If the comments for a story assume things about your characters that you feel are untrue, would you correct them?

[Statius]

I have written a total of 2 comments for my stories, both in Loving Wives. The first was just a cheeky way to thank people for all the comments - even though most of them were very negative. And the second was "almost" an apology for not putting an author's note at the top of a story. I was genuinely upset that people felt that I "baited and switched" them into a story they'd rather not read.

J4S

Maybe you would feel better if you read through the dozens of threads others have started about LW. It's probably not you or your story. That audience, from what I have read, has readers and commenters who are just plain hostile if it's not a BTB.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I would not bother answering such comments as the odds are low the commenter would check back to see if you responded.

But, I would (and have) go back to the story and double check that you wrote it the way you think you did.

 

[Just4Sheets]

Maybe you would feel better if you read through the dozens of threads others have started about LW. It's probably not you or your story. That audience, from what I have read, has readers and commenters who are just plain hostile if it's not a BTB.

Oh, I have. And I'm generally ok with LW. And I even enjoy much of the hateful comments I get .. at least they show me people are reading the story and identifying with a character enough to hate. But this was the first time I felt the character didn't deserve the hate she was getting .. and since she was created in my mind that bothers me.

J4S

 

[THBGato]

I have a story where a couple of commenters got confused by the names and thus completely misunderstood the ending. I did drop them a note to clarify!

 

[SmilingLez]

Just like recliner "athletes", readers will twist and turn words of the author into theirs, so they can become part of the "game" (story creation). Regardless of how tight your character development is, the reader is going to make it theirs. Negative reviews correspond to the recliner "athlete's" favorite team losing. It means the image in their mind (which they created) was flawed and no one wants to admit being "flawed". YMMV

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I honestly thought there wasn't any question there. I was completely blindsided by the comments suggesting that.

J4S

I completely understand, that's why I'm suggesting you go through your text again.
Most of us have a great deal more complexity in the character in our minds than ever ends up on paper.
There is the character as we intended them, then there is the character as we actually wrote them.
Unfortunately, they aren't always the same.

And, sometimes the readers miss those aspects.
I had a somewhat similar comment, that characterized my FMC very differently than I'd intended. I went back through and looked for evidence for both sides. I think I wrote enough to establish my intent, but I could also see how if you only focused on two or three of those moments you could reach a different conclusion.
For me it's just something to think about for the next work.

 

[Britva415]

Shelley doesn't get to drive the interpretation of the story anymore, the reader does

So, whether or not to write unequivocally is a more important choice now than ever.

 

[Britva415]

.. when you put it that way

it's not their story, though

 

[Just4Sheets]

I completely understand, that's why I'm suggesting you go through your text again.
Most of us have a great deal more complexity in the character in our minds than ever ends up on paper.
There is the character as we intended them, then there is the character as we actually wrote them.
Unfortunately, they aren't always the same.

And, sometimes the readers miss those aspects.
I had a somewhat similar comment, that characterized my FMC very differently than I'd intended. I went back through and looked for evidence for both sides. I think I wrote enough to establish my intent, but I could also see how if you only focused on two or three of those moments you could reach a different conclusion.
For me it's just something to think about for the next work.

I just reread my story with fresh eyes. I stand by my earlier statement .. there's nothing in the story to make it seem like prior to the turning point of the story, that she was anything but a devoted, faithful wife. The story was just as I remembered it. I'll admit the end might throw some people off, but not in a way that calls the wife's motives into question. I honestly enjoyed reading it again.

J4S

 

[Statius]

I just reread my story with fresh eyes. I stand by my earlier statement .. there's nothing in the story to make it seem like prior to the turning point of the story, that she was anything but a devoted, faithful wife. The story was just as I remembered it. I'll admit the end might throw some people off, but not in a way that calls the wife's motives into question. I honestly enjoyed reading it again.

J4S

A simple case of 'Its not me, it's you'.

Wash your hands of it and be proud of the story and character YOU created. She'll (and the story) will live on in your mind. The commenter has probably already moved on.

 

[Britva415]

there's nothing in the story to make it seem like prior to the turning point of the story, that she was a devoted, faithful wife

Fixed that for you

really, the internet be like

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Yeah I get that. But with this one story it really saddens me that readers missed the entire point of the story. I feel like I failed.

J4S

The readers in the LW category are some of the most intolerant of literary nuances, and more impatient than almost any other category.

I only have two stories in LW, and both of these involve plots more complicated than most of the readers could handle. This is evident by the feedback. In one, the husband and wife role play each year on Valentines Day and most readers perceived them as two married people having an affair. It was written to purposely present infidelity as a possible cause for the couple hooking up each year on that day, but the truth is clearly revealed for any of the readers who finished the tale.

The other story that I have there deals with the wife planning to cheat on her husband while he is undergoing a procedure in the hospital. When he goes under general anesthesia he is able to communicate with the wife telepathically and begs her not to go through with her plans. She ignores him and he ends up dying on the operating table. Several readers thought the husband killed himself and considered him a "wimp".

 

[NoTalentHack]

I just reread my story with fresh eyes. I stand by my earlier statement .. there's nothing in the story to make it seem like prior to the turning point of the story, that she was anything but a devoted, faithful wife. The story was just as I remembered it. I'll admit the end might throw some people off, but not in a way that calls the wife's motives into question. I honestly enjoyed reading it again.

J4S

So, I read it, and... I can kind of see where they're coming from.

If one is charitably inclined, it can easily be read as a story of a husband who tried to open the relationship, a wife who retaliated, and then them finding each other again, and maybe finding a new side to themselves. I think that's what you were going for.

However, I also think there's another way to read it that isn't so kind to the characters, and it's valid, too.

For example, there's a certain ease to the wife's interactions with the other men, even at the very beginning, that does seem coded, if one looks at it through a certain lens, as though a pre-existing relationship exists there. It's also... like, she dove headfirst into humiliation, forced bi, etc. in a way that seems like either these were fantasies she'd always had and now she got to act on them or, alternately, as if they were fantasies she'd already acted on with someone else. Even with her anger, that's a lot all at once.

I understand what you were going for, but between the close third person (so no omniscient narrator saying that she'd never cheated/etc., only the limited "over the shoulder camera" from the husband's POV), along with the character details you established about a woman who theoretically had only ever been with her husband (and with whom it seemed like she had a fairly vanilla sex life), plus indicators in the story that the husband and wife existed around each other more than being "with" each other (her surprise at him telling her that he loved her, etc.), there's very much room for a more cynical reader to draw the conclusion that she'd been cheating on him for a while.

 

[Just4Sheets]

The readers in the LW category are some of the most intolerant of literary nuances, and more impatient than almost any other category.

I only have two stories in LW, and both of these involve plots more complicated than most of the readers could handle. This is evident by the feedback. In one, the husband and wife role play each year on Valentines Day and most readers perceived them as two married people having an affair. It was written to purposely present infidelity as a possible cause for the couple hooking up each year on that day, but the truth is clearly revealed for any of the readers who finished the tale.

The other story that I have there deals with the wife planning to cheat on her husband while he is undergoing a procedure in the hospital. When he goes under general anesthesia he is able to communicate with the wife telepathically and begs her not to go through with her plans. She ignores him and he ends up dying on the operating table. Several readers thought the husband killed himself and considered him a "wimp".

Man, that's messed up that people said that. Would you mind linking that story please or DM it to me?

J4S

 

[NoTalentHack]

And just to be clear here, I'm not trying to be a dick. I think a lot of the stories in LW, including many/most of mine, can be seen through a bunch of different lenses, depending on the reader's experience, regardless of the skill of the writer. You wrote the story well, but within the framework you told it (third person close, the choices you made with how much you showed of the characters' interactions beforehand, etc.), there's only so much that can be done to make the reader see the story that you thought you wrote.

Because that's what it comes down to: we can write a story, but what goes on the page is only a shadow of the story in our heads.

One of my all-time favorite sayings, learned from a science teacher years ago, is, "All models are wrong, but some models are useful." When you write the story, you're presenting a snapshot of the world you're creating; a model. And that model, like all models, is incomplete, and therefore on some level wrong. All you can do is try to present the best model that you can--one that presents the truest idea of what you're trying to say with the fewest extraneous details--then hope your beta reader or editor or whoever you let have the first look at it points out the flaws in your model.

Even then, you're still going to get readers who don't follow what you've put down, though. They needed a breadcrumb trail you didn't put down that 90% of the other readers reading it didn't, and without that, they're going to go off into the woods and get eaten by bears. And sometimes? You just need to let that happen and move on.

 

[Just4Sheets]

So, I read it, and... I can kind of see where they're coming from.

If one is charitably inclined, it can easily be read as a story of a husband who tried to open the relationship, a wife who retaliated, and then them finding each other again, and maybe finding a new side to themselves. I think that's what you were going for.

However, I also think there's another way to read it that isn't so kind to the characters, and it's valid, too.

For example, there's a certain ease to the wife's interactions with the other men, even at the very beginning, that does seem coded, if one looks at it through a certain lens, as though a pre-existing relationship exists there. It's also... like, she dove headfirst into humiliation, forced bi, etc. in a way that seems like either these were fantasies she'd always had and now she got to act on them or, alternately, as if they were fantasies she'd already acted on with someone else. Even with her anger, that's a lot all at once.

I understand what you were going for, but between the close third person (so no omniscient narrator saying that she'd never cheated/etc., only the limited "over the shoulder camera" from the husband's POV), along with the character details you established about a woman who theoretically had only ever been with her husband (and with whom it seemed like she had a fairly vanilla sex life), plus indicators in the story that the husband and wife existed around each other more than being "with" each other (her surprise at him telling her that he loved her, etc.), there's very much room for a more cynical reader to draw the conclusion that she'd been cheating on him for a while.

I appreciate this more than you know. I honestly can't read that story without framing it as a love story - a beautiful one, even. The wife never wanted anyone but her husband, and when he opened the relationship, she just went along with it. And yeah, she really went with it. I get what you mean, though. You make a fair point.

I almost always write from a close POV, so yeah, there's no narrator - everything's filtered through the husband's eyes. I'm still not sure I see her as having cheated before the story started, though. If she had been, and he then suggested opening the relationship, I just don't think she would've been so devastated by it, and that was something I tried hard to show. But yeah, she definitely hit the ground running once that door opened.

My whole approach started from a simple "what if": what if a guy wanted to open the relationship so he could cheat with permission, but he fails, and his wife succeeds? Everything from there just flowed as I wrote. I didn't have an outline beyond that premise. Maybe if I had, I could've addressed some of those questions more cleanly.

Thank you for reading it, seriously.
J4S

 

[NoTalentHack]

To illustrate, here's a passage from a story of mine, 3BR, 2BA, 1 Story that... honestly, I think it's the best story I've written yet, both from a technical standpoint and as a character study. I'm immensely proud of it. It's the story of a middle-aged couple doing the last walkthrough of their house after a divorce and all the memories that evokes, which includes a confrontation that they never resolved: why couldn't the husband forgive her and stay together? And he explains to her that he had forgiven her, but:

"Why?"

She seemed confused by the question. "Because I love you? We've been together for over half our lives, and I don't want us to end like this. I don't want us to end at all."

I sighed deeply. "Again, why? What is it about me that makes you want to be with me? And don't say 'our shared past' or 'because I love you.'"

"Then.. I don't..." Frustration evident in her tone and voice, she almost snapped, "What, then? What do you want me to say? I want to be with you because I want to be with you."

"That's my point exactly. You want to be with me because you want to be with me. And, before all this happened, I wanted to be with you because I wanted to be with you. We were stable, even when it sucked. But I don't want to be with you anymore, and you shouldn't want to be with me, either."

Before she could object, I pressed the point. "I want you to answer a question, Gail. Take your time and really think about it. I'm not going to rush you, and I promise this isn't a trick. Will you do that for me?" She nodded, dubious.

"Okay, here goes: Can you name five things that you and I have in common that aren't either our kids or this house?"

Gail's mouth opened half-way, then closed. Her brows knitted together, eyes flickering as she considered and discarded options. I'd had longer to think about it--a lot longer--so I knew where this train of thought would go, assuming she was honest in her response. Still, sometimes it's about the journey, not the destination.

We had literally nothing in common anymore except for a good sex life, our shared past, and maybe one or two relatively unimportant interests. We both still liked horror movies, for example, and shared a love of college football, but that was it. On everything else? On politics, hobbies, tastes, spirituality, or any of the other aspects of our lives, big or small, we shared no common ground.

It goes on from there; she argues back that that's common at their age, etc., but ultimately comes to the conclusion that he's right; there's no "there" there anymore, just a chasm that they built between themselves over twenty years of marriage and nothing tangible enough between them to allow them to rebuild.

I thought I made it very clear by fleshing it out before and after, and through the flashbacks. I thought folks would get it. And, admittedly, most of them did. But som people got stuck on that last line.

Boy, did they get stuck on it.

A selection of comments:

All the reasons he put forward for why it couldn't work struck me as powerful arguments for the contrary. Politics and spirituality are far, far less important for a happy union than a shared love of horror movies and college football and who ever said that their hobbies needed to mesh together? Hobbies are by definition interests that are personal to each and a healthy way to take a time out from each other.

I didn't like the MC. At all. And I don't agree with what appear to be his beliefs about his purpose in life or his understanding of marriage. It may well be that his hurt from her betrayal made divorce his proper course after what had happened, but his explanation of the decline of their marriage failed miserably. The world is full of successful marriages between people with less in common than they. He seems to suffer from an extremely immature understanding of what love is and what marriage requires.

Name 5 things we have in common, not counting our children and our house? Seriously? Not counting their family and their home? What the fuck is marriage about if not mostly family and home?

Honestly I couldn't disagree more with the MC and his response. It felt dishonest and self-serving.

I don't want my wife to have the same interests as me, that'd be boring and delusional as people's interests change over time.

There are about a dozen more comments with some variation on this, and even in the comments that are positive about the story, that one line gets picked up on in a good chunk of them.

It was really only meant as a shorthand way to say "hey, these people have nothing in common with each other anymore," after following up on an earlier passage that described how, when they were in couples therapy together, she lit up when describing the things she'd had in common with her affair partner, even as she insisted that she loved her husband and regretted it. It wasn't... like, it's not a throwaway line, but it was meant to underline other stuff, not be the end-all-be-all thesis of the piece.

Still, that's how some people took it, and I can't control that.

But I also won't let it control me or what I write, even if I will let the lessons learned--when a little more explanation might be needed, how to deemphasize a talking point so it doesn't become THE talking point, etc.--inform later stories.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

The only time I've had real violent disagreement with my characters in the comments was a 750-word story Denying Alex - in retrospect the word 'denying' implies more intent than simply not having sex with someone. It wasn't even in LW! 'The author is the real piece of shit', for example...

I did eventually add a comment of my own, mostly for my own amusement:
Note to self: 'Rapeyfucker McBastardface' is clearly too subtle a way to describe a man as a *fucking* *bastard* *rapist*...

I also got a lot of comments objecting to my I/T siblings 'only having a one-night stand', but I didn't argue, because most of them were just politely disappointed. And explaining that actually my story was one heck of a lot more likely would have defeated the entire point of the fantasy of the category. I simply didn't write what they were really looking for.

 

[OddLove]

I think the wisest answer is 'just leave it alone' because in order to 'clarify' and 'explain' why the reader is confused or misunderstanding what they've read, you have to challenge their perception. And their perception is determined by their values, their opinions, their mood, their beliefs, and their past experiences. If a person is wired to assume the absolutely worse of another person or character by 'filling in the blanks' with the least charitable option/assumption, you could fill in all those blanks and set the record straight, but that person will always find more blank spots to insert their uncharitable assumptions.

 

[Just4Sheets]

There are about a dozen more comments with some variation on this, and even in the comments that are positive about the story, that one line gets picked up on in a good chunk of them.

It was really only meant as a shorthand way to say "hey, these people have nothing in common with each other anymore," after following up on an earlier passage that described how, when they were in couples therapy together, she lit up when describing the things she'd had in common with her affair partner, even as she insisted that she loved her husband and regretted it. It wasn't... like, it's not a throwaway line, but it was meant to underline other stuff, not be the end-all-be-all thesis of the piece.

Still, that's how some people took it, and I can't control that.

But I also won't let it control me or what I write, even if I will let the lessons learned--when a little more explanation might be needed, how to deemphasize a talking point so it doesn't become THE talking point, etc.--inform later stories.

I see what you mean .. but your story is sitting with a nice 4.5ish rating .. while my LW stories average well under 3. But you're right that people didn't understand what you were saying .. and they didn't really like your MC. But at least they really liked the story!

J4S

 

[iwatchus]

I lean towards clarifying, not for the original commenters' sake, but for future readers sake. The original commenters are unlikely to see it anyway. The comments can influence future readers thoughts about the story.

 

[Just4Sheets]

The only time I've had real violent disagreement with my characters in the comments was a 750-word story Denying Alex - in retrospect the word 'denying' implies more intent than simply not having sex with someone. It wasn't even in LW! 'The author is the real piece of shit', for example...

I did eventually add a comment of my own, mostly for my own amusement:
Note to self: 'Rapeyfucker McBastardface' is clearly too subtle a way to describe a man as a *fucking* *bastard* *rapist*...

I also got a lot of comments objecting to my I/T siblings 'only having a one-night stand', but I didn't argue, because most of them were just politely disappointed. And explaining that actually my story was one heck of a lot more likely would have defeated the entire point of the fantasy of the category. I simply didn't write what they were really looking for.

As I said earlier, I have only written 2 comments myself. One was after around 50 comments of hate on a story I said:

I love you all! If I could I'd hug/fuck/blow every one of you!

And yeah .. that was cheeky af, but I was very new to literotica and wanted to let them know they couldn't hurt me (and back then I really thought they couldn't).
And my second comment was a story where I felt guilty for not putting an author's note at the top of my story, when it went in a very unexpected direction:

I put in an Author's Note and people say it wasn't needed. I don't put one in an people say I should have.

This story could have gone in a few different categories, but I decided this was the best one for what it was. If the words hurt your sensibilities I'm so sorry - I wasn't trying to make you gay. I was just telling a story.

As I've said in the past, I don't go into a story like this thinking, "ok .. she's going to cheat and he's going to get even by fucking her dad." I go in thinking, "She's going to cheat, and let's see where we wind up."

That being said, I'm a huge fan of writing blowjobs so every story I write has at least one. I'm a creature of habit. 3 more stories pending right now. If you don't like this one you should probably avoid them.

Regardless of whether you liked the story or not, know that I love you all for reading it.

Keep the love coming folks, but don’t stop the hate either. The former fuels my ego, the latter fuels my right hand!

So I ended on a cheeky note again .. but I tried to apologize without truly apologizing.
I wish I could blame Loving Wives for that one, but I'm guessing I would have gotten some hate for that story any category I put it.

J4S

 

[LetsMisBehave]

One problem with Loving Wives is that readers seem to expect a story that fits easily into the BTB, cheating or willing cuckoldry genres, and have problems when it doesn't.
Don't worry if people don't get it, but do listen (as you are obviously doing) to constructive comments like NoTalentHack's and bear them in mind if you want to avoid honest readers getting the wrong end of the stick.
I have decided to value the extra people who decide to follow me or people who favourite the story more than the ratings when I publish in LW. Thick skin and saying that I am writing for me and the few people who, enjoy what I write is my way of keeping going.
If it helps, my most recent effort in LW seems to have pissed off everybody unintentionally. In retrospect, it probably felt like a bait-and-switch story to those expecting a cheating story while also winding up those wanting a BTB story.
I am almost proud to have, at one stage, had a 1.25 rating after 10 votes and 1.8 after 26 on 2.2k readings (or at least someone reading the first few lines). Mildly irritated that no one bothered to tell me why they hated it.
I was trying to write a story which shows two people who have different problems with displaying sexuality (one from guilt at marrying a young wife and the other from innocence), but they both desperately want to make the marriage work. There are family members who are trying to help them, but two, although trying to show empathy, only intellectually understand their problems, and the one who does understand them emotionally knows he is the worst person to help them.
The family unites to humiliate a man who tries to cuckold the husband by manipulating her by pretending to help her deal with his inhibitions, but it ends with the husband and wife successfully having sex, still confused about what they need to do to make the marriage work.
I can understand IWatchUs's point about responding to comments to persuade some readers to reread or reevaluate.

 

[dirk2024]

To illustrate, here's a passage from a story of mine, 3BR, 2BA, 1 Story that... honestly, I think it's the best story I've written yet, both from a technical standpoint and as a character study.

I thought it was a great story and I don't understand those detractors at all.

 

[dirk2024]

I read where you said you weren't planning on writing another story with that character, but it seems like its going to leave a long lasting bad taste in your mouth.

I don't want to see a creator feel that way about their creation.

So I hope you change your mind. Take that character, give her new life in a non LW story.