Info sought on Novels & Novellas

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

I’m working on a story that I expect to be long, and not easily broken into chapters. Also, as currently mapped out, the story’s denouement emerges from an event early in the story, so it’s best for the early event to be relatively fresh in the reader’s mind, and not something s/he struggles to recall from several chapters ago. Thus, I’m considering putting this in the Novels and Novellas category, where I’ve never before posted.

Can anyone share experience with N&N, either as a writer or as a reader? What I see posted there recently are all chaptered stories. This comes as no surprise. Has anyone posted an entire story there in one piece? If so, what do you think of the results? Also, just to get a range of opinion, where do you set the line between novella and something smaller (novelette, short story, whatever)? Over the years I’ve seen a variety of thresholds (17.5k, 30k, 50k). What might a Lit reader think is the dividing line, as translated into reading time commitment?

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=5116173&page=submissions

 

[oggbashan]

I have posted chaptered stories and complete works as Novels and Novellas.

As far as I can see it didn't make much difference to the views, votes or comments on either version in what is a less popular category.

Readers seem quite happy to accept very long stories in other categories too so I would only use novels and novellas now if a story crossed several categories.

 

[NotWise]

I’m working on a story that I expect to be long, and not easily broken into chapters. Also, as currently mapped out, the story’s denouement emerges from an event early in the story, so it’s best for the early event to be relatively fresh in the reader’s mind, and not something s/he struggles to recall from several chapters ago. Thus, I’m considering putting this in the Novels and Novellas category, where I’ve never before posted.

Can anyone share experience with N&N, either as a writer or as a reader? What I see posted there recently are all chaptered stories. This comes as no surprise. Has anyone posted an entire story there in one piece? If so, what do you think of the results? Also, just to get a range of opinion, where do you set the line between novella and something smaller (novelette, short story, whatever)? Over the years I’ve seen a variety of thresholds (17.5k, 30k, 50k). What might a Lit reader think is the dividing line, as translated into reading time commitment?

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=5116173&page=submissions

I have one story in N&N. It's just under 30K words and was well-received, but it's my least-viewed story.

The category isn't there just to hold long works. You can put long stories into any category. Novels and Novellas is there for stories with "a broader scope," which I take to mean that they aren't easily pigeonholed. I didn't put my story there because of its length. I put it there because I had a hard time finding another place to put it.

I don't know what lengths are used for different stories. I do know that when I read on Lit, something over three pages isn't a short story to me.

 

[SimonDoom]

The biggest problem with the Novel and Novellas category is that it doesn't flag what the primary erotic interest of the story is, and that's the thing that draws the most readers. Readers come to Literotica looking for stories based on their erotic interests. The "Novel" category doesn't tell them anything.

You can find a lot of very long stories, of novel length, that have done well posted in various categories.

 

[SamScribble]

Recently, I had a long chat with a ‘dead trees’ publisher about story lengths in this largely digital age. Her feeling was that a well-crafted short story should still not exceed 3,000 words. A novella should be between 15,000 and 40,000 words. (Quite a span there.) And north of 60,000 words is novel territory.

She also expressed the view that perhaps the biggest fault with many of the manuscripts she and her editors saw with more than 2,500 / 25,000 / 80,000 words was ‘self-indulgent flab’. Of course, she was talking mainly about stories that might eventually end up on paper. She also acknowledged that there are readers ‘who wouldn’t recognise flab if it jumped up and bit them on the bum’.

Here on Lit, many flabby stories seem to end up with surprisingly high scores. ('Never mind the quality, feel the width.') If you are satisfied that your 30k-word (or whatever) story is tight – and it fits into one of the main categories – I, personally, would be tempted to post it there. But that’s just my thought.

 

[ElectricBlue]

What's the primary erotic theme? Post in that category. As Simon says, Novels and Novellas isn't a kink category, it's a bit of a nothing zone.

Go to where your audience is. Novels and novellas are in every category. I suspect the N&N category is a legacy thing set up right at the start, when Laurel and Manu thought most stories would be short and longer works the exception. That's no longer the case.

 

[KeithD]

I put a twenty-one chapter novel in Novels under my sr71plt account because it covered nearly all of the categories. It's done well, with half of the chapters registering hot and some 24,000 readers. The comments were favorable. I put it there because of the multiple chapters, though, not because I was maneuvering for the most reads/votes/comments or anything else I could get.

The work is titled Wolf Creek here. It was published as Raven Possession, and incorporates "The Photograph."

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GzkhfrsjL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

[SimonDoom]

Recently, I had a long chat with a ‘dead trees’ publisher about story lengths in this largely digital age. Her feeling was that a well-crafted short story should still not exceed 3,000 words. A novella should be between 15,000 and 40,000 words. (Quite a span there.) And north of 60,000 words is novel territory.

She also expressed the view that perhaps the biggest fault with many of the manuscripts she and her editors saw with more than 2,500 / 25,000 / 80,000 words was ‘self-indulgent flab’. Of course, she was talking mainly about stories that might eventually end up on paper. She also acknowledged that there are readers ‘who wouldn’t recognise flab if it jumped up and bit them on the bum’.

Here on Lit, many flabby stories seem to end up with surprisingly high scores. ('Never mind the quality, feel the width.') If you are satisfied that your 30k-word (or whatever) story is tight – and it fits into one of the main categories – I, personally, would be tempted to post it there. But that’s just my thought.

Everything you say makes perfect sense in the mainstream world of publishing, but it doesn't seem to apply to erotic stories. I think that's because readers of erotic stories are looking for something different from what, say, the readers of New Yorker stories are looking for, and 3,000 word stories don't scratch their itch. You could call it flab, I guess, but I think it's something else. There's a certain pace and length that makes an erotic story satisfying. For most readers, that seems to be over 7,000 words. Most successful erotic stories have a substantial buildup, and then a good sex scene. Not true of all, of course. These are observations, not rules. But I think they hold true for a lot of readers.

 

[SamScribble]

Everything you say makes perfect sense in the mainstream world of publishing, but it doesn't seem to apply to erotic stories. I think that's because readers of erotic stories are looking for something different from what, say, the readers of New Yorker stories are looking for, and 3,000 word stories don't scratch their itch. You could call it flab, I guess, but I think it's something else. There's a certain pace and length that makes an erotic story satisfying. For most readers, that seems to be over 7,000 words. Most successful erotic stories have a substantial buildup, and then a good sex scene. Not true of all, of course. These are observations, not rules. But I think they hold true for a lot of readers.

I think you may be right, Simon. I guess I'm just someone who finds tight writing sexy.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think you may be right, Simon. I guess I'm just someone who finds tight writing sexy.

And you're not wrong. It's a little odd how long "short" stories are here at Literotica, and the aversion readers seem to have toward stories that are normal length by normal short-story standards. It just seems to be the way it is here, for whatever reason.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think you may be right, Simon. I guess I'm just someone who finds tight writing sexy.

In Australia, Sam, someone too keen to get a quick result is known as a Victa. A range of two stroke lawn mowers, don't you know .

I think that's a key difference - erotica needs to include time, and there's a good reason for that. Especially as one gets older.

 

[Bramblethorn]

In Australia, Sam, someone too keen to get a quick result is known as a Victa. A range of two stroke lawn mowers, don't you know .

I think that's a key difference - erotica needs to include time, and there's a good reason for that. Especially as one gets older.

Yep. In erotica as in bed, I've rarely had complaints for taking my time.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

What's the primary erotic theme? Post in that category. As Simon says, Novels and Novellas isn't a kink category, it's a bit of a nothing zone.

Go to where your audience is. Novels and novellas are in every category. I suspect the N&N category is a legacy thing set up right at the start, when Laurel and Manu thought most stories would be short and longer works the exception. That's no longer the case.

The sex is vanilla hetero among young American singles, and I don't want it doomed to Erotic Couplings, so I may have to throw it in Romance and hope for the best. The main distinction is that the main character has some pleasure-interference issues, allergies and sensitivities and such. Since you asked.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The sex is vanilla hetero among young American singles, and I don't want it doomed to Erotic Couplings, so I may have to throw it in Romance and hope for the best. The main distinction is that the main character has some pleasure-interference issues, allergies and sensitivities and such. Since you asked.

Erotic Couplings isn't so bad. Several of my best received stories went there and did okay. It's not the worst category I've run stories in.

 

[oggbashan]

In Australia, Sam, someone too keen to get a quick result is known as a Victa. A range of two stroke lawn mowers, don't you know .

I think that's a key difference - erotica needs to include time, and there's a good reason for that. Especially as one gets older.

In Palm Beach, North of Sydney, the Victa owner built a weekend cottage in 1959. It is a frying pan shaped plan with the handle leading back to the Barrenjoey road. The pan is an open-air swimming pool with a glass bottom above the main living room. Beyond the pan is the helicopter landing pad and the lift to the lower floors. At the bottom, on Pittwater, there is a seaplane hanger and a jetty for the motor yacht. It cost five million Australian pounds in 1959.

But the swimming pool leaked into the living room...

 

[ChloeTzang]

And you're not wrong. It's a little odd how long "short" stories are here at Literotica, and the aversion readers seem to have toward stories that are normal length by normal short-story standards. It just seems to be the way it is here, for whatever reason.

Correlate it to how long it takes a 50 year old guy to read and jerk off and you’ve got your ideal length for a short Literotica story. 3000 words doesn’t cut it for that unless the guy is a really slow reader. It’s the KISS rule here, guys. We know what Literotica stories are here for. If you want some empirical confirmation, start reading and whacking for yourself and see how many pages you need. Lol it is a bit obvious. I asked my husband and he said three pages without blushing, but he was a Literotica reader before I met him.

As far as the OPs question, put it in the category that fits. I have 130k word story in First Time somewhere near #2 in the HoF and a couple more in there that are 80k words. 50k is my idea of a short story.

 

[SimonDoom]

Correlate it to how long it takes a 50 year old guy to read and jerk off and you’ve got your ideal length for a short Literotica story. 3000 words doesn’t cut it for that unless the guy is a really slow reader. It’s the KISS rule here, guys. We know what Literotica stories are here for. If you want some empirical confirmation, start reading and whacking for yourself and see how many pages you need. Lol it is a bit obvious. I asked my husband and he said three pages without blushing, but he was a Literotica reader before I met him.

.

I think this is definitely part of it, but it doesn't explain why 6 to 8 page stories are so popular, because in stories that long a good deal of the material is usually not pure stroke material. Readers -- many readers, anyway -- like buildup in erotic stories. They like plenty of teasing and titillation before getting to the act. I think part of it is that for many readers a story is more erotic if the reader feels invested in the character who is doing sexy things, and a longer story does more to invest the reader in the character.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think this is definitely part of it, but it doesn't explain why 6 to 8 page stories are so popular, because in stories that long a good deal of the material is usually not pure stroke material. Readers -- many readers, anyway -- like buildup in erotic stories. They like plenty of teasing and titillation before getting to the act. I think part of it is that for many readers a story is more erotic if the reader feels invested in the character who is doing sexy things, and a longer story does more to invest the reader in the character.

There's one fifty year old who gets it.

Shout out to Chloe for pointing out the ancientness of her colleagues. Your times a comin', girl .

 

[NotWise]

The advice here is really useful - thanks to everyone who contributed two years and more ago!
My current story is likely to be 60k plus words but I’m planning on serialising it as the plot and structure lend themselves to this.
I‘m concerned about pace in the book. Because it is longer, I have spent more time on characterisation than I would for a short story and I’m worried the reader will lose interest If there’s not rampant shagging on every page. Comments above address this to some extent but any further thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Pacing isn't just about sex.

I've heard others advise that there should be sex in every chapter. I don't disagree, but I don't think it's a requirement either. I had a fairly long series here (since taken down) that didn't include sex in every chapter, and the readers didn't complain.

Even in erotica, the need for pace can be satisfied by moving the story forward. Sex is optional.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The advice here is really useful - thanks to everyone who contributed two years and more ago!
My current story is likely to be 60k plus words but I’m planning on serialising it as the plot and structure lend themselves to this.
I‘m concerned about pace in the book. Because it is longer, I have spent more time on characterisation than I would for a short story and I’m worried the reader will lose interest If there’s not rampant shagging on every page. Comments above address this to some extent but any further thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Oyster River

30k+ words, no sex until page seven, 4.82 rating.