If I had my way...

[psiberzerker]

I realize that my personal brand of sadomasochism is a little unortodox. This leads to misunderstanding, so I thought I'd try to explain myself.
First off, I'm a Dominant Masochist, which give some people pause. Though nominally on different ends of the BDSM spectrum, I don't believe that they are incompatible. Dominance is a cerebral thing, while pain is stimulus. Though I've never seen a sadistic submissive, I guess they'd be a bit rarer. I have met others who where Domasochistic, to varying degrees, so at least I'm not unique.
Another thing that irks me are Dominants who have never subbed. If I had my way, instead of just pretending too, everyone would start on the bottom before they tried to start running their own scene. It's the way I've done it, and most of the people I've known who've gone through the same "Apprenticeship" where better dom/mes for it.
Contrary to poular (Vanilla) belief, subbing is easier than dominating. The bottom can just ly back, and take it, or thrash, and scream their heads off. The top, OTOH, is responsible for the rest of the scene. THey have to do all the binding, stimulate their peice, and mop up when things go wrong. Sure, you can get your "Slave" to do the heavy lifting, but eventually your whipping arm gets tired.
I'm getting pretty sick of little baby bats trying to dominate me for no better reason than they said so. I'm not a child, even less so than them, and in their inexperience, they just don't realize that. A few weeks in the stocks has been very sucessfull for giving them some perspective.
I'm not saying this because I think that neophytes need to be punished. In fact, I don't even hurt them, but bondage has a nasty habit of showing you how it feels to be helpless. It illustrates true mental submission as opposed to posturing, and making irrational demands.
Similarly, I think any experienced sub shoud try their hand at the other end of the whip. The first time I ever took over a scene, I was "Breaking in" a "Virgin" sub. I found that I liked it, not for the power trip, but for the challenge. I never start with restraint, it was a bit to advanced for her, but I got her used to taking instruction, and listening. I even perposefully took her over the line of her personal tolerance to show her when to use the safe word.
I've trained starting dommes by taking the sub role too, but that's a bit tricky. You can't really give instruction with any authority down there, so it's basicly topping from the bottom. I hate that. Much better to demonstrate techniques on them, let them know not only that it works, but how. That, to me, is how to learn to be a dominant.
As for how long it takes, I can't say. I spent a couple years at the bottom, then worked my way up to running scenes under supervision. I was lucky to have a sympathetic Domme, who just happened to be straight. When she was propositioned by a girl, who happened to be Bi, she used the opportunity to teach me a lesson.
That first submissive, Tara, was the first, and last to wear my collar. We had a good long run at it, despite some incompatibilities, untill she had her first dominant scene. Now, she's fairly accomplished from what I know. Honestly, I haven't heard from her in years.
The point of all this, and the de facto question for this topic is... Do you think people should try to start at the top? Can you really TRUST a Dom/me who's never subbed? Would you want to be hir first?
My answer to all of these are a resounding No!. You can't know how to dominate someone if you've never been dominated. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Ebonyfire]

The point of all this, and the de facto question for this topic is... Do you think people should try to start at the top? Can you really TRUST a Dom/me who's never subbed? Would you want to be hir first?
My answer to all of these are a resounding No!. You can't know how to dominate someone if you've never been dominated. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Actually I have to disagree.

It really depends on if the person is dominant or not, and if the person is willing to do the work necessary to be proficient.

The amount of time does not matter, and how you start does not matter, what matters is your willingness to learn.

There are several ways a dominant can get experience, and the ones who are really serious, will seek out the knowledge.

If you find a good mentor, you can succeed without being a submissive.

Now when it comes to using the tools of the trade, I know I test some of my equipment on myself before I use it on my sub. Also, I am a great believer in taking lessons. I took lessons on how to use a cane properly.

 

[Ebonyfire]

BTW

I started as a sub, and was very un-submissive. And it had no basis for my becoming a Domme, cause I would have had the same mentors anyway.

 

[psiberzerker]

I hear, and understand.

Training can have a great effect on a fledgling Dom/me. I however am of the school that training is no substitute for experience. To each their own.
The part of the question you never answered, however interests me. Would/have you ever subbed for someone who never dominated before? Specificly, where you the first BDSM experience of either stripe for them?
To me, it always struck me ass a recipie for my ass kicked. Some of my worst, most regrettible experiences where from someone getting too big for their britches. (Myself included, you have to start somewhere.)
OTOH I have known naturals, Dom/mes who came right out of the gate with what it takes. Specificly, I referr to the intrinsic manipulative personality neccisary to love, and cherish whilst beating the object of your affections. That said, I didn't start with bondage, pain, or any advanced techniques.
How far are you willing to go with a neodominant? How much are you willing to risk? A scene that gets out of hand can be traumatic, not only for you, but for the nominal dom/me. Are you willing to chance that they will never be able to enjoy sex again? I've seen it happen.
I will concede that a Dom/me trained by a sub will probably have a better idea what to do, and how. I'd still rather play with someone who's tasted the lash first.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: I hear, and understand.

Training can have a great effect on a fledgling Dom/me. I however am of the school that training is no substitute for experience. To each their own.
The part of the question you never answered, however interests me. Would/have you ever subbed for someone who never dominated before? Specificly, where you the first BDSM experience of either stripe for them?
To me, it always struck me ass a recipie for my ass kicked. Some of my worst, most regrettible experiences where from someone getting too big for their britches. (Myself included, you have to start somewhere.)
OTOH I have known naturals, Dom/mes who came right out of the gate with what it takes. Specificly, I referr to the intrinsic manipulative personality neccisary to love, and cherish whilst beating the object of your affections. That said, I didn't start with bondage, pain, or any advanced techniques.
How far are you willing to go with a neodominant? How much are you willing to risk? A scene that gets out of hand can be traumatic, not only for you, but for the nominal dom/me. Are you willing to chance that they will never be able to enjoy sex again? I've seen it happen.
I will concede that a Dom/me trained by a sub will probably have a better idea what to do, and how. I'd still rather play with someone who's tasted the lash first.

I personally think that if you play with someone you know and set up boundaries and safewords, you will be ok.

And if they bother to learn what they are doing, whether they have been a sub or not is a moot point.

If I need brain surgery, I do not need to find a surgeon who has had brain surgery, to have confidence in his skill. I would rather know he is board certified and has finished his residency, and has a few operations under his belt.

In short, I want to know that he (or she) is qualified. Being a submissive does not qualify you to be a dominant.

 

[lark sparrow]

two cents

Mistress doesn't like pain. As She has often never felt the specific sensations She gives me, she has to trust that I will respond honestly in being able to take more, or less, etc. and learns how to read and judge my responses on Her own. Even if She did try everything She did to me on Herself, people react to sensations differently. Some people can't get enough caning and would make most others cringe in what they crave and can take, but can handle very little nipple play because they can barely stand to have them touched.

If you enjoy pain or submission as a Top/Dom/me or Switch, wonderful, but I don't think it is absolutely necessary to experience it. What is She going to learn by being forced to receive pain that is not erotic to Her, and cannot be extrapolated directly to how I experience pain? If She had to bottom to someone it would feel nothing like what it feels like to me, just as my topping someone has very little to do with what She does and experiences. I have topped people before, but it didn't teach me why She has the passion and commitment to take on a submissive long-term as Her responsibility.

We can still appreciate eachother's roles. For those who want to start at the bottom or switch, I think it is wonderful of course, but one size does not fit all. When we try something new, I will often be the one to do more research. She has no problem with me giving my input into the activity before we partake, and I trust that once we begin She will use Her knowledge of the activity, me and Her own goals to the best of Her ability - which is pretty darn good.

 

[psiberzerker]

I grokk you there, no amount of bodging will fit that square peg in a round hole. My point is I guess more of a personal one.
Submission is about trust, and I cannot bring myself to trust anyone who hasn't enjoyed it. I'm not even talking about pain here, it takes a particular sensorium to enjoy cigarette tips on your nipples.
I guess the heart of it is that I'm not much of a submissive. It's not a role I slip into very well, so I kinda have to be forced into it. Someone who doesn't have that kind of experience usually has a lot of trouble Dominating me into submission.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

Contrary to poular (Vanilla) belief, subbing is easier than dominating. The bottom can just ly back, and take it, or thrash, and scream their heads off. The top, OTOH, is responsible for the rest of the scene. THey have to do all the binding, stimulate their peice, and mop up when things go wrong. Sure, you can get your "Slave" to do the heavy lifting, but eventually your whipping arm gets tired.

I highly disagree with you here. I am a naturally strong woman, and discovered my submissive side before my dominant side. I'm a switch. And I find it MUCH more difficult to bite my tongue and do as I'm told, to submit to mental and physical domination than to do the dominating. And yet, I am more comfortable with the challenges of submission. It's not easier, but it's my gift to the person who earns my submission, and then is a labour of love. I am only now learning to be a dominant, and it is interesting, but much easier to me than was learning submission.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

Though I've never seen a sadistic submissive, I guess they'd be a bit rarer.


HA! I've been called sadistic on a few occasions.. and I so like to bite my bf. MMMM yummy (misses him )
and I aim to please LMAO he wishes I was more agreesive he likes agreesive girls he says he likes it 50/50

but I'm SHHYYYYY lol

anyway so I guess you sorta met one now dont really qualify but probably the closest

cant wait till the brat gets here Think hes gonna have bite and nail marks the next morning LMAO

especially after not being allowed to masturbate for 2 weeks before he gets here LMAO OMG I SOO CANT DO THIS.
anyway he likes bites and scratches hes like "Harder..." that surprised me first night I was with him lol



*goes and reads the rest of the thread*

 

[psiberzerker]

I see you've changed your avatar once again there Pix. I Bare ly got used to the last one, but this has a bit less to take in now dunit? And you call yourself shy.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

Re: two cents

Mistress doesn't like pain. As She has often never felt the specific sensations She gives me, she has to trust that I will respond honestly in being able to take more, or less, etc. and learns how to read and judge my responses on Her own. Even if She did try everything She did to me on Herself, people react to sensations differently. Some people can't get enough caning and would make most others cringe in what they crave and can take, but can handle very little nipple play because they can barely stand to have them touched.

VERY true. I'm not very communicative. I'm very shy.
BF got frustrated with me saying how am I suppose to know what feels good I'm not a mind reader.. but he can read me SO fucking well. like one night he got carried away with my nipples. I get the impression maybe its in my head but I get the impression he was alot more gentle at first with them then before he left.
anyway he was being rougher then normal. I didnt say anything but it was a little much. I am not sure how he knew. but hes very observent. He stopped and said hed leave them alone for a while.
I gotta talk to him thought he likes it rougher then I do LOL

 

[Pixie Mischief]

I see you've changed your avatar once again there Pix. I Bare ly got used to the last one, but this has a bit less to take in now dunit? And you call yourself shy.

I'm not very shy online but I am on the phone and person. especially when it comes to men. I'm not shy in other ways.

 

[Zaudika]

Though I've never seen a sadistic submissive, I guess they'd be a bit rarer.

Just a quick note to add that I tend to have a bit of a sadistic streak in my also, much to my Master's disapproval at times. Like Pixie, my main things is the biting, sometimes other things also. I love watching how the body reactions, love the noises that come from the other person when I do things. It's addicting in a way. Enough so that I get myself into trouble at times.

Because of the at times strong sadistic streak, I have also in the past explored my role as a Dominant, and have Dominated a couple people, in my past relationship with a switch, and also in a scene with a friend. Honestly, I was just never comfortable with it. I know it's not my place.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

its only fun...

when they bite back

 

[Justina123]

I subbed once for a new Dom (actually, we played on I think 4 occasions). We spent some time getting to know each other first, he was very Dominant in personality, a real natural, just lacked the experience with floggers and other "implements". It worked well for me because: 1) He was very sexy and attractive! and 2) Having gotten to know him, I knew that he was cautious and trustworthy and had done as much "hands off" learning as he could.

The scenes were not the most exciting I ever had physically, because my limits were not really approached and I prefer it when they are, but as I said, he was a natural Dominant personality-wise and very attractive and I enjoyed it very much on an emotional plane.

We drifted apart when I met the Dominant I have been with for a while now, but see each other from time to time at munches, etc. and he seems to be quite happily progressing in his Dom life!

- justina

 

[Pixie Mischief]

I was wondering that. can someone be a Dom and not know it???

 

[slvjenn]

i didn't read all of that...i stopped where you said that you took a "virgin" sub to safeword...

if i had been brought to the point where i needed to safeword the first time i ever tried any form of BDSM i'd prolly have never returned.

I don't think that it should ever ever ever be the purpose of a dom to bring a submissive to safeword. If he or she safewords that means that you went to far. That means that you didn't read his/her signals as to where their limits were. You forced the submissive to exert control over the situation that was previously under your control.

When you talk about it being "harder" to dom I think that you can only speak for yourself. Sure, it *MAY* be physicly more dificult, or mentaly more difficult to keep the scene moving BUT....

Is it REALLY harder to bring a belt/strap/crop/flogger through the air than it is to take the sting at the other end? Is it really harder to tell a submissive to do a chore than it is to actually perform that chore? Is it harder to cum on a sheet than it is to suck the cum out of it? Is it harder to be called master in public or to call someone else master in public?

See, while i've never been in a dominant role in a BDSM relationship, I have no doubt that I could do it fairly easily. I can't say I know i'd be "good" at it, but I could do it. "Subbing" on the other hand to me is difficult. To swallow my pride and to call him sir or master with a waiter standing at our table, to ask, "anything else master" after bringing him a beer while he's watching sports with his friends.

So to sum this all up...Being a dom may be difficult in some ways, force the person to be more creative, keep a higher level of attention to certain things, being on the bottom presents it's own difficulties that are perhaps less tangable but are more deeply rooted.

 

[Ebonyfire]

My answer to all of these are a resounding No!. You can't know how to dominate someone if you've never been dominated. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Well, if that is the way you need things to be, then that is how you should have it.

One thing about this lifestyle I really like, is that if you search long enough, you can find the right partner.

 

[Zaudika]

I was wondering that. can someone be a Dom and not know it???

I suppose that this could be a reality if someone had never experienced any kind of Dominant or submissive lifestyle. Eventually though, I'm sure that person would discover they had those tendancies, and hopefully do something to explore them more.
This kind of hits on the fact that I think it's not necessary, but perhaps good for anyone to try both sides of the spectrum at least once. Among other things, it broadens your views, and who knows that person may discover things that they enjoy, want, or like that they hadn't thought of before.

 

[Ezarc]

I was wondering that. can someone be a Dom and not know it???

I didn't know. Didn't have a clue about being Dom. Had some minor fantasies but for the most part had no intrest at all. And then, I met a person that wanted to try more bdsm and for her being a sub. Wasn't sure at first and still unsure at times(still learning) but it all makes sense and the feel, oh what a rush.

 

[lark sparrow]

Though I've never seen a sadistic submissive, I guess they'd be a bit rarer.

Just a quick note to add that I tend to have a bit of a sadistic streak in my also, much to my Master's disapproval at times. Like Pixie, my main things is the biting, sometimes other things also. I love watching how the body reactions, love the noises that come from the other person when I do things. It's addicting in a way. Enough so that I get myself into trouble at times.

Because of the at times strong sadistic streak, I have also in the past explored my role as a Dominant, and have Dominated a couple people, in my past relationship with a switch, and also in a scene with a friend. Honestly, I was just never comfortable with it. I know it's not my place.

I have a bit of a sadistic streak as well.

Although my natural lines are pretty sharply drawn - I would have a difficult time giving Mistress pain even if She wanted it, and luckily She doesn't. If She ever did, I guess I would have to use the psychology of receiving pain as Her pleasure and directive. Fortunately, I don't think I have to worry about it and there are plenty of other areas to push.

But in the past, in being in a toppier short-term situation, being somewhat sadistic physically or psychologically doesn't phase me, as in I can do it and enjoy. However, it wouldn't work for me in a D/s relationship, just in a limited scene. No desire to be on top or sadistic in my primary relationship, and it's not allowed anyhow.

 

[psiberzerker]

Yes, you can have a dominant personality with out knowing it. Heres where we get back into semantics, though. A dominant personality is fairly common out there, but that doesn't make you a Dom/me. It helps, but there's more to it than just ordering people around. SEXUAL Dominance requires insights, and skills that are hard to find in the real world. That's why I insist on some BDSM experience (Or training) for neophyte Dom/mes.
As for taking a virgin to safe word, that's a misunderstanding. I use a set of safe words from "That's right" to "STOP!" the one I took her too was equivalent to "Slow down" and she was well aware of it. Seccondly, this wasn't her first scene, just the first with someone else running it.
She was a self inflictor, a sexual masochist who'd turned to autoerotica because she couldn't really find anyone to play with. Other than the lack of playmates, she was experienced in pain. I only feared that she'd escalate from the psuedocidal to actually convince herself that she wanted to die. It was a complex situation, and relationship that I had trouble communicating through this particular interface.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

hmmm OK hehe just trying to understand my bf.
hes... unusual LOL
for a while I though all men where like him. I never had a bf..
but no I dont believe that all guys are like him.
Cant complain though hes a great cook can be romantic is sweet funny open minded ect all things I look for.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Natural Dominants/Natural Submissives

There are people are are naturals. they are predisposed to either behavior, it comes naturally to them. However, they still need to learn the tools of the trade to be safe.

If you want more information on Natural dominants and submissives, you can do a google search.

 

[Netzach]

I'm also a Dom maso, with the ability to bottom to the right people.

I don't think you *have* to submit or bottom up or start on the bottom to be a good Dom.

I know only two things:

that's how *I* had to do it, and I don't think there was a better way for *me* to learn. I can't imagine not having bottomed.

I prefer to bottom to people who did it that way, we speak the same language and are on the same page more, share a common set of experiences and values that I just don't and can't share with a Dom-only Dom.

In fact, I enjoy bottoming to the sado-subs the most of all, they tend to have the most pent-up wickedness to inflict and the most fun doing it! (that, and I know that I can get hurt just how I want to get hurt and there's no hard feelings)

Yes, they sure do exist!