Inauguration

[JackLuis]

Because it's not an easy decision to make. The important thing is that women can make that decision and that their suffering for it is minimal.

Robert A. Heinlein, who can hardly be called a liberal, summed up my opinion on the matter.

Heinlein was fairly pragmatic and was willing to face the world as it exists. He complained about a few things but held to his beliefs but didn't expect everyone to agree with him.

We could use a few more Heinleins on this board.

 

[Guest]

That's the way to celebrate 45 -48 million murdered babies on the anniversary of what allows those murders.

I liked the 150,000+ that marched to support life.

The "choice" is obvious:
Life or Death.

If abortion is so wonderful why do around 70% of the women having one require psycological counciling?

I wonder how many require it for carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term? Or any pregnancy, for that matter?

You have no clue as to the stresses, the changes, the pain that this ordeal puts on the female body.

But that's not what I wish to comment about.

Birth control. Preventing pregnancy. What's your suggestion?

I'm not bringing up condoms. That should be the male burden.

I'm talking about for women. What do you think we should do that is the least invasive, without surgery, without horrible side effects?

I understand from previous posts that you don't think women should be allowed to take the birth control pill.

So what do you suggest? Abstinence? That works so well for teens, doesn't it? Even rabid Christian teens.

How about the "rhythm" method? Counting the days, hoping you can estimate the exact time you ovulate, planning your sex lives around that week to ten days of maybe-can-get-pregnant . . .

The IUD? Ouch. Cramping, pain, and need a doctor to implant it.

I could go on, but I remain curious.

What should women do to prevent pregnancy?

 

[DesertPirate]

Try watching "The Silent Scream"

Abortion is another way of avoiding the consequences of what you do. The extremists don't want anyone held accountable for anything. You know the ones: "it's societies fault", "it's his environment", it's ...

Nobody should be held accountable for their own actions. The same folks behind the failed "pass em all" through school thing, where kids never learned to read.

 

[Guest]

Try watching "The Silent Scream"

Abortion is another way of avoiding the consequences of what you do. The extremists don't want anyone held accountable for anything. You know the ones: "it's societies fault", "it's his environment", it's ...

Nobody should be held accountable for their own actions. The same folks behind the failed "pass em all" through school thing, where kids never learned to read.

I've seen it.

And you didn't answer my question.

 

[cloudy]

I've seen it.

And you didn't answer my question.

He won't. He thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant, and doubtless thinks our education is a waste of time.

 

[Guest]

Try watching "The Silent Scream"

Abortion is another way of avoiding the consequences of what you do. The extremists don't want anyone held accountable for anything. You know the ones: "it's societies fault", "it's his environment", it's ...

Nobody should be held accountable for their own actions. The same folks behind the failed "pass em all" through school thing, where kids never learned to read.

Abortion is another way of avoiding the consequences of what WOMEN do.

It's perfectly fine for men to fuck around, of course.

Isn't that what you're saying?

 

[DesertPirate]

Abortion is another way of avoiding the consequences of what WOMEN do.

Isn't that what you're saying?

It's perfectly fine for men to fuck around, of course.

It takes two, men are equally guilty.

There is "Natural Family Planning" it is NOT the rythm method and achieves the same 98% reliability as the pill without the long term side affects.

Don't put words in my mouth, that's Cloudy's job!

 

[Guest]

It takes two, men are equally guilty.

There is "Natural Family Planning" it is NOT the rythm method and achieves the same 98% reliability as the pill without the long term side affects.

Don't put words in my mouth, that's Cloudy's job!

Explain natural family planning to me.

How is it different than the rhythm method?

 

[cloudy]

It takes two, men are equally guilty.

There is "Natural Family Planning" it is NOT the rythm method and achieves the same 98% reliability as the pill without the long term side affects.

Don't put words in my mouth, that's Cloudy's job!

Oh, don't worry...you make an ass out of yourself quite nicely without any help from me.

 

[DesertPirate]

Explain natural family planning to me.

How is it different than the rhythm method?

There is a similarity but this one works. There has been a lot of research to make it effective. I have not taken the class but will this summer.

Anything without those side effects is an improvement.

 

[Guest]

There is a similarity but this one works. There has been a lot of research to make it effective. I have not taken the class but will this summer.

Anything without those side effects is an improvement.

That's it? That's all you can tell me?

There has been research - but this one works???

Oh, for pete's sake!

What research?

Never mind. I'll go do a bit of research myself.

I do warn you though, DP. Before my hubby and I conceived our children, I did a great deal of research on family planning, on body cycles, on predicting ovulation and charting temperatures and the whole bit.

I know a great deal about it. At the time, I could usually tell within a few days when I was going to ovulate. Usually. Maybe. Sometimes.

Of course, sperm can live for days in the fallopian tubes. Days.

I just don't see how that sort of method could be 98% effective.

 

[DesertPirate]

That's it? That's all you can tell me?

There has been research - but this one works???

Oh, for pete's sake!

What research?

Never mind. I'll go do a bit of research myself.

I do warn you though, DP. Before my hubby and I conceived our children, I did a great deal of research on family planning, on body cycles, on predicting ovulation and charting temperatures and the whole bit.

I know a great deal about it. At the time, I could usually tell within a few days when I was going to ovulate. Usually. Maybe. Sometimes.

Of course, sperm can live for days in the fallopian tubes. Days.

I just don't see how that sort of method could be 98% effective.

Seriously, there is a class for couples and it has been proven 98% effective. Since I got clipped many years ago it has not been a concern of mine. I am going to learn.

 

[Guest]

Seriously, there is a class for couples and it has been proven 98% effective. Since I got clipped many years ago it has not been a concern of mine. I am going to learn.

It's not that effective. In theory yes, in practice no.

Three different sites I found say that in use there are 14 pregnancies out of 100 couples. Fourteen. Fourteen unwanted babies.

I'd send you the links but you wouldn't believe it, anyway.

But - as before, this discussion is over. This serves no purpose.

Peace.

 

[fifty5]

Seriously, there is a class for couples and it has been proven 98% effective. Since I got clipped many years ago it has not been a concern of mine. I am going to learn.

IFOB does work, but it's a permanent,long term decision. The "not this month/year" brigade need something reliable - and keep in mind that there are 365 nights in each year, so 98% isn't that good if you do it nightly: 7.3 pregnancies per year isn't a good outcome. The required effectiveness is more like 99.97% - 70 fold better than that.

 

[DesertPirate]

IFOB does work, but it's a permanent,long term decision. The "not this month/year" brigade need something reliable - and keep in mind that there are 365 nights in each year, so 98% isn't that good if you do it nightly: 7.3 pregnancies per year isn't a good outcome. The required effectiveness is more like 99.97% - 70 fold better than that.

But the pill comes in a tad under 98%

 

[Guest]

But the pill comes in a tad under 98%

You do tend to confuse theory with actual practice.

 

[DesertPirate]

You do tend to confuse theory with actual practice.

I notice you don't comment on the side effects.

 

[Guest]

I notice you don't comment on the side effects.

Well, having used both systems, one to avoid pregnancy and one to predict pregnancy, I think I'm fairly qualified to discuss them.

Unlike you.

The pill is easy to take. And 99.9% effective if you take it every day. There are side effects, of course, as with any hormonal regimen, but most occur in women after age 35 and in those who smoke. Many of the side effects - headache, weight gain, spotting between periods - happen during a normal cycle anyway. Without being on the pill.

Sex between couples can happen at any time.

The natural planning method. Well, you've immediately dumped a great deal more work onto the part of the woman. You'll need charts at your bedside and a thermometer.

The woman must wake up at the same time each morning and take her temperature before she moves her position. Temp is taking vaginally (could be orally or rectally), with a basal thermometer. Temp is charted. Cervical mucus is examined for thickness, opacity, stretchiness. And the results are charted.

You do this every morning until you notice a change in temperature - some women experience a drop in temp when they ovulate. But not all. Over several days if there is a .4 or more change you are probably ovulating. Maybe.

You do this for several months and you can get a fairly average idea of how your cycles run.

Of course, this does tend to limit the days in which you can have sex.

There's a solid week around possible ovulation that sex is cautionary or prohibited. Additionally, some women (or their partners) do not enjoy having sex while they are on their periods.

So - if you use this method, there are only about two weeks out of each month where it's possible to have vaginal sex.

The effectiveness, in theory, is in the low 90's. In practice it's in the low 80's.

Side effects? No hormones, and that's a good thing. But for the woman there is a great deal of paperwork, hassle, worry and sometimes abstaining from sex during the time that a woman is most aroused in her cycle.

But it's convenient for the guy.

 

[Elianna]

Well, having used both systems, one to avoid pregnancy and one to predict pregnancy, I think I'm fairly qualified to discuss them.

Unlike you.

The pill is easy to take. And 99.9% effective if you take it every day. There are side effects, of course, as with any hormonal regimen, but most occur in women after age 35 and in those who smoke. Many of the side effects - headache, weight gain, spotting between periods - happen during a normal cycle anyway. Without being on the pill.

Sex between couples can happen at any time.

The natural planning method. Well, you've immediately dumped a great deal more work onto the part of the woman. You'll need charts at your bedside and a thermometer.

The woman must wake up at the same time each morning and take her temperature before she moves her position. Temp is taking vaginally (could be orally or rectally), with a basal thermometer. Temp is charted. Cervical mucus is examined for thickness, opacity, stretchiness. And the results are charted.

You do this every morning until you notice a change in temperature - some women experience a drop in temp when they ovulate. But not all. Over several days if there is a .4 or more change you are probably ovulating. Maybe.

You do this for several months and you can get a fairly average idea of how your cycles run.

Of course, this does tend to limit the days in which you can have sex.

There's a solid week around possible ovulation that sex is cautionary or prohibited. Additionally, some women (or their partners) do not enjoy having sex while they are on their periods.

So - if you use this method, there are only about two weeks out of each month where it's possible to have vaginal sex.

The effectiveness, in theory, is in the low 90's. In practice it's in the low 80's.

Side effects? No hormones, and that's a good thing. But for the woman there is a great deal of paperwork, hassle, worry and sometimes abstaining from sex during the time that a woman is most aroused in her cycle.

But it's convenient for the guy.

Do you know how much I love you?

 

[Guest]

Do you know how much I love you?

 

[fifty5]

But the pill comes in a tad under 98%

98% of what?

98% of fucking-years without pregnancy is so much less than 98% of fucks!

 

[fifty5]

Well, having used both systems, one to avoid pregnancy and one to predict pregnancy, I think I'm fairly qualified to discuss them.

Unlike you.

The pill is easy to take. And 99.9% effective if you take it every day. There are side effects, of course, as with any hormonal regimen, but most occur in women after age 35 and in those who smoke. Many of the side effects - headache, weight gain, spotting between periods - happen during a normal cycle anyway. Without being on the pill.

Sex between couples can happen at any time.

The natural planning method. Well, you've immediately dumped a great deal more work onto the part of the woman. You'll need charts at your bedside and a thermometer.

The woman must wake up at the same time each morning and take her temperature before she moves her position. Temp is taking vaginally (could be orally or rectally), with a basal thermometer. Temp is charted. Cervical mucus is examined for thickness, opacity, stretchiness. And the results are charted.

You do this every morning until you notice a change in temperature - some women experience a drop in temp when they ovulate. But not all. Over several days if there is a .4 or more change you are probably ovulating. Maybe.

You do this for several months and you can get a fairly average idea of how your cycles run.

Of course, this does tend to limit the days in which you can have sex.

There's a solid week around possible ovulation that sex is cautionary or prohibited. Additionally, some women (or their partners) do not enjoy having sex while they are on their periods.

So - if you use this method, there are only about two weeks out of each month where it's possible to have vaginal sex.

The effectiveness, in theory, is in the low 90's. In practice it's in the low 80's.

Side effects? No hormones, and that's a good thing. But for the woman there is a great deal of paperwork, hassle, worry and sometimes abstaining from sex during the time that a woman is most aroused in her cycle.

But it's convenient for the guy.

Read "The British Museum is falling down" (IIRC) by David Lodge . That makes Sarah's point very well!

 

[Guest]

Read "The British Museum is falling down" (IIRC) by David Lodge . That makes Sarah's point very well!

That sort of charting works very well if you're trying to get pregnant, you know?

It gives you an optimum window of several days - it maximizes your efforts, so to speak.

But it's miserable to use for longer than a few months. Thankfully we never had to.

 

[rgraham666]

There's a term for people who use the rhythm method of contraception.

Parents.

 

[Guest]

There's a term for people who use the rhythm method of contraception.

Parents.

I know.