feels guilty, or gets stressed, he will feed you to the wolves.

If it's any consolation, I've had some online relationships blow up in my face, but I've never taken a cybersex relationship offline. It has mostly been lack of opportunity, but sometimes I think my guardian demon is watching out for me.

 

[Sammyjo]

This is a really tough situation.

The question is this: Where do you want the relationship to go?

Are you satisfied with just a friendship? Will you continue to meet for sex? Will he stay with his wife? and how will you feel if he does? If he doesn't, will you two be together? Only you can answer these questions.

I have a similar situation that I am going through right now with someone who has been very close to me for over a year.

It is hard to go from romantic love to friendship love in a heartbeat. You have obviously grown to care for this man deeply. Those feelings don't just go away.

As stupid as this sounds, it usually works:

Sit down in a comfortable spot, with pen and paper. Make a list of the things you love about the situation, make a list of the things you don't like about the situation. You are going to go through a whole range of emotions, crying, laughing, etc. so make sure that you are mentally prepared to face all these emotions. Somewhere along the way, you WILL come to a decision about what you want, what you are comfortable with, where you expect things to go, etc.

I sure hope that you can work this all out. I do know exactly where you are coming from. I know how hard it has been, how hard it is, and how hard it will be.

On a happy note, my situation seems to have settled down a bit, and I can see things more clearly than before. I still speak to the person in question, and we are starting to rebuild the trust between us. I hope you find the same.

*hugs*
Sammy

 

[Patryn]

Thanks for the input so far guys. I really DO appreciate it. In answer to a few questions, I don't know where the relationship might go in the future, or even where or IF I want it to go anywhere at all. No, we probably won't have anything physical in the future, we live too far apart for that, and I don't think I would again with him unless he was not married or seperated.

I love him an immense amount as a friend, but I sometimes feel like a fool for it, in light of everything that's happened. In short, what do I love about the whole thing? That even THROUGH all that's happened, when either one of us loses our sanity, we're still there for each other, to be their sanity until they get it back.

*sighs* Maybe I'm just tearing myself in two over something that's completely doomed, either as a friendship OR a romantic relationship and I just need to let it go if I'M not comfortable with it, but every time I try, something keeps pulling me back. And what if I regret it after I've told David to go jump?

Thanks for the kind words, and Sammy, I'm glad to hear that things are looking up for you.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Patryn,

I think anytime someone gets involved with someone that is already in a relationship, you are putting yourself at risk for heartache. If you were just out for fun and didn't have any real feelings for this other person, then it might work out. But in you case, it seems that there is an emotional connection with David.

He has already thrown you to the wolves once when the situation got to difficult for him. And odds are, he will do it again in my opinion. To bad he could not be honest with you and his wife. However, he doesn't sound as if he can even be honest with himself, so to be honest with others is very difficult. This is not to say that he not a good person, but just that he sounds confused and looking elsewhere for the intimacy that he should be sharing with his wife. Unfortunately, you have gotten hurt by it and being the outsider will probably get hurt again if you maintain this relationship while he is still involved with his wife.

Being the third person in a relationship rarely works out when the two primary participants are having difficulties between themselves. I've learned the hard way (IRL) not to be the third person in relationships. I've discovered that if someone I care about is not sure of their feelings for me and wants to explore their feelings elsewhere, then I have to step back, get on with my life and let them get on with theirs. It can be a very difficult thing to do, but in the long run taking care of yourself is more important. Waiting for someone to chose you over someone else is just not a place I want to be.

I hope things work out for you Patryn. I also hope you realize that you are someone that deserves to have the undivided attention of the person you care for. (this is just my opinion)

Good Luck.

MM

 

[Isabella Thorne]

well Patryn dear .. what can I say .. know how you are hurting ..

But sometimes one big hurt is better than dragging out continuous pain over long periods of time .. I think it can lower your self esteem big time ..

Drop him hon .. drop him fast and drop him quick .. drop him like a hot potato. And no friend shit either. It will only prolong the pain.

And I guarantee you .. you will find someone new soon .. someone without baggage and without a game-playing mentality ..

and just learn from your experience ... be wiser next time and proceed with more caution.

That's just my opinion. You know you have it in you to do, girl! Just make sure you don't look back ..

luv, Isabella xx

 

[Hecate]

Internet Relations ... I do think I talked about those a few times already, and I guess I am one of the people having had a fair share of each kind of them (love, friendship or merely sexual pleasuresincluding meeting some of the people) already.

Now to be honest - and I am afraid I will not be liked too much for it - have one married party involved and there is no way it will work if even slightly related to love or feelings in that direction. I never have been declared the "guilty" part and (both) men did take the blame towards their respective wifes (and I even would have offered them to put the blame on me if it would have helped, but they were both mature enough to take those chances and settle things in their real life relations by facing the truth) when things became "open knowledge", nevertheless - it didn't take too long for them to leave after that. Let's face it - it just is so much easier to leave a person that is on the other side of a screen instead of dealing with the "real thing" including tears and fears and accussations on a very real daily level.

I still am a strong defender of on-line friendships and relations, and I encourage meeting people - just I have realized there is no way to set up a long term relation headed towards "more" from a position in which one party is not "free on market".

If you can "reduce" your relation to something on a strictly friendship level, you may have a slight chance (although I do not really consider it too probable it will work since his wife will most likely be less than happy to know he still "sees" you, for everything else in the long run .. sorry, no encouragenement from my side. I would advise you to get out of it completely. Even for "only friends" I have the odd feeling you have been "abused" once too many.

Take care

 

[Guest]

The bad thing about getting involved in a person who is cheating on his/her spouse, is that he/she could easily cheat on you too! I've seen it happen over and over. Just be careful! And goodluck!

 

[Treat]

I agree with Tiggs! Getting involved with someone who is already cheating leeaves the fact that he/she will do the same to you. Though you may meet and do whatever, the fact still remains he is married. You also have to ask yourself if that is the kind of relationship you are truly seeking. No one wants to be number two, specially in a relationship. The best thing to do in my opinion would be to cut off all contact and start anew with yourself first and foremost and then find the one person that can truly make you happy and not have and reservations about doing so.

 

[Endlessly]

See also "Not a big fan of censorship"

Patryn..

I think you need a hug. *HUGS*

 

[SpecialK]

Patryn,

All I have to say is go re-read Magic Merlin's and Isabella Thorne's posts. They have said what I would have said much more succinctly than I could have said it.

Get out. Completely. If he's screwed you (literally and non-literally) he will try to do it again.

He does sound like a man who doesn't know what he wants other than wanting everything, or at least a sample of it. Don't resign yourself to be a sample for him. Sanity be damned, you don't need him to keep you afloat. And it might serve him better if he didn't have you to use as a lifebuoy. Trust yourself. Make the break. It won't be easy but it will be better in the long run.

Hmmmn... I sound really pessimistic and harsh here. But I have been around the cyberblock before. As far as net relationships go, they are both very easy and very hard. They are easy because you really don't have to interact with that person on a daily face-to-face basis and if you have an argument all you need to do is log off. The commitment isn't as strong. Yet the hard thing is, if you want that commitment to be strong, it takes a lot of energy, money and trust. I've always been an all or nothing kind of person. And whether you take any grains of salt from this post depends on whether you are too.

Good luck, Patryn.

K

 

[Weird Harold]

Well, I no sooner got off the plane in my home state, than I found out everything was most definately NOT OK. He felt guilty about the whole thing and told his wife, but told her it was ME that made repeated advances on HIM that he didn't accept. I went nuts. I forwarded her ALL the e-mails that proved otherwise, which prompted him to stop talking to me, saying HE lost all trust in ME.

The paragraph I quoted tells you everything you need to know about him. He's thrown you to the wolves once, and I am sure he will do it again.

It's easy for me to sit here and say you should dump the schmuck, and I know it's not going to be very easy to take the advice everyone has given you. However, dumping him will be less painfull in the long run.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))))

 

[Jeff726]

Just give it up. (the relationship that is)

He will just hurt you again and again. You also get hurt when sex is involved. If you have to use sex to show someone you care about them, you have problems. And you having an affair doesn't help either. Reading about things like this makes me cry "HYPOCRITE!" at all the people on this board who say our morals are declining, yet some of them are the same people who intrude on others' relationships and have affairs, and the like.

I hate to seem the ass here, but that's just how it is. I wish you the best Patryn. (hugs)



-Jeff

 

[Melody_lane]

No offense, but...

I don't get it...why do women go have affairs with married men. Yes, the men that do it are dicks...so, first of all- why would you want a guy like that...and then, aren't you just as morally corrupt for enabling him to do it, being ignorant to the woman to whom he is married?
Ahhh...so much more I could say, but I doubt there is a point!

Do people just not respect the insitution of marriage?

I mean...wtf!

 

[Patryn]

Hey, Melody, that's OK, no offense taken. I see your point, and this is the first time I've done something like this, personally. Him, I can't say...don't know. Yes, I do respect the institution of marriage, and yes, I am as guilty as he is. But there were, um...extenuating circumstances at the time that made me feel the way I did and do the things I did. That doesn't make it right, but...still none of this changes what happened.

Yeah, everyone pretty much said what I already know...I guess you just sometimes need to hear it from neutral people, huh?

More or less, I didn't really want to persue a romantic relationship with David as long as he's married, but I would have liked to have saved the friendship. I've been thinking about this all day, and I've come to see that I've been the one doing all the work.

It's just hard to completely 'end' it and give up all hope of anything, I guess I wanted to believe he was a better person than he turned out to be. Guess I just don't want to admit that I was fooled or I misjudged him. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

Thanks everybody! You're all great! If any of you guys need an ear, my mailbox is always open.

 

[Gingersnap]

I have a very good friend who I met online and we have a managed to become very close. I would trust this man with my life. However neither of us would ever close the line of friendship. It isn't just that he is married and a dad. It is about the connection each of us feels that is too important to risk on something as fleeting as a sexual encounter. I do understand the need that drove you to make those choices. I only hope that you will have the strength and resolve to walk away. Try as you might I think you would always be angry and hurt and it would be a wall between you. Seems to me he made his choice a while back.

 

[CreamyLady]

Probably this is not the best forum for this, and I'm a little drunk anyway, but:

Do I respect the institution of marriage?

Mmmm . . . yes and no. Yes, I respect couples who make a firm commitment, make every effort to grow together, build together, respect each other, and work very hard to keep their relationship a living and exciting thing.

I do not respect the institution as a bandaid for loneliness, a prop for the weak, or as an apology for a hidden agenda. In many ways, I think of it as legalized prostitution.

I have had affairs with married men. They were not "dicks." They were human beings, flawed as many are, with human needs that were not being met. I never went into the question of fault with them, and they never made an issue of it with me. We met each other's needs, and parted peacefully when the time was right.

As a single woman of middle age, I see many marriages that are in desperate trouble. I have heard every possible story, from the easy line to a need for understanding. I have learned one truth: If it isn't in the marriage, someone will go looking for it.

I'm not sure about the morality of this. Do I think I am robbing some poor woman of her husband if I go to bed with him? Hell, no. He goes home to her -- which is as it should be. Am I robbing myself? Possibly, but then I have that skewed idea of marriage . . .

Things are never as simple as they look on the surface, and I think I'm too damned drunk to try and sort it out. The fact is, most men are not "dicks," and most women aren't morally corrupt, and human relationships are not neat, tidy and perfect.

If they are, someone please tell me all about it when I sober up.

 

[Jeff726]

I know how you feel Creamy.

I just wish people didn't have to have affairs to deal with their problems. I mean if it is that bad, just leave and don't torture the other person. Get it over with with the person that things are not working with then find what you need once you are free. Simple philosophy but it works.


-Jeff

 

[Hecate]

The institution of marriage... don't I respect it?

I have stated somewhere above that I too had my share of on-line relations to married men. I didn't seek for them - it happened without my intention, without any distinction between married or not. We became friends - and eventually more, but should I run now in the future as soon as I learn anyone is married just because it MIGHT happen that we eventually will share some feelings for each other stronger than just good friends? I will not do that since I will not loose any chance of making great friends, married or not.

Now both times I happened to be involved with married men they were living in a troubled relationship. Each time I gave them the option to just end their connection to me and all contact as soon as they felt my on-line presence was interfering with their real lifes. In all cases my presence though made them stronger and let them deal with the things that were not RIGHT in their present real lives. I met both men eventually - AFTER(without any of my doing) they had moved out from home. All this I do not take on my account as disrespect of an institution since there was nothing left but an empty shell at that point called marriage, but no "soul and heart" to live up to the meaning of the commitment. You can not disrespect or destroy anything that isn't "real" anymore in the first place.

In both cases the guys returned to their families after all - and the wifes (no kidding!) after having learned about my presence and role in things even kind of thanked me to make visible the things that had been lacking in their relationships and that now were out in the open and could be discussed. In both cases they had been together "for the kids" and all parties involved had suffered for years, not liking themselves and their partners for being stuck in the situations they were in.

The LAST thing on earth I would do was actively approach a married guy and try to invade a happy relation and family life! NEVER EVER and under no circumstances can I see any reason to excuse such a destructive approach to a happy and living marriage.

Now to answer the initial question: Do I respect the institution of marriage?

I do (even more than I do respect any other form of happy relation even if there is no "official seal" on it)! And this is why I still refuse marriage for myself - because I do treasure the meaning of this life long commitment too much to step into it lightheartedly and so far couldn't be convinced it was the right thing for me.

I do NOT though respect any empty and hollow shells pretending to be anything more than what they are: people sharing their lives for practical (in my eyes the wrong) reasons.

I am not sure if this made a lot of sense - and it was not meant to be an excuse for any of my past or future actions.

 

[Beebeeblue]

The bad thing about getting involved in a person who is cheating on his/her spouse, is that he/she could easily cheat on you too!

Heed this advice Patyrn. She is speaking much of the truth. Its not worth getting invovled with a married person. All that happens is all three end up miserable in the end.

 

[Thumper]

I haven't exactly been a saint in my marriage but I don't think I am a "dick"....my only response is what CreamyLady said...maybe no justification, but I am not seeking to justify what I do or how I live. I care about the people in my life(past and present)...I only try to learn from every experience and take the good from it...no relationship is going to give you everything you need or want in life..to expect that is unfair to the other person...

Woody Allen once said "Marriage is the death of Hope"

I don't quite agree but I can see his point

If you can make the freindship thing work then do so....these are the things in life which teach us about ourselves..and it never stops.

 

[*Eve*]

I don't want to oversimplify the issue but the fact that he lied to his wife about you should tell you something about this guy. Are you positive that he and his wife are having problems. This could be something that he could just be telling you. I hope for your sake that he's not but I think that you can do way better than this guy.