Immortality

Facing my Mortality

In my late teens, some thirty odd years ago, l lived away from home at University. I had an ordinary childhood; no real traumas, the usual family fights. Pretty normal, on the surface. After my first year I travelled in Europe for six weeks. When I came home, to where my parents lived, I discovered they had moved house, more than that, they had separated with a view to divorce.

It took me about a week to track down my Mother and to become embroiled in a fierce family feud, one sister taking my Mothers side, the other taking my Fathers side, both sides wanting my support to produce the weight in numbers. A week of this was more than I could stand; I left and have never seen one of them since.

This may seem to some to be an extraordinary thing to have done, to have continued doing. There were good reasons to me, then, and now. The family dispute brought into the open things that had never been discussed, they had been hidden from my self and my older sister. My Father came from the East End of London, he was a criminal, had served time in prison. I never remembered him from my childhood because he was not there. For many years, I assumed that my early memory had failed me; my earliest memory is from about the age of seven. I came to understand that I was unable to remember him because he played no part in my early life, and somehow that had wiped the rest of the memories from my early childhood.

The shock to me was profound, deep, and like most individuals of my star sign, when I make up my mind, it is set in stone.

Do I think about my parents? Yes, every day. I rarely think of my sisters.

Time moved on, I married, made my wife’s family my own, and lived a full and hectic life. My wife never once questioned my decision, I know she kept contact with my Mother for some time until her own parents’ ill health caused a whirlwind in our lives and they lost touch.

About seven months ago, I had to go into the city on business. Walking down the street, I suddenly was unable to breath, unable to move. I had a mild heart attack about a year previously, that had caused a rethink of our lives and I sold my business and moved to a less stressful lifestyle. My first instinct was that I was having a severe heart attack. In a flash I knew what was really happening, my Mother had died. At that moment, I came face to face with my mortality, I was not dying now, but I was going to.

It may sound absurd to suddenly realise that, of course I knew that we live and we die. I had seen enough death in my life; within a period of three months in 1985, we lost both of my wife’s parents to cancer, the year previously her aunt had died and in the following year an uncle and cousin, the latter whilst using the bathroom in our house.

None of these deaths ever raised the question of my own mortality.

Now I was transfixed to the spot, someone brought me a glass of water, offered to call an ambulance. Someone else brought a chair from a café and I sat on the pavement trying to control the emotional surges ripping through me. There were millions of images and messages in my head, random flashes of my life, other’s lives, doubts, fears, hope and love.

I am still to a very large extent trying to make some sense of it all.

How did this realisation manifest itself? Much of that is the usual stuff about living for the day, not putting off until tomorrow, achieve what you can in the time allotted, stop wasting time, etc.

Beyond that, I confronted my own sexuality.

I have never been a very sexual person, in the sense of having many partners or indeed experiencing many and varied sexual practices. I have always been a very sensual person. Now my head was full of the sex that I would not have because for me that time was past, past because I am simply not the type of person that goes looking for sexual relationships.

Whether that is loyalty or simply fear, I really do not know.

So, I did the rational (?) thing and decided to write a few stories in Lit. to explore this new sexuality – maybe this is just an old man pinning for his lost youth. I’m not entirely convinced that is the whole explanation. In writing about sex, I have come to understand more about how to love another person than I ever would have thought possible. That will sound odd to the strokers. But then I don’t really write strokers material.

Even that got me into hot water, I describe my characters too well, the object of my fantasy sexuality recognised her self. Anyone want to quote me odds on that happening? Wasn’t that remarkable really, my wife told her I was writing erotic stories, she did her own research. Hence the name change.

Rest assured, there is no damage done, just embarrassment, I could do with a red cheeked smiley just at this point.

There you have it. Confronting my mortality brought me face to face with my sexuality, amongst many other things. It also introduced me to writing; I have not written a story since the late 1960’s at school, if nothing else, it has given me a new focus for my remaining span, one that I fully intend to exploit.

As for my Mother, she did die; the day I got the ‘message’ was the day of her funeral. I am not as surprised by this ‘message’ as some of you may be, asking you to understand how this happens to me is asking you to take a leap in trust, suffice to say that from time to time I see things. Only once have I ever documented a ‘message’ and that was to someone on Lit., they confirmed a factual event I could not possibly have known, the following day.

Confused, I am. I’ll try to work it out through the writing.

I would still like to hear more from females particularly about the notion of immortality and bearing children, if you think this is absurd, please say so. It might stop me thinking about it.

NL
 
Wow.

Thanks for sharing all of that, Neon. I feel I know you even better now. You have had some very moving experiences in your life, and I can see that they have made you strong, even if you don't feel that way about yourself at times.

It's topics like this that make me look inward, at myself, and I thank you for that. I'll give some thought to your question of immortality and childbearing and give you a response at some point.

Lou :rose:
 
neonlyte said:
Immortality
How do we come to terms with our mortality? When did you become aware of your mortality? I don't mean necessarily the awareness of death that accompanies the loss of someone close. But the very personal awareness of your own mortality. How did that feel? How did you react? [/B]
I don't think I have yet.

We lost 3 of our 4 parents within 2 years (the other had gone before); the man I'd made friends with at school, who was my best man and vice versa, died years ago; and you may have read my thread elsewhere in the AH about George.

The penny really ought to drop, but somehow every time there were special circumstances that didn't apply to me.

I have had times of deep depression - one when Con (George's predecessor) went.  After holding his head as he went to sleep for the last time, I was sincerely jealous of the peaceful way that his problems had disappeared.

And still, though death haunts me every day, the penny still doesn't drop.

It haunts me ever since I took redundancy before the millenium.  That put paid to getting a sensible pension, so what'll happen if I don't die before that pension is my only income?

I also live with the contradictory fear that I will die before I get my leg over again.  (Mayhap daft, but not a joke.  My contemporaries may remember the old question, "What would you do if the 4-minute warning went?"  My answer was easy to give, but what if there wasn't a like-minded partner around?)

The penny has dropped far enough to realise that it's already too late for many of the things I used to know I could do, if I decided to - which is both the cause of at least one of those bouts of depression; and also why I submitted a story to Lit.

And yet... I make plans for the future in what seems a sure and certain knowledge that I'll be here to put them into action.

:confused:

f5 (going on f6)
 
My mortality. When I realized that I was getting close to turning 40, just 5 months away now. Most of my family has died in their early 60's.

What I began doing was became this dick slinger. As the saying goes "I want to come and go at the same time."

The closer I get to being 40, the wilder I've become. I still haven't had sex with a woman from India yet, but I've been hanging out in the foreign languages department with my eyes on the prize.

That sounds so morbid.
 
BlackSnake said:
My mortality. When I realized that I was getting close to turning 40, just 5 months away now. Most of my family has died in their early 60's.

What I began doing was became this dick slinger. As the saying goes "I want to come and go at the same time."

The closer I get to being 40, the wilder I've become. I still haven't had sex with a woman from India yet, but I've been hanging out in the foreign languages department with my eyes on the prize.

That sounds so morbid.


That sounds so forty, snake. :)
 
BlackSnake said:

The closer I get to being 40, the wilder I've become. I still haven't had sex with a woman from India

I didn't at 40.......oops was that out loud??:devil:
 
My mortality came crashing in around me (literally) a few years ago. But, it wasn't just my mortality, at the time it was also that of my unborn child. It couldn't have been anything but a miracle that saved the two of us that day. If you could see the pictures of the mangled car, you'd think the same.

For some time after, I was a nervous wreck (no pun intended). I was worried about myself, worried about my kids, etc. I have just recently begun to mellow out and not stress over that kind of stuff so much, but I am now more aware of how easily a life can be changed.
 
At age 76 I am defiantly aware of my mortality.

My only brother died at 5, a botched appendicitis diagnosis.

Everyone else in my ancestry has died in late sixties to mid seventies except for my father. He made it to 82.6. He had his final cardiac arrest Christmas night.

Statistically I am on the high end of the curve. Yes I am aware. I have looked the reaper in the eye several times; Two auto accidents, one emergency landing, several other non-vehicular accidents.

I have always lived my life with the understanding that death is inescapable. Heaven and hell are what we make for ourselves while we are here.
 
Viejo* (Old Man), it's good to see you back. At 57 I appreciate hearing from a 'senior'. Would you speak further on how you felt, or more importantly, thought about life and death ten years ago, twenty years ago, and how it might be different now.

best, Perdita

*Sp. term of endearment for an old man.
 
For public consumtion-.

My thoughts ten and twenty years ago were very much as they are today, I seldom think about it.

My wife and I went on a "Marriage Encounter" weekend twenty years ago this June, durring yhat weekend I faced my mortality and came away with a full realisation that life is temporary, we make our own heaven or hell by the way we treat others.

Neither I or my wife have any naging regrets to spoil our enjoyment of life. We have learned that "You can not love another if you do not love yourself."
 
Death has been around me a few times. I lost a little league teammate to a drowning at age 10, had a couple of high school classmates not make it to age 20. Growing in a family with a lot of military experience added to it.

Yet it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I confronted my mortality. My father-in-law died suddenly from a massive cardial infraction only a couple of months after my own father had his second triple bypass. He almost did not make it thru this one. Those two events have changed me dramatically.

I am much more family and personal-life focused now. In April 2002 I was much more concerned with my career. Now it is almost an afterthought. I had not written anything in at least ten years, and no prose (as opposed to songs/poetry) in almost twenty. Now I write a baseball blog in addition to Lit.

I honestly feel that I am happier despite the sure knowledge of my impending death. True, my career has suffered, but my marriage and relationship with my parents and children is stronger. I made the right choice.
 
Dear Neon...you have received a wide range of replies to your post...most subjective...as human nature is want to be...

and so it should be...however...as search for answers does not dwell only in a majority...those of similar feelings...'feelings'...a few thoughts were included...a few...

You already know there is no 'answer', to the question you pose, if, indeed, it is a question...

We are 'social' by nature and when the, 'bell rings'..it rings for all...

Perhaps an axiom of mine..stolen from someone else, no doubt,
'life is it's own purpose..." I would add to that, 'each' life serves it's own purpose...

Which means...in very vague terms, I know...that aside from disease and war and natural or man made disasters, we have but one life to live, each of us...and it 'should' be lived with full intensity...come what may...

I am heavily criticized in these forums, for reasons beyond this thread, but when all is said and done...we are..what we are, and what we have been and nothing more and nothing less.

All things begin and end....and so must we...to live in fear and doubt and apprehension..is no life at all...to be foolhardy and unconcerned is not a life of quality..somewhere in between, as perhaps Aristotle said, is, 'the golden mean', perhaps...

an old rock and roll song..'live hard, love hard and leave a beautiful memory...'

perhaps..but still...we are left with questions... regards... amicus
 
rgraham666 said:
... Death is the only statistical certainty after all.
What's statistically certain about death?

Fact: There are more homo sapiens alive now than have died throughout history and pre-history.

Corollary Since more than half of all human beings are alive at this moment, there is a less than 50% probability of a randomly selected human being dead, so how can death possibly be inevitable? On balance it looks less likely than life.
 
Aren't statistics fun?

If you want I can prove that Rhode Island is bigger than Alaska.

But, simply put, If you're alive, you're gonna die. No ifs, ands, buts or otherwises.

Christ I hate insomnia.
 
My thoughts on your postings.

Snoopdog
I don’t want to inquire into what caused your personal encounter with mortaility, on the rest of your comments, I think you are mistaken, you are thinking beyond the border every time you write. In your case, working into a different language adds a dimension to your abilities. I know you were talking about the border confronting death, what you do now, will remain beyond that border.

Liar
On the one hand you show a laissez-faire attitude to mortality, on the other, your are pissed at your self for not making the most of your time. How do you explain that, given the close shaves of your youth?

Raphy
It looks like you have it worked out for you, though your writing reveals a side of you deeper and more complex than your posts admit.

Tatelou
I have never confronted the accident form tragedy in the way you (and some others) have mentioned. I don’t know if or how that may have changed my views, but can understand the utter waste that must accompany such an event. In the early 70’s, up London with friends at the height of the IRA bombing campaign, there was a night when 7 bombs went off over the space of an hour, each was behind us, where we had been minutes before, we went into a pub at Charing Cross and got pissed.

Kid’s see things with such clarity. Now she’s 24 and starting to talk to me like she’s my Mum!

Abstruse
That is an uplifting tale pulled from disaster, better to remember with joy and pleasure, every time.

Sshafer
I commented on your original post, your second is just as valid. Just to clarify, confronting my mortality has nothing to do with my death, and everything to do with my life. I do not fear death, I fear not making the best use of the time I have. I fully expect to meet Perdita’s family in spirit and hosts of others.

Perdita
We have spoken of this. We know where we stand, don’t forget your gift to the living.

f5
Phew… I don’t know what to say. I guess, don’t think too deeply about it, it will find you when its ready; keep executing the plan.

BlackSnake
Never understood the number thing though have friends who have acted as you. A close male friend humped over forty by buying himself a sail boat and renamed it Oblivion, he is 50 next month, we will be sailing for the day, he will push us and the boat to its limits, my job is to get him home safely to his wife.

Crimson
It is so strange what you forget. We survived a bad car crash three months before our daughter was born, the guy coming toward us had a heart attack, swung across the road and hit us head on. This was 25 years ago, I can’t remember when I last thought about it, your post reminds me just how long it took us to recover at the time, no major injuries but I clearly recall the euphoria of the escape and the subsequent knee trembling shock of the accident.

The_old_man
Defiant awareness sounds ideal! If you can, listen to Sub Joes taped words from his father, it is higher up the thread. I wish I’d had the perception to record my Father-in-Laws wisdom.

Your words ‘You can’t love another if you don’t know how to love yourself’ for me have always gone hand in hand with ‘To know how to give love, you need to know how to receive love’.

Belegon
Would the world be different if we all made your choice at an earlier age?

Amicus
As you say, ‘ we have but one live to live…come what may…’

Snooper
Aren’t you supposed to be researching Mexico?

I would like to recount for you an exercise Green_Gem communicated to me off board.
Take a ribbon, seven feet (or metres) long, representing your three score years plus ten.
Cut away the part equal to your current age, cut from the remainder the time you will spend, sleeping, cut from the remainder the time you will spend, eating, travelling to work, cut from the remainder the time you spend doing the periphery things associated with your life. The frightening small piece left is your time – use it well.

Edited to add - don't do this if you are over 50, I can't be responsible for the consequences.

Thus far it is a 70/30 Male/Female response rate – my instinct tells me this the reverse of the majority of AH postings.

NL
 
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neonlyte said:
My thoughts on your postings.
Raphy
It looks like you have it worked out for you, though your writing reveals a side of you deeper and more complex than your posts admit.

Noo, it's all a big lie, I tell you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I'm really as shallow as a baby pool and as easy to read as a 3rd grade textbook!

:D
 
raphy said:
Noo, it's all a big lie, I tell you. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I'm really as shallow as a baby pool and as easy to read as a 3rd grade textbook!

:D

Yeh, but you can drown in a baby pool and I still can't understand 3rd Grade French.

;)

NL
 
neonlyte said:
<snip>
The female birth/immortality relationship opens a vast area, one that I would like to understand, I am a Father and know the relationship between Mother and Child is generally different from the relationship between Father and Child, not at the obvious nuturing/child bearing level.

<snip>

NL

Hi Neon,

You wanted some female's perspectives on the whole birth/immortality relationship, and I have thought long and hard about this, and not sure I do have much of a persepctive on this.

I do think I became more aware of my own mortality when I had my first child. I marvelled at her birth, you know, the usual stuff, "She's a little miracle, perfect in every way," and I do remember being so proud, for making this little miracle, with some help from hubby, of course. But, also, mixed in with those joyous emotions were ones of fear.

What if something happened to me?

I now had this little baby, who relied on me, and it hit me as one hell of a responsibilty. I wasn't just Katie anymore. I had a child, and that child was part of me. I felt her grow inside me, loving it every time she kicked and shifted around. And, the sheer love I felt for her, instantly, was over-whelming. As soon as I had her I knew I'd do anything to protect her, even sacrifice my own life. Btw, I felt all the same emotions when I had my second daughter, but they weren't as new and surprising to me.

For the first time in my life I was actually afraid of dying. I was afraid of going out one day and being involved in an accident, and never being there for my girls again. Never watching them grow, succeed in life, get married, have children of their own. That's what I meant by fear, above.

So, no, for me, I don't feel kind of "immortal" for having born children, I feel vulnerable.

Yes, I do feel that a part of me will live on, after I have gone, but I don't want to go anywhere, at least for quite a while yet, anyway.

I hope that's the kind of information and feelings you were after. I find it very hard to write down exactly how I feel about this. It quite honestly does upset me to think about dying and leaving my children without me.

Lou
 
Tatelou,

Thank for replying so honestly about this, I am truely sorry if it caused you distress, that is the last thing I would want to do. :rose:

It may be within the distress factor that has limited the resonse to this aspect of my original question, if I had thought more about it, perhaps the question could have been framed a little differently.

Your reply is similar to a couple I have received off board, it is clear to me that this is a very difficult area for women to discuss, it brings with it hues of emotional complexity almost impossible to describe.

Yours, and others, willingness to write about this, has been extremely useful in understanding my own position in all of this, for that, each of you have my eternally thanks.

Thank you Lou :heart:
 
Neon,

Thanks for your concern, sweetie, but it's ok. It's not something I do like to dwell on, because I just want to get on and enjoy life - making the most of it in every way possible, but it is something that does sit in the back of my mind.

It doesn't hurt to have a reality check every once in a while.

Lou :heart:
 
neonlyte said:
Liar
On the one hand you show a laissez-faire attitude to mortality, on the other, your are pissed at your self for not making the most of your time. How do you explain that, given the close shaves of your youth?
Lassie Fairy? Please, I'm a simple man, who barely masters the English language, don't go get all exotic on me. :)

Well, seriously, I don't see any contradiction here. Death does not become me. The way life slips through my fingers does.

#L
 
No one I’m close to has died (touch wood). Neither have I faced death in the eye, or had any life changing experiences. The idea that I’m going to die doesn’t overly bother me in general, although I do sometime fear for my life – eg when flying.

What gets me is: what am I supposed to be doing with the time I’ve been given? I envy those people that have it all sorted out, the kind of people that can believe in God, and that’s the whole issue sorted out.

I waste so much time wondering what I’m supposed to be doing with my life. Even the most basic of convictions seem to have a tenuous link with reality. Sometimes I think it’s important to be a good person – but then I realised that ‘good’ is subjective. Other times I think happiness is the thing to strive for – but then I just end up chasing rainbows, because happiness is such a slippery little beast. Maybe all you need is love, maybe it’s easy, but I don’t want to be shot like John Lennon, and I don’t even know what love is. It’s just a game to me. Perhaps living in the moment is the answer, as all time is eternally present, but the effort involved in this seems too time consuming. I feel like I’m having a permanent mid-life crisis in my early twenties.

Candide, by Voltaire, makes the best attempt I’ve come across at understanding life. He spends the whole story rushing hither and thither, going on the grandest of adventures and meeting some fabulous characters, but never quite finding what he’s looking for, even when he finds the love of his life. At the end however, some old geezer tells him to tend his garden. I found this quite profound, but I don’t know why; I think perhaps the key to immortality is gardening. Which is what I’ve been doing today, coincidentally.

Am I alone in feeling utterly befuddled with life? Perhaps it’s because of where I am in my life. I think I need some sense of purpose that goes beyond making optimal life style choices. I think perhaps the way to achieve this is through arbitrarily pointless endeavours…Ah fuck, I dunno…

Good thread btw, very thought provoking.
 
dirtylover
Thank you for you thoughts.

Gardening is a form of communion with the natural cycle of things, maybe that was Voltaires thought, must confess, it never much appealed to me though for many years I idealised about having a place in the country, grow my own veg, run a few chickens (and geese).

I think the point of pointless endevours is to get a few under your belt, only then does the direction begin to show itself.

Confusion is not all bad, it is just a place on the map.

NL
 
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