Inspired by two other threads, what would you do?

[SeaCat]

Okay this is inspired by two other threads, one mine and one by R.Richard.

What would you do if your country was invaded? Would you fight back in a Geurrilla(sp) Style, or would you just roll over and hope the invaders went away? What methods would you use? How would you organise with others like you? How would you protect your group? How would you arm yourself?

Let's hear your thoughts. Come on you can even post some other questions on this subject.

Cat

 

[Guest]

i dont know and i hope to never know what i would do.

i can say that i would protect my own and if that meant fighting on my own turf, then yes i would...if it were just me? i dont honestly know what i would do. its a thought that has the ability to churn my stomach. but... it also made me pause and think about other countries who have seen this kind of war. it made me feel empathy for people who may not have had any say or choice in the matter...how they get through each day, just being happy to have made it through alive.

 

[SeaCat]

Let me add to the list. Other than not answering or replying to this thread.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

i dont know and i hope to never know what i would do.

i can say that i would protect my own and if that meant fighting on my own turf, then yes i would...if it were just me? i dont honestly know what i would do. its a thought that has the ability to churn my stomach. but... it also made me pause and think about other countries who have seen this kind of war. it made me feel empathy for people who may not have had any say or choice in the matter...how they get through each day, just being happy to have made it through alive.

Yes it is a hard question to answer on so many levels. It requires more than a little thought and soul searching, especially if you want to be honest about your answer.

Cat

 

[starrkers]

We, as a family, have a plan for this exact eventuality. It involves my immediate family and my husband's brother and his family.
Rolling over and hoping they go away is definitely not part of that plan.
I have no intention of expounding it here. We take it seriously.

 

[Remec]

Okay this is inspired by two other threads, one mine and one by R.Richard.

What would you do if your country was invaded? Would you fight back in a Geurrilla(sp) Style, or would you just roll over and hope the invaders went away? What methods would you use? How would you organise with others like you? How would you protect your group? How would you arm yourself?

Let's hear your thoughts. Come on you can even post some other questions on this subject.

Cat

I think it all depends on the nature of the invasion force--size, weaponry, skill level, morale. There's just so many variables to consider before making up one's mind as to how and whether to formulate a resistance movement.

I would be more inclined to be a Sons of Liberty, Molly Maguires sort of organization where the members are functioning community leaders by day and meet in small cells to perform acts of sabotage and retribution by night. If things begin going badly, then we go off into the Appalachians or the Great Dismal Swamp. (I'll need some people with better survival/camping/Scouting skills than me, though. I've forgotten too much of that sort of thing.)

I would lean towards easily obtained and wielded melee weapons---baseball bats top the list for me, followed by staves and hockey sticks (field hockey moreso than ice, they've always seemed more substantial).

 

[Liar]

"Would you fight back in a Geurrilla(sp) Style, or would you just roll over and hope the invaders went away?"

Like the last time you asked "what would you do" (...if someone kicked down your door, I think it was), you present the question as if there's only one available answer, and the only other option is to "roll over".

Makes it hard to take the question seriously.


I suck at fighting. So no, I wouldn't fight guerilla style. That would only get me killed and put those around me in more danger.

I'd find ways to contribute with something I don't suck at. The most effective way for me to makea difference would be through words. I know how they're made, how they travel and which ones will have what effect on people. Not entirely and all the time, but I like most people here, handle words better than your average Joe Schmoe - that's why I'm a writer. And I'm media savvy, having played the newsstream game for years for a living. That's my strength, waving a gun around, isn't.

So I'd attempt to exit the country, find a reasonably safe spot, and begin working international opinion and supplying those who wave guns better than me with relevant information through all possible channels.

 

[rgraham666]

A guerilla style campaign.

Most especially, I'd goad the enemy into the most repressive methods possible. Make them regard every Canadian as their enemy, something to be derided and destroyed. These methods will push most Canadians except the most servile into my camp. They'll be given the choice of dying with steel in their backs or in their teeth.

Weapons will at first be homemade. Molotov cocktails and that. I'll start organizing home manufactured weapons immediately. Sten guns may not be as effective as M-16s but they can be made in a basement or small machine shop. RPGs, mines and booby traps can be made there as well.

I'll take advantage of a little known fact about Canada, it's heavily urbanized. Urban fighting will reduce the huge technological advantage of any enemy.

I'd organize a cell system similar to that in Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. Three dimensional, allowing cross communication between cells. This will limit damage when cells are compromised.

Communications would mostly be through the Internet. I'd use a 'one book' system and use spreadsheets to send communiques.

As you can see, I've been thinking about this for a while.

I'd say more, but I'm traveling soon and don't want to say anything that might jeopardize my trip.

 

[SeaCat]

We, as a family, have a plan for this exact eventuality. It involves my immediate family and my husband's brother and his family.
Rolling over and hoping they go away is definitely not part of that plan.
I have no intention of expounding it here. We take it seriously.

A question lke this is always serious, and yet airing parts of the planning are useful. It allows others to see your ideas and exposes you to the ideas of others.

As for me? Yes I would fight, and yes I would use tactics I thought were acceptble to my aims.

Weaponry would at first be limited to what I have on hand. (Not enough but effective to gather what I need.) Weaponry would also be limited to what I need without excess. (If I did decide to have extra I would creat a cache away from where I live.)

Communications with others would be of a limited scope and would use the Cell System.

Cat

 

[elsol]

It would be beautiful.

A reason to ignore all rules of civilization and play by my own.

*quiiver*

Maybe Canada will invade us.

 

[only_more_so]

Let me be the first to say, WOLVERINES!

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I won't reveal specifics, but I have cutlery, and I know how to use it.

 

[SeaCat]

Let me be the first to say, WOLVERINES!

LOLOL

You saw that movie too huh? I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Cat

 

[WarLordwrites]

Okay this is inspired by two other threads, one mine and one by R.Richard.

What would you do if your country was invaded? Would you fight back in a Geurrilla(sp) Style, or would you just roll over and hope the invaders went away? What methods would you use? How would you organise with others like you? How would you protect your group? How would you arm yourself?

Let's hear your thoughts. Come on you can even post some other questions on this subject.

Cat

Greetings

While Red Dawn is one scenario and the Red Chinese crossing the Bering Strait to occupy Alaska before moving south another, the imposition of a fascist state can come from within.....

My response to this "new order" would realistically be nuanced by how my neighbors responded!

If my neighbors and friends give the imposed government legitimacy then my options are reduced. On the other hand, my neighbors' anger would open the door to active resistance.

How this active phase would look?

That depends entirely on the make up of the "occupiers" - their armaments equipment and tactics. Asymetrical warfare puts a premium on psychology over numbers or weaponry.

Given advantages of knowing the terrain and being part of the angered resisting (even if passively) population, I'd guess at an ability to inflict casulties over time that would bleed the bad guys.

Sucessfully...?!?

You have to tell me who they are and why they are "there"

Is "their" will to conquer greater than MINE to resist?

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

PS The seeds of several cool stories buried in this thread

 

[only_more_so]

LOLOL

You saw that movie too huh? I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Cat

BTW, I didn't mean to disrespect your thread. The thing is, that is basically the only image I have of the US getting invaded, that doesn't involve aliens or revolutionary war history. Well, maybe Canadian Bacon, but I don't think anyone would catch a reference to that one.

I really can't concieve of the US getting invaded. If I really think hard, maybe I could imagine a scenario, but it would take years to get to that point. And if I saw the signs pointing that way, I think I would move to Texas and buy a whole lot of guns.

Writing this out, reminds me of the conversation between Rick and the Germans in Casablanca:

Major Strasser: Are you one of those people who cannot imagine the Germans in their beloved Paris?
Rick: It's not particularly my beloved Paris.
Heinz: Can you imagine us in London?
Rick: When you get there, ask me!
Captain Renault: Hmmh! Diplomatist!
Major Strasser: How about New York?
Rick: Well there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade.

 

[SeaCat]

BTW, I didn't mean to disrespect your thread. The thing is, that is basically the only image I have of the US getting invaded, that doesn't involve aliens or revolutionary war history. Well, maybe Canadian Bacon, but I don't think anyone would catch a reference to that one.

I really can't concieve of the US getting invaded. If I really think hard, maybe I could imagine a scenario, but it would take years to get to that point. And if I saw the signs pointing that way, I think I would move to Texas and buy a whole lot of guns.

Writing this out, reminds me of the conversation between Rick and the Germans in Casablanca:

No disrespect at all. I can understand your comment. It is a hard concept to fathom mainly because it hasn't happened in many years. That doesn't man it can't happen on either a large or small scale. (Remember in Red Dawn they did push up through Texas. They didn't mention this in the movie but they did in the book.)

As has been mentioned at least once in this thread the type of defence/offense would be determined by the attackers. How they are organised, their type of occupation and their methods of operation. Their weapons don't matter as much as their support does.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

Greetings

While Red Dawn is one scenario and the Red Chinese crossing the Bering Strait to occupy Alaska before moving south another, the imposition of a fascist state can come from within.....

My response to this "new order" would realistically be nuanced by how my neighbors responded!

If my neighbors and friends give the imposed government legitimacy then my options are reduced. On the other hand, my neighbors' anger would open the door to active resistance.

How this active phase would look?

That depends entirely on the make up of the "occupiers" - their armaments equipment and tactics. Asymetrical warfare puts a premium on psychology over numbers or weaponry.

Given advantages of knowing the terrain and being part of the angered resisting (even if passively) population, I'd guess at an ability to inflict casulties over time that would bleed the bad guys.

Sucessfully...?!?

You have to tell me who they are and why they are "there"

Is "their" will to conquer greater than MINE to resist?

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

PS The seeds of several cool stories buried in this thread

I agree with some of your comments, and yet I do have to disagree with some of them. (Isn't that the way?)

While I do have a hard time seeing an invasion of the United States, I can see several plausible scenarios for it. As you said the imposition of an unfriendly government on us from the inside is just as plausible.

Your comment about thei tactics determining wether or not you would resist is something I would have to disagree with. It would however determine my own tactics.

Cat

 

[only_more_so]

I agree with some of your comments, and yet I do have to disagree with some of them. (Isn't that the way?)

While I do have a hard time seeing an invasion of the United States, I can see several plausible scenarios for it. As you said the imposition of an unfriendly government on us from the inside is just as plausible.

Your comment about thei tactics determining wether or not you would resist is something I would have to disagree with. It would however determine my own tactics.

Cat

I can't think of a plausible scenario myself, so I am curious as to what you came up with.

Canada and Mexico do not have the military to invade. It might sound like a joke, but the militia groups and random citizens with weapons would be able to hold off either country, if not invade in return. Not that I could see Canada trying to invade, or Mexico being organized enough to do so.

The big bully right now would be China. But China doesn't have a Navy worth speaking of, especially not compared to the US navy. Heck, China's navy would have a hard time getting past Japan. If they went nuclear with their attack on our navy, we would respond in kind. Without a navy there can be no invasion.

Russia and all the former soviet republics might be able to cobble together a navy that could threaten ours. But they have enough problems with their economies and populace that starting a land war would be suicidal.

Of course, the other question is why? I have an easier time believing that China could somehow sneak past our navy than I have believing they would try it in the first place.

 

[WarLordwrites]

I can't think of a plausible scenario myself, so I am curious as to what you came up with.

.

China!

Up through Western Siberia, across the Bering Strait into Alaska and down into the western United States. At the same time, their elite armored troops invade up from Mexico using pre-positioned equipment into Arizona and break out

Currently we are one of China's biggest markets. Shortly their internal consumption will far exceed ours. Then we are just another competitor for raw materials and a barrier to reunification of their rogue island.

Probable? Possible? Absolutely given the one child rule has resulted in a preponderance of males and the need to distract a populace from economic inequity of leadership making millions while they starve....

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

 

[WarLordwrites]

Your comment about thei tactics determining wether or not you would resist is something I would have to disagree with. It would however determine my own tactics.

Cat

Greetings

My ability to resist other than passively would be in direct proportion to my friends, neighbors and fellow citizens acceptance and assigning legitimacy to the "new fascists" Acceptance across a broad spectrum of the populace makes active armed resistance very difficult

My assumption is that such acceptance would not be forthcoming but Quisling and Vichy show that one should not assume too much.

After we established that my neighbors were sufficently angered by the occupation, we could begin the tactical assessment of passive, active, and armed resistance based largely on bad guy equipment and tactics

If the bad guys had not made enough "bad moves" to anger the populace there are of course ways to radicalize them by demonstating the occupiers reactions to resistance.

Given that the 'guerilla is a fish swimming in the sea' its a difficult task to take and hold ground when the natives hate you

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

 

[oggbashan]

The history of how the Germans behaved in occupied countries suggests that resistance would depend on how far the occupying force wanted the existing population to survive as economic units of the state.

In the ultimate, killing the whole population would be possible and armed resistance the only option. That would be futile against an enemy armed with weapons of mass destruction who doesn't care if the land is unsuitable for human occupation for some years.

If the occupier wants to take over the existing economic structure then passive and active resistance becomes possible ranging from working-to-rule and overt sabotage to random guerrila warfare. However the German SS response to assassination was the killing of large numbers of unrelated civilians - Lidice and Oradour-sur-Soane. Would you kill a bridge guard if 100 of your neighbours would die?

Resistance isn't a matter of black and white. It is a matter of shades of grey. How far would you go if your whole extended family would face excessive torture for any single act of resistance by you? He who has a wife and children has given hostages to fortune. An occupier would exploit that.

Afghanistan and Iraq show what is possible - but their arms, equipment and training come from outside the occupied country. They are facing 'democracies' that play by a set of rules. If they were facing a totalitarian state with no fear of external recrimination then their resistance might be universally fatal. The USSR in Afghanistan was playing by international rules. The massacres in Darfur and Rwanda were/are not constrained by any external forces.

Og

Og

 

[SeaCat]

The history of how the Germans behaved in occupied countries suggests that resistance would depend on how far the occupying force wanted the existing population to survive as economic units of the state.

In the ultimate, killing the whole population would be possible and armed resistance the only option. That would be futile against an enemy armed with weapons of mass destruction who doesn't care if the land is unsuitable for human occupation for some years.

If the occupier wants to take over the existing economic structure then passive and active resistance becomes possible ranging from working-to-rule and overt sabotage to random guerrila warfare. However the German SS response to assassination was the killing of large numbers of unrelated civilians - Lidice and Oradour-sur-Soane. Would you kill a bridge guard if 100 of your neighbours would die?

Resistance isn't a matter of black and white. It is a matter of shades of grey. How far would you go if your whole extended family would face excessive torture for any single act of resistance by you? He who has a wife and children has given hostages to fortune. An occupier would exploit that.

Afghanistan and Iraq show what is possible - but their arms, equipment and training come from outside the occupied country. They are facing 'democracies' that play by a set of rules. If they were facing a totalitarian state with no fear of external recrimination then their resistance might be universally fatal. The USSR in Afghanistan was playing by international rules. The massacres in Darfur and Rwanda were/are not constrained by any external forces.

Og

Og

All excelent points Og.

Yes the option of resitance is determined by the tactics given you by the ocupiers. What are they willing to do to occupy the area? What are they willing to do to keep you in thrall? And what are you willing to risk? Are you willing to risk everything you hold dear? No this is not limited to just your life but those of the people you hold closest.

Cat

 

[MagicaPractica]

I saw Red Dawn at a very impressionable age for me. I would definitely fight back but the resistance might take a more subversive nature, ala the WWII French resistance fighters. It would depend on the size of the invading force. The Big Empty is an interesting YA novel in this vein. The threat is actually internal.

 

[cloudy]

I don't see an invasion by another country as probable at all.

From within? It's already happening, it's just that most are just dumb sheep, either letting it happen without protest, or helping the damn people in power do their thing.

 

[poppy1963]

If there were foreign soldiers on my doorstep...in my city...occupying my homeland? I would use any means at my command to take back control of my country beginning with the least violent and progressing more if needed to regain my freedom from the occupiers. That's what this country was founded upon...freedom from oppression...and I do NOT begrudge any other country's citizens for doing the same.

Now when we speak of Iraq, there are two wars and many agendas there. That's why for several years I argued to keep separate the idea of the "resistance" and the "terrorists"...to no avail mostly...but nonetheless these are very different animals. They are hard to tell apart unfortunately but it is quite important to continue to try to tell them apart.

I actually think that might be going better these days...I haven't been hearing things like: KILL ALL MUSLIMS! or "We should just go in and carpet bomb the whole area to smithereens."

I fully understand "the resistance" in that country in as much as I would take my stand with the same group here if I faced what they do there each day.