If you are interested in a mini-seminar on Passive Voice

Rhys

the once and future
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
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and how to work on editing your writing, let me know. I was thinking of doing this in Yahoo chat if there was any interest in scheduling a mini seminar on improving your writing. I think it will depend on how many people are interested as to when it will be, so treat this thread like a sign up sheet and post (or pm) if you are interested.
 
I may be interested; kindof depends upon what stance you're taking on it. Are you a "Thou Shalt Not Use the Passive Voice" type of perscriptive grammarian? Do you have a stance on the use of "there is/are..."? ;) Hehe, I'm not trying to quiz, I just enjoy feeling out fellow grammarians on the issue, especially since I haven't seen anyone in about two years who has as big of a problem as I in the "there is/are..." department. Not that my grammar is flawless, by any means! But many speakers and writers ignore it. *sigh* Alas!
 
I would find it interesting. The use of the passive voice, where it is appropriate, needs to be defended. If it were unneccessary, it would not exist.
 
snooper said:
I would find it interesting. The use of the passive voice, where it is appropriate, needs to be defended. If it were unneccessary, it would not exist.

It is being killed by Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker.

Og
 
BohemianEcstasy said:
I may be interested; kindof depends upon what stance you're taking on it. Are you a "Thou Shalt Not Use the Passive Voice" type of perscriptive grammarian? Do you have a stance on the use of "there is/are..."? ;) Hehe, I'm not trying to quiz, I just enjoy feeling out fellow grammarians on the issue, especially since I haven't seen anyone in about two years who has as big of a problem as I in the "there is/are..." department. Not that my grammar is flawless, by any means! But many speakers and writers ignore it. *sigh* Alas!

What's this "there is/are..." problem?

---dr.M.
 
Rhys,

your note was read with interest. is it proposed that this be a course taught by you, or a self-run seminar of interested parties?

J.
 
oggbashan said:
It is being killed by Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker.

Og

I turn off Grammar Check and turn it back on only when working for an anal-retentive client whose daughter-in-law teaches high school English.

Rhys: always interested in observing. I'm a voyeur of writing. I like seeing how these Lit pornsters' minds work.

;)
 
oggbashan said:
It is being killed by Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker.

Og

Literacy in general is being killed by Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker.. :(

Raph, who wants to know about this there is/are thing, like Dr M.
 
raphy said:
Literacy in general is being killed by Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker.. :(
Sadly, yes.

Liar, who wants to know that this Passive Voice is at all to begin with.
 
Liar said:
Sadly, yes.

Liar, who wants to know that this Passive Voice is at all to begin with.

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/passive.htm

That link was pasted by me. That kind of thing.

In scientific literature (an oxymoron, is ever there was one), all you see is passive voice. "The crystals were collected, washed with 20 mL of alcohol..." rather than "We collected the crystals and washed them...". "The images were obtained by a 24-hours exposure..." instead of "We used a 24-hour exposure to obtain the images..."

Passive is great for when you want to duck responsibility for anything. That's why businesses use it so much. See the link.

---dr.M.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/passive.htm

That link was pasted by me. That kind of thing.

In scientific literature (an oxymoron, is ever there was one), all you see is passive voice. "The crystals were collected, washed with 20 mL of alcohol..." rather than "We collected the crystals and washed them...". "The images were obtained by a 24-hours exposure..." instead of "We used a 24-hour exposure to obtain the images..."

Passive is great for when you want to duck responsibility for anything. That's why businesses use it so much. See the link.

---dr.M.
Thank you, DrM. Again, Lit educated. :)
 
I just propose to teach it, where its appropriate to use, such as in technical writing, and where its awkward, such in creative fiction. I prefer a more college style teaching, and that is to say more discussion style. I have a yahoo group, and I thought all interested parties could gather there at a fixed time and use that group chat function in order to discuss the topic.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
What's this "there is/are..." problem?

---dr.M.

I may be wrong, this could be kindof a Lowth rule, but...view the following.

The girl throws the ball. =Active Voice.
The ball is thrown by the girl. =Passive voice.
There is a girl throwing a ball.

Starting a sentence with "there is/are" doesn't give the agent any action. It states that something exists, but doesn't give it something to do. I'm not saying it should NEVER be used, but it needs to be used more consciously.
 
BohemianEcstasy said:
I may be wrong, this could be kindof a Lowth rule, but...view the following.

The girl throws the ball. =Active Voice.
The ball is thrown by the girl. =Passive voice.
There is a girl throwing a ball.

Starting a sentence with "there is/are" doesn't give the agent any action. It states that something exists, but doesn't give it something to do. I'm not saying it should NEVER be used, but it needs to be used more consciously.

Of all the things to be bothered by!!
 
Hehe, I guess that kindof answered my question about the relevance, then. :p As a grammarian, I find it unproductive to rely upon "there is/are" too frequently, but I guess it's no big deal. *shrugs*
 
Rhys said:
... I have a yahoo group, and I thought all interested parties could gather there at a fixed time and use that group chat function in order to discuss the topic.
Well that just about cuts out the Europeans then. Not content with changing our language ;) you Americans insist on being active at strange hours. I have never understood why you can't get up at 7am GMT and go to bed at 11pm GMT like civilised people?

Seriously, chat groups between time-zones almost always end up as a series of discrete sub-groups.
 
snooper said:
Well that just about cuts out the Europeans then. Not content with changing our language ;) you Americans insist on being active at strange hours. I have never understood why you can't get up at 7am GMT and go to bed at 11pm GMT like civilised people?

Seriously, chat groups between time-zones almost always end up as a series of discrete sub-groups.
Late night in Europe is late afternoon in the US. Basically. So an after lunch session for you yanks should be waking hours for all. Then of course, that rules out Asia. But the only AH regular I know that should be snoozing then would be dear li'l dampy. I volunteer to give her a private...ahem...lession after I'm done gettin' educated.

Wait, forgot the Ozzies and Kiwis. No worries, there is plenty of #L to go around.

#L
 
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BohemianEcstasy said:
Hehe, I guess that kindof answered my question about the relevance, then. :p As a grammarian, I find it unproductive to rely upon "there is/are" too frequently, but I guess it's no big deal. *shrugs*

It's strange to see someone who calls themself a grammarian using "kindof" as one word.
 
Liar said:
But the only AH regular I know that should be snoozing then would be dear li'l dampy. I volunteer to give her a private...ahem...lession after I'm done gettin' educated.

A private WHAT?! :eek:

Is a lession like a lesion, like a love bite or something?

Ahem.

Yes, of course, that Liar person with the fantastic AV meant lesson.

:eek:

Sigh. ;)
 
It seems to me that there has been enough demonstration of the use of the passive voice on this thread to show that most of the AH do not need a seminar on its use.

Perhaps it should remain as a thread in case so of us might want to ask a specific question about passive voice.

We tend to avoid its use in our stories because it dilutes the impact. Even if we do use it, Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker tells us we are using the passive and suggests sometimes ludicrous alternatives.

Og
 
oggbashan said:
It seems to me that there has been enough demonstration of the use of the passive voice on this thread to show that most of the AH do not need a seminar on its use.

Perhaps it should remain as a thread in case so of us might want to ask a specific question about passive voice.

We tend to avoid its use in our stories because it dilutes the impact. Even if we do use it, Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker tells us we are using the passive and suggests sometimes ludicrous alternatives.

Og

It amazes me that any writer would use Word's grammar checker. It is not only the pre-programmed highlighting of passive voice that's irritating, but the fact that it doesn't recognize much beyond basic sentence constructions. Start writing about anything even vaguely specialist, and it either points out that it doesn't know what you're doing, or tries to fuck it up for you. I always presumed anyone who uses Word to write more than letters to their bank manager turned the thing off.
 
upfront said:
It amazes me that any writer would use Word's grammar checker. It is not only the pre-programmed highlighting of passive voice that's irritating, but the fact that it doesn't recognize much beyond basic sentence constructions. Start writing about anything even vaguely specialist, and it either points out that it doesn't know what you're doing, or tries to fuck it up for you. I always presumed anyone who uses Word to write more than letters to their bank manager turned the thing off.

I keep it on because it reminds me of my specialist superiority. :D

Well, it's sometimes useful because English is my second language and I do not know the basics of grammar exactly. I just write what feels right to me. So sometimes it's a tool for learning, sometimes it's a pesky nuisance and it's great for my ego to override the recommendations. :)

It's anything but irritating. It makes me think.
 
upfront said:
it either points out that it doesn't know what you're doing, or tries to fuck it up for you. I always presumed anyone who uses Word to write more than letters to their bank manager turned the thing off.

I use it to find typos that are real words but not the words I intended to type. It also finds errors in character names such as 'Elaina' when I meant 'Elaine'.

I find it a useful tool because I recognise its limitations. I don't have it turned on all the time. I use it during the editing process to highlight possible mistakes. Even so, I don't find them all before I hit the 'submit' button.

It also finds my most common typo - extra spaces.

Og
 
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