I'm very new dom, confused about Rewards, esp vs Pain.

[Sloely]

Hi, so I posted a while ago about my new relationship with an experienced sub, while I'm completely inexperienced. https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=371716

Anyway, I've got some new questions.

I'm extremely new to all of this, and am trying to learn to become a good dom for my sub. She's the one introducing me to the lifestyle, so it's a difficult situation. (From my research and just common sense, it doesn't seem to be the most obvious or common perspective, that of a new dom trying to learn from an experienced sub.)

Anyway, I'm a bit confused about Rewards vs Pain. She's mentioned the need for her to be trained and rewarded, so I'm working on trying to find out about this and understand it. She likes pain, it's a major element for her. But can pain be a form of reward? And what sorts of behavior warrant rewards? Are rewards only useful in the context of training? What about just as an element within a scene? Yeah, lots of questions.

To give you an idea where I'm coming from, here's a couple situations I'm drawing from. We live far apart, so I visited her for about 9 days a few weeks ago. Over the course of that week, we experimented and made some definite progress. One of the things I'm still wrestling with is the idea of really causing her pain at all. About halfway thru the week, I had her lay across my knee, and spanked her, hard, repeatedly for several minutes. It was far from a decent scene or anything, it was completely devoid of context, and after, she told me that it wasn't very bad, but it basically "just fucking hurt" for her, and that it would have been better utilized in the context of training, (something which we have still to further explore and which I'm still rather in the dark on.) But for me, it was good in that it at least helped prove to me that I COULD spank her like that at all, which was a big step, and she understood that as well.

Later in the week, we had a fully realized scene. It was very verbal, mostly me telling her what to do, and mostly forcing her to restrain herself, and then finally, after she did alot for me, (mostly non-sexual: pouring me wine, kneeling with her eyes closed, not being allowed to look at me, etc) I finally rewarded her by telling her what she could do to me sexually, which she had really been wanting badly. The scene probably lasted 90 minutes or so, and while it was mostly verbal and non-physical, and there was no pain, it was very intense. And after she told me that it was basically IT. That I nailed it, and that she loved it, that it was perfect for her.

So, it was a good week, but I still have a lot to figure out. I especially want to figure out this pain thing. If I develop a more traditional BDSM scene for us, like handcuffing her and spanking or whipping her, what's a good place to start? I'd like to develop something not too complex to start with. But does hitting her in this context count as a reward since she likes pain, or as punishment within the context of the scene? (ie, "You're such a dirty slut for wanting me so bad!" <slap!>) But then, how do I reward her in this type of scene? And where does training come in? Or would that be more appropriate as a different scene entirely?

Thanks for bearing with me and my million questions.

 

[caela]

Interesting question and ones I will let the more experienced on the boards try and help you with. I look forward to reading their responses myself.

Just a thought however that came to me while I was reading your post, have you looked for other people in your area? A munch group or some other sort of social gathering? You have a lot of question and being able to ask other, more experienced Dominants and submissives who might than be able to show you what they meant (if it was appropriate to the venue) instead of simply verbalizing like we have to do here.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm certainly less experienced than most here but what the hell, I love to discuss.

Okay, first are you enjoying what you are doing? Or are you doing it just for her.

Second, she likes pain but didn't like being spanked? That begs the question why? What sorts of pain does she think she likes? Or, would it have been different if another component were put into play at the same time, penetration somewhere or vibration of something for instance?

Last, if she does indeed enjoy and long for pain, which I'm not convinced of from this post, it sounds like she loves to be dominated though, then no it is not a punishment in my opinion it is a reward.

Say she gives you good oral service you might reward her with what she craves. Or perhaps she had something that is really, really hard for her to do and she does it for a whole week, then you reward her.

In my opinion you shouldn't try whipping her unless you practice a lot on something else first to get the technique down a whip is sort of dangerous.

Now if she enjoys being your "bad girl" and being "punished" which you also enjoy doing to her, that is one thing but for a real punishment for a real infraction, I'd think you would need something that she wouldn't enjoy otherwise you are basically asking her to break the rules constantly to get what she wants.

Orgasm denial and reward can be a nice long distance thing to play with. For instance she has to masturbate and not come everyday, then you get together finally and she has been good, you let her come while giving her this pain that she supposedly wants while you fuck her or she services you.

Another thing, you could do find out what she likes the best and give her a goal to work towards. The goal could be something she wants to work on or something you want her to be able to do that so far, she can't. Tell her she can't do or have this thing until you tell her to and that will be based on when she achieves the goal.

I'm a big proponent of natural consequences with my kids anyway and I'm not much into punishing. If I'm pissed off it's not pretty though. Her goal should be to keep you happy. I don't have a whole lot of thoughts punishment wise. The worse for me would be to disappoint or lose the presence of a Dominator or loved one.

Okay that is more than enough said about something I need more experience in myself.

Good luck to you on your journey in these things.

Fury

 

[CutieMouse]

"My sexual perspective has always been such that it's all about love and giving and making your partner as happy as possible and doing everything to make them understand how wonderful you think they are. Within that idea, there is absolutely no room for pain or submission."

I snipped a bit from your other thread. [I missed it the first time around, sorry]

This may not make a lick of sense...

Firstly y'all must know each other. Long talks about everything under the sun kind of know each other. Being capable of speaking freely and admiting interests, desires, wants and needs knowing that you are safe to do so kind of know each other. A good way to find out what you both enjoy and crave about "The Lifestyle" can be accomplished through communication. The hard thing is actually communicating. (I don't know why but talking openly somehow feels more naked than being naked... anywho...)

In this thread you asked about Rewards vs. Pain. And I'm honestly having the hardest time trying to explain it. There are things that are painful, but a joyful pain because both parties get pleasure from it. It [pain] may be a straight up masochistic pleasure. It [pain] could be a proof of Love through suffering pleasure on the part of the one suffering. It [pain] could be a proof of Love on the part of the one inflicting the pain. (Insert various religious theories regarding suffering out of Love *here*) It isn't just pain, either... things that are difficult offer opportunity to prove Love. (for both Parties)

So (IMO) the "Reward" side of the equation is that you know each other well enough to create opportunity for her to express/show/prove her Love through D/s. In a perfect world that is reciprocated. Maybe y'all reach a place where you get comfy with a very service oriented D/s relationship that isn't very pain heavy (since it sounds like she isn't all *that* into pain?)- she gets to express Love through submission; you get to express Love through focusing on what an obedient focused giving person she is and feeding that part of her soul. Part of what is wonderful about her is her submissive nature... create a positive feedback loop. See? Not so different from traditional Love.

Discipline/punishment, on the other hand is not pleasurable. It is (again IMO) gut-wrenching-uncomfortable-designed-to-fit-the-"crime" so that a lesson is learned, a mistake will not be repeated, and both parties can move forward. It doesn't have to involve pain, although it might. I see the two things (pleasure/reward and discipline/punishment) as two very seperate things that shouldn't mix and try very hard to avoid the latter.

 

[Bandit58]

I enjoy being spanked. Master punishes me by NOT spanking me However we have this swishy riding crop which really stings. It's great after I have been warmed up and am sexually aroused. But used very hard and with no warmup it is NOT a nice pain AT ALL.

I have been punished with it once, with about half a dozen swats, for picking and nibbling the skin on my thumbs. It's a nervous habit, something I do without thinking a lot of the time. I was warned a couple of times but Master caught me the third time and He used the crop. It was not a pleasurable experience He says next time it will be twice as many swats - I'm trying desperately not to pick my thumbs!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Climbing that mountain

But can pain be a form of reward?

Yes

And what sorts of behavior warrant rewards?

Any that you feel is worth rewarding. You will decide this. Do not trivialize or minimize what a reward is. Too much can remove it's purpose and not enough can bring on self-doubt within some subs.

Are rewards only useful in the context of training?

No. Let's not forget our affection we have for our sub. Reward them, at times, for being who and what they are, for giving us what we need/want and for filling out our life.

Rewarding with pain doesn't mean that you cannot use pain as punishment on her as well. Even with painsluts, pain can still be used in a manner they do not enjoy, you just have to be a little more creative with it that's all. For instance, awkward postilions held for a lengthy duration, standing with arms out straight with a book in each hand, kneeling on coarse mats, more severe spankings or strikes without warm-ups (maybe a tool she despises used only for punishment) and so on. Reward and punishment have their place and purpose so do not shy away from either one of them. To neglect them can say many different things to a sub. You are lazy, you are not strong, you do not care for them enough to give them your time, attention and effort and so forth.

For scene development, initially, begin with the basics and easier to control items; hands are always perfect for any scene, hair brush, (stiff shaft) crops, paddles and such (notice, these are primarily rigid items). Move on to the items that need more skill; floggers, quirts, canes, multi-tails etc (more of the flexible items). From these you can progress into the more intense activities of play, which you will learn as the two of you evolve in all of this. Learn how every item works and how to control them. Learn how they feel and what results are left on a body. Use them on yourself before on another. Practice practice and always practice. Find others who are skilled to help you with the learning curve. Take caela's advice and look for groups that hold munches in your area. You can find lectures/demos/seminars on a multitude of subjects in BDSM through them. Remember, the most versatile tool in every scene/relationship is the mind and the creativity it holds. Use it to it's fullest potential.

Learn the anatomy. There are safe areas and dangerous areas on the body in regards to play. Learn about the potential harms with every activity on every area of the body and their likelihood, even where considered safe. There is always some risk of injury so learn the best ways to avoid them and safeguard your sub. Learn them before you take a swing. Learn the basics of the nervous and circulatory system. You do not want to strike nerves that will end a session in a blink of an eye, leaving the sub (literally) hopping mad or worse.. You do not want to do bad bondage, cutting off circulation with obvious results and can also lead to nerve damage. Begin slowly, graduating from the light/sensual aspects into the heavier and more intense. Build the sub up. Make it erotic. This will help increase their threshold as well as help in the association of pleasurable pain. Find her pace in all of this.

Hitting in a scene is part of the scene, not rewarding. What you described is a form of humiliation in a scene; name calling, face slaps etc. Do not think about rewarding during a scene. It should be a reward in itself, for the both of you.

As you see, there is a lot to read on, learn and understand but it is almost as fun since it tends to make you think of the possibilities plus you will be more comfortable and self-assured in doing them in a safe and enjoyable manner. So do not shortchange yourself or your sub. Read, study, learn, practice and then utilize that knowledge and skill. It is your duty and responsibility to do so.

The sky is the limit for enjoyment.