Info-dump

[yowser]

Yep. It is "The Autobiography of a Flea." My bad. I was busy thinking of Annette Haven's pounding the bed near the end of the film and sending a monk away, saying (something like) "Not you! I want the other monk. The one with the big cock!"

Not to be confused with John Donne's poem 'The Flea.'

 

[HopelessDreams]

Literotica's how-to guides for authors generally advise against having info dumps about a character's appearance (or about the backstory) at the beginning of the story, so I've tried to follow that advice. But, there was one story for which that info felt important enough for me to include and it didn't seem to fit as well anywhere else. In fact, my highest-rated story (that wasn't a sequel or prequel) broke both of these guidelines. (It currently has a score of 4.70.) It also has the second-highest number of ratings and favorites out of all my stories. Maybe the people who had the least initial interest clicked away when they saw a description that they felt was too lengthy for them to read, leaving the ones who were more likely to give a high rating to read to the end. But, that story also didn't seem to get an unusually high ratio of back-clicks. Maybe describing a plant girl from a post-human future was different enough to keep many of my readers interested.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is what I do. There probably are readers who like to be spoon-fed from the beginning, though. Different strokes for different folks (and I leave them to it).

I often wonder about this. Do readers like/prefer it this way, or do they just accept it and not know better? A lot of Lit stories DO seem to start this way (e.g. "Let me tell you about my hot wife. She has . . . . blah blah"). And a lot of Lit readers seem to be perfectly Okey Dokey with that. But I can't help but think they'd like the story even MORE if the beginning was handled more artfully. Maybe I have more faith in Lit readers than I should, but I tend to think a little more artfulness always is a good thing, even with readers who don't require much of it.

 

[HeyAll]

Opening a story is an art. Info dumps are amaturish. But if there are complex things happening, they feel necessary.

When I write a story, I think I spend most of the time working and reworking the opening paragraphs.

 

[HopelessDreams]

I often wonder about this. Do readers like/prefer it this way, or do they just accept it and not know better? A lot of Lit stories DO seem to start this way (e.g. "Let me tell you about my hot wife. She has . . . . blah blah"). And a lot of Lit readers seem to be perfectly Okey Dokey with that. But I can't help but think they'd like the story even MORE if the beginning was handled more artfully. Maybe I have more faith in Lit readers than I should, but I tend to think a little more artfulness always is a good thing, even with readers who don't require much of it.

I suspect that many readers want to be able to visualize the character anywhere they appear in the story, rather than wait.

(And in a few cases, they might also feel lost without knowing enough of the backstory at the beginning.)

 

[SimonDoom]

I suspect that many readers want to be able to visualize the character wherever they appear in the story, rather than wait.

(And in a few cases, they might also feel lost without knowing enough of the backstory at the beginning.)

I think you are right, for many readers. But I also think that in almost every case there's a more artful way to weave in the visual depiction of the character, or the backstory, than the beginning info-dump, and my guess is that most or all of those readers would, if given the choice, prefer the more artful method.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think this is personal preference as both a writer and a reader more than it is a rule. Write the way you want, read what you want and click off what you don't like. Its that simple.

I do love the pretentious snots trying to make this sound like its so awful and beneath them though. Self importance on a free writing site is always good for a laugh.

 

[KeithD]

I often wonder about this. Do readers like/prefer it this way, or do they just accept it and not know better? A lot of Lit stories DO seem to start this way (e.g. "Let me tell you about my hot wife. She has . . . . blah blah"). And a lot of Lit readers seem to be perfectly Okey Dokey with that. But I can't help but think they'd like the story even MORE if the beginning was handled more artfully. Maybe I have more faith in Lit readers than I should, but I tend to think a little more artfulness always is a good thing, even with readers who don't require much of it.

Yes, I've gotten some feedback that indicates that there are, indeed, readers who don't want to stretch to think about anything from a story. They want it all laid out for them from the beginning. They don't want to make the effort to figure anything out for themselves. I don't write for this kind of reader myself, but it's fine to me if this type of reader exists and others choose to write for them.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife. This particular dude was packing too, with jodhpurs wagging 'Stay Left' like a traffic sign and balls slapping free against his muscled thigh. His chiseled jaw as proud as an anvil and striking deep set blue eyes under a powerful brow, and his hands! Hands with such elegant fingers that now cradled the open pages of his Bible as he would any young ladies bottom as she vigorously rode his monstrous tool at the canter.

The young ladies in the village were all a gossip and dripped love juice in chapel, leaving their cloven stains of shame on the oaken pews. The chaplain's hooked nose was assailed by the honeyed nectar, pausing his sermon on Lot's wife to glare at the blushing young ladies for whom the evils of the flesh were all too evidently expressed.

Fuck, I'm onto something

https://c.tenor.com/tBaTSwIbqHAAAAAC/jessica-day-do-it.gif

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think you are right, for many readers. But I also think that in almost every case there's a more artful way to weave in the visual depiction of the character, or the backstory, than the beginning info-dump, and my guess is that most or all of those readers would, if given the choice, prefer the more artful method.

Some readers can manage a corn-flakes box, and want instructions all the way; others would prefer to go to a restaurant and eat a well cooked meal; or stay at home with wine and candles. You choose your readers by what you write.

 

[MadeleineSinha]

I like to start with a hook, usually a scene setter but sometimes it’s quite random. I want to get the reader invested in the narrative right away and “let me tell you about Lucy-Ann, she’s natural blonde, five three with rounded hips and a great set of tits” fails for me on a number of fronts.

The person described almost always sounds like a tall Scarlett Johansen which sounds too implausible from the kick off.
I try not to describe my characters too much, each reader can decide for themselves what Chris and Nicola or Matt and Milly or Louise, Jonny and Rich look like.

 

[SimonDoom]

Some readers can manage a corn-flakes box, and want instructions all the way; others would prefer to go to a restaurant and eat a well cooked meal; or stay at home with wine and candles. You choose your readers by what you write.

I see it a little differently. I like haute cuisine, but I also like hot dogs. You can always make a better hot dog. You don't have to say, "Well, it's just a hot dog, let's not bother."

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I think these intros probably work for people who are looking for a stroke, because they can immediately visualise who they’re wanking to. It’s usually terrible writing, but a lot of people aren’t here for literature.

As others have said, for me it’s a sign to click the back button.

 

[LegoHead]

Opening a story is an art. Info dumps are amaturish. But if there are complex things happening, they feel necessary.

When I write a story, I think I spend most of the time working and reworking the opening paragraphs.

From the opening Emergency Skin, by N.K. Jemisin

You are our instrument.

Beautiful you. Everything that could be given to you to improve on the human design, you possess. Stronger muscles. Finer motor control. A mind unimpeded by the vagaries of organic dysfunction and bolstered by generations of high-intelligence breeding. Here is what you’ll look like when your time comes. Note the noble brow, the classical patrician features, the lean musculature, the long penis and thighs. That hair color is called “blond.” [Please reference: hair variations.] Are you not magnificent? Or you will be, someday. But first, you must earn your beauty.

We should begin with a briefing, since you’re now authorized for Information Level Secret. On its face, this mission is simple: return to the ruined planet Tellus, from which mankind originates. When our Founders realized the world was dying, they built the Muskos-Mercer Drive in secret. Then our ancestors bent the rules of light and fled to a new world circling another sun, so that something of humanity—the best of it—would survive. We’ll use the MMD, much improved by our technorati over the years, to return to that world. The journey, from your perspective, will take days. When you return, years will have passed. How brave you are to walk in your forefathers’ footsteps!

No, there’s no one left alive on Tellus. The planet was in full environmental collapse across every biome when our people left. There were just too many people, and too many of those were unfit, infirm, too old, or too young. Even the physically ideal ones were slow thinkers, timid spirits. There was not enough collective innovation or strength of will between them to solve the problems Tellus faced, and so we did the only merciful thing we could: we left them behind.

Of course that was mercy. Do you think your ancestors wanted to leave billions of people to starve and suffocate and drown? It was simply that our new home could support only a few.

Tellus is nearly a thousand light-years from home, meaning that the light we receive from that world is hundreds of years old. We cannot directly observe it in real time—but we knew the fate that awaited it. Tellus is by now a graveyard world. We expect that its seas have become acidic and barren, its atmosphere a choking mix of carbon dioxide and methane. Its rain cycle will have long since dried up. It will be terrible to walk through this graveyard, and dangerous. You’ll find toxic drowned cities, still-burning underground coal fires, melted-down nuclear plants. Yet the worst of it might be seeing our past greatness, on this world that was once so ideal. Mankind could build high into the sky, there where the gravity wasn’t as heavy. We could build all over the planet because it was not tidally locked. [Please reference: night.] Look at the names whenever you find them on buildings or debris. You’ll see the forebears of our Founder clans—all the great men who spent the last decades of that planet’s life amassing the resources and technology necessary to save the best of mankind. If for no other reason, this world should be honored because it nurtured them.

To ensure success, and your mental health during extended isolation, we have equipped you with ourselves—a dynamic-matrix consensus intelligence encapsulating the ideals and blessed rationality of our Founders. We are implanted in your mind and will travel with you everywhere. We are your companion, and your conscience. We will provide essential data about the planet as a survival aid. Via your composite, we can administer critical first aid as required. And should you suffer a composite breach or similar emergency, we are programmed to authorize adaptive action.

[Reference request denied.] You don’t need to know about that yet. Please focus, and limit your curiosity. All that matters is the mission.

You can’t fail. It’s too important. But rest assured: you have the best of us inside you, enveloping you, keeping you safe and true. You are not alone. You will prevail.

The novelette won a Hugo Award, an Ignyte Award, the Audie Award for Science Fiction, and was nominated for a Locus Award (Best Novelette).

I'm confident your opinion would have given their novelette immeasurable amounts of improvement. Perhaps the Locus Award wouldn't have alluded them had you been there to advise them on their amateurish approach to writing.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

From the opening Emergency Skin, by N.K. Jemisin



The novelette won a Hugo Award, an Ignyte Award, the Audie Award for Science Fiction, and was nominated for a Locus Award (Best Novelette).

I'm confident your opinion would have given their novelette immeasurable amounts of improvement. Perhaps the Locus Award wouldn't have alluded them had you been there to advise them on their amateurish approach to writing.

Note that the opening line is "You are our instrument"

That is a powerful opening line that grabs the attention. And is not description. The description follows.
By then my curiosity is already tickled "Whose instrument? What kind of instrument?"

 

[LegoHead]

Note that the opening line is "You are our instrument"

That is a powerful opening line that grabs the attention. And is not description. The description follows.
By then my curiosity is already tickled "Whose instrument? What kind of instrument?"

Firstly, you'll notice I addressed HeyAll, who's bibliography is loaded with stories written in a formulaic pattern that allows him what appears to be maximum output with little variance in story quality. He was addressing "info dumping" in general, but continuing....

"Powerful" is a stretch. Whatever power it does hold is quickly diminished by the descriptive blocks of info dumping that follow, of which it is a lesser part, which is then followed by more info dumping of the planet's history. "You are our instrument" does not have enough gravitas to carry the paragraphs that follow.

But, if you had read my post for what it was meant to be, you'd realize I was being sarcastic.

 

[NotWise]

Both of my "Third Ring" tales start with the same two-paragraph historical info-dump. Any more stories in the series will also have the "dump." It goes like this:

Urta was a verdant planet, but its most common proteins were toxic to humans. Colonists were genetically altered so they and their descendants could thrive on Urta’s native bounty. The scientists and engineers were supposed to be temporary residents on Urta. They were unaltered and survived there only because of the antidote they took every day.

Then came The Collapse. Communications with Earth ceased and the great ships came no more. The engineers and scientists knew that they would live only as long as their supply of antidote lasted, so they committed their remaining time to one purpose. They gave the colonists the knowledge and tools to sustain their culture. Then they were gone.

The stories are about the doomed scientists and engineers. They're successful, and feedback specifically on the "info dump" is good.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I think this is personal preference as both a writer and a reader more than it is a rule. Write the way you want, read what you want and click off what you don't like. Its that simple.

I do love the pretentious snots trying to make this sound like its so awful and beneath them though. Self importance on a free writing site is always good for a laugh.

We're all self-important here; we all think we're Melville except we add in the blowjobs. I mean, what did all those guys do on those long whaling voyages?

 

[gunhilltrain]

https://c.tenor.com/tBaTSwIbqHAAAAAC/jessica-day-do-it.gif

She looks familiar, but who is that?

 

[Bubo_bubo]

She looks familiar, but who is that?

Zooey Deschanel (here playing Jess in "The New Girl")

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Firstly, you'll notice I addressed HeyAll, who's bibliography is loaded with stories written in a formulaic pattern that allows him what appears to be maximum output with little variance in story quality. He was addressing "info dumping" in general, but continuing....

"Powerful" is a stretch. Whatever power it does hold is quickly diminished by the descriptive blocks of info dumping that follow, of which it is a lesser part, which is then followed by more info dumping of the planet's history. "You are our instrument" does not have enough gravitas to carry the paragraphs that follow.

But, if you had read my post for what it was meant to be, you'd realize I was being sarcastic.

Yes. It's probably my reading. Nothing at all to do with your writing.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Zooey Deschanel (here playing Jess in "The New Girl")

She's forty-two now, although I'm sixty-seven. Not that I'd have anything to bring to the table. I didn't know that she was named after Zooey in Franny and Zooey.

 

[HeyAll]

Firstly, you'll notice I addressed HeyAll, who's bibliography is loaded with stories written in a formulaic pattern that allows him what appears to be maximum output with little variance in story quality. He was addressing "info dumping" in general, but continuing....

"Powerful" is a stretch. Whatever power it does hold is quickly diminished by the descriptive blocks of info dumping that follow, of which it is a lesser part, which is then followed by more info dumping of the planet's history. "You are our instrument" does not have enough gravitas to carry the paragraphs that follow.

But, if you had read my post for what it was meant to be, you'd realize I was being sarcastic.

Link to your story

 

[HeyAll]

From the opening Emergency Skin, by N.K. Jemisin



The novelette won a Hugo Award, an Ignyte Award, the Audie Award for Science Fiction, and was nominated for a Locus Award (Best Novelette).

I'm confident your opinion would have given their novelette immeasurable amounts of improvement. Perhaps the Locus Award wouldn't have alluded them had you been there to advise them on their amateurish approach to writing.

This problem with your 2 examples on this thread is that they aren't info dumps. So it's being pretentious while being wrong at the same time.

Also, link to your story.

 

[gunhilltrain]

My summer lovin' story starts with an info dump, but I like how it turned out so I didn't see a reason to change it.

One person's info-dump is another person's reasonable explanation. As I suggested, some 19th Century authors did plenty of it, but so do some more modern authors. Pick any novel or short story and see how they did it.