Idiots!

[FGB]

I don't know HOW well it works but I have some of these.


Better than nothing I guess...

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...pirator-8516-n95-technical-specifications.pdf

https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/resources/dust-masks-whats-the-difference.html


Are N95 Masks Really Effective against the flu?

A little online research will reveal that the flu virus is .17 microns in size. Clearly smaller than even N100 masks can filter out. However, it is critical to understand that the flu virus does not float in the air by itself. The flu virus is transported from patient to patient on droplets of excretions from sneezing and coughing. These particles are typically 5 microns or larger. When a sick patient wears a respirator, the respirator can be very effective at preventing infectious material from leaving the patients body, and when worn by healthy individuals, it prevents inhalation of said material. More importantly, wearing a mask is a excellent way of preventing the user from rubbing or touching their mouth or nose, which is a very high risk factor. At the end of the day will an N95 mask guarantee to protect you from the Flu? No. But it can substantially reduce your risk or receiving or transmitting the disease.

 

[Klinkster]

Most places I have read, stated the the virus is .125 um.
Also, that the virus can linger in the air, for 3 hours.
- how much moisture is still eft after and hour or two?
N95, or N100 masks, are physically tested, with particulates of .3 um.
.3 um is the ‘standard’ for approvals by NIOSH, FDA etc respirators.
Why doesn’t some one physically test them, with .1 um particulates?

Again, not arguing that they don’t help. The question is how much? We have a whole lot of front line responders catching the virus. Why? Is part of that the fact that the genuine N95 masks are not a ‘gimmee’ for stopping it?

And then, for the peasants, since it’s extremely difficult to obtain an N95’s, home made masks are now OK? When masks Of all kinds were considered not effective at the onset of this mess? (At least....Not for the peasants)
What is the beta ratio on a mask made from t-shirt material, or a pillow case? Certainly, not as efficient as a real one, no?
So....how abut someone physically test some of those too?

‘Must’ be better than nothing, but enough better than nothing?
WE DON’T KNOW.

 

[FGB]

No we do not.

A guy Iuse to work with be fore he was laid off had a mask made by someone sewing them up

It had a "compartment" sewed into it for folding paper towels or whatever to increase the filtration level.

He used an Industrial red paper towel for cleaning. they are tough and thick and my opinion you could not get enough air through them to do any good.

What it would do is to cause you to intake air in from the SIDES of the mask which defeats the purpose anyway!

 

[Klinkster]

Just for shits and giggles, the average paper coffee filter, is 20 um or greater.
Try Breathing through one of those.

 

[HisArpy]

No we do not.

A guy Iuse to work with be fore he was laid off had a mask made by someone sewing them up

It had a "compartment" sewed into it for folding paper towels or whatever to increase the filtration level.

He used an Industrial red paper towel for cleaning. they are tough and tick and my opinion you could not get enough air through them to do any good.

What it would do is to cause you to intake air in from the SIDES of the mask which defeats the purpose anyway!

Even an N95 leaks. Then there's the fact that no mask works worth a dam if you have facial hair. How's that 5 o'clock shadow?

The ONLY sure way to ensure non-contamination is to use a self contained air supply system and hazmat suit. And even then, decontamination isn't 100% effective so you'd have to wear the suit forever without any bathroom breaks.

Good luck!

 

[Klinkster]

Yes indeed. The disposables, which fit quite nicely, in comparison to a surgical or home made mask, leak a lot.

For reusables, many places I worked, we required you carry one, in case you need it.
For one, facial hair was not allowed, unless it fit within the inside of the mask.
Next, we tested the fit, to get the best fit. This was done with the victim wearing a mask, breathing normally, while banana oil (gas) was released around the mask, unless we were feeling particularly mean, and we used mercaptan. Talk, breathe, and smell nothing.....good to go.

We stocked 3 or 4 different brands, in all available sizes, and would select the mask by the best and 100% seal. The model & size went in the employees file.

 

[FGB]

Yes indeed. The disposables, which fit quite nicely, in comparison to a surgical or home made mask, leak a lot.

For reusables, many places I worked, we required you carry one, in case you need it.
For one, facial hair was not allowed, unless it fit within the inside of the mask.
Next, we tested the fit, to get the best fit. This was done with the victim wearing a mask, breathing normally, while banana oil (gas) was released around the mask, unless we were feeling particularly mean, and we used mercaptan. Talk, breathe, and smell nothing.....good to go.

We stocked 3 or 4 different brands, in all available sizes, and would select the mask by the best and 100% seal. The model & size went in the employees file.

Well See, THAT makes too much sense for the people I work for.

Only certain people are required to wear them...I do not because ((% percent of the time I am in my office down in the basement with filtered,cooled and dehumidified air. i use a bunch of hand and air disinfectant too!

 

[Klinkster]

In mines, respirator requirements are based on the area, and/or, the task.
Many mines, no matter if you need one or not, if you go underground, you will be fitted for one, and you will carry it with you. They are free issue to the miners.

Disposables, are generally for visitors, and for specific tasks, mostly on the surface that require one.

 

[icanhelp1]

In mines, respirator requirements are based on the area, and/or, the task.
Many mines, no matter if you need one or not, if you go underground, you will be fitted for one, and you will carry it with you. They are free issue to the miners.

Disposables, are generally for visitors, and for specific tasks, mostly on the surface that require one.

Your experience with respirator is way over the heads of most posters. There's a big difference between a paper mask ( n-95 ) which are not sealed and not very efficient as compared to a sealed and fitted mask which is usually used with filtration cartridges ( rated in microns and in many cases have activated charcoal filter cartridges. The use of banana oil is to insure a perfect seal so no outside element or contaminated air is ingested into your lungs and usually worn with chemical goggles. I know you know all about this, just expanding a little on key differences between paper mask and a full respirator not to be compared to an external breathing apparatus.

 

[Klinkster]

That’s the thing! Disposable filters, are always a poor fit.
It was no easy thing to get a good fit with a half face rubber mask. That’s why we had so many different styles and sizes, and often, it took several tests, trial & error, to get the right mask to the face. IMPORTANT, if you want it to work.

Most approved respirator filters, are 95% / .3 um, as well as different cartridges for different gasses. I would really like to know how efficient are any of them, even with a perfect 100% seal, with .12 um particulates, since that is the size of the virus. All we know, is it will filter ‘some’ (Well....duh)
And, since they are recommending that the peasants wear home made masks, just how efficient are they?

Data please. Numbers please.
Convince us peasants that they are worthwhile.....you know.....with that science stuff.......

How does anyone, rightfully, recommend anything if they do not know how well it performs?

Your experience with respirator is way over the heads of most posters. There's a big difference between a paper mask ( n-95 ) which are not sealed and not very efficient as compared to a sealed and fitted mask which is usually used with filtration cartridges ( rated in microns and in many cases have activated charcoal filter cartridges. The use of banana oil is to insure a perfect seal so no outside element or contaminated air is ingested into your lungs and usually worn with chemical goggles. I know you know all about this, just expanding a little on key differences between paper mask and a full respirator not to be compared to an external breathing apparatus.

 

[FGB]

I don't know how old most posters here are but the people my age grew up with the threat of instant destruction of large cities and towns and germ warfare or a combination of both with possible invasion and extermination.

It just this simple...
You take all the information you can get your hands on,keep updating it, researching it, and make the best choices you can within your means.

Contacting your higher power doesn't hurt anything!

YOUR PRAYERS,YOUR MASK...YOUR DISINFECTANT AND YOUR GUN.

DON'T LEAVE HOME WITH OUT THEM!

 

[Klinkster]

Ahh yes.....air raid drills!
What a fun way to get out of class....even if it was just a part of it!

I don't know how old most posters here are but the people my age grew up with the threat of instant destruction of large cities and towns and germ warfare or a combination of both with possible invasion and extermination.

It just this simple...
You take all the information you can get your hands on,keep updating it, researching it, and make the best choices you can within your means.

Contacting your higher power doesn't hurt anything!

YOUR PRAYERS,YOUR MASK...YOUR DISINFECTANT AND YOUR GUN.

DON'T LEAVE HOME WITH OUT THEM!

 

[Klinkster]

Problem is, we don’t have the information.

“Masks won’t help. No reason the public should wear them”
Then.....
“Wear masks when out in public”
With the caveat, “home made masks are fine”

A clue or two as to what changed would be pleasant, no?

data please.

I don't know how old most posters here are but the people my age grew up with the threat of instant destruction of large cities and towns and germ warfare or a combination of both with possible invasion and extermination.

It just this simple...
You take all the information you can get your hands on,keep updating it, researching it, and make the best choices you can within your means.

Contacting your higher power doesn't hurt anything!

YOUR PRAYERS,YOUR MASK...YOUR DISINFECTANT AND YOUR GUN.

DON'T LEAVE HOME WITH OUT THEM!

 

[phrodeau]

You should do something you have never done, and answer a question.

Or admit, you can’t.

I’m not disputing that a mask is better than none.
The question is, how much better? Enough to make it worthwhile?
I want a number.
You don’t know.

The President never answers questions. He never wears a mask either.

I’m wondering what “worthwhile” means in that context.

 

[Klinkster]

The President never answers questions. He never wears a mask either.

I’m wondering what “worthwhile” means in that context.

Yes he does. You just don’t like the answers.

If you don’t understand, you are too stupid to be here.

 

[icanhelp1]

That’s the thing! Disposable filters, are always a poor fit.
It was no easy thing to get a good fit with a half face rubber mask. That’s why we had so many different styles and sizes, and often, it took several tests, trial & error, to get the right mask to the face. IMPORTANT, if you want it to work.

Most approved respirator filters, are 95% / .3 um, as well as different cartridges for different gasses. I would really like to know how efficient are any of them, even with a perfect 100% seal, with .12 um particulates, since that is the size of the virus. All we know, is it will filter ‘some’ (Well....duh)
And, since they are recommending that the peasants wear home made masks, just how efficient are they?

Data please. Numbers please.
Convince us peasants that they are worthwhile.....you know.....with that science stuff.......

How does anyone, rightfully, recommend anything if they do not know how well it performs?

I agree! In biological warfare you're using activated charcoal cartridges and a complete seal, usually full face. A Paper mask ( covid-19 ) is only as effective as in if everyone one is using it so you can get the benefit of both an offensive and defensive posture. A paper mask will contain a moist droplet which expands the size of the contaminant. A paper mask would be useless against a single dry viral mass. When we were issued a full respirator mask we had to be evaluated by a pulmonologist and given a full pulmonary function test. A person with asthma could find themselves in deep shit wearing a sealed system, too much of a strain on the lungs. There are different filters, chemical, dust and bio and yes, in chem and bio environment there is a decontamination process and filters become hazmat. In this general environment approved paper mask work if everyone is wearing one. Living in MA I have to wear a mask and after, I leave it on my dashboard in the sun ( UV radiation ) Not handling a paper mask properly if contaminated defeats the purpose and negates it's protective value if not disposed of properly. You have to do the self seal test by covering your intake and suck in, your mask should collapse and not allow air into the mask.

A false sense of security exist with paper mask, not meant to be exposed in a high impacted area without a face shield.

Working in mines I'm sure is a very dangerous environment and probably requires a whole range of PPE to include EBA.

 

[Klinkster]

The false sense of security is what I am wondering about.
That’s why I want to see numbers, from actual physical tests, which are easily doable. They did tests on some N95 disposable masks that the feds issued to some state recently......I forget which one. Some of them failed. Chances are, they were old stock, and had expired.
Sittin’ on the dashboard.....they will expre rather quickly.

Underground, we are all required to carry a self rescuer. Mandatory after the Sunshine fire. It’s a small breathing apparatus that converts carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide.

When it comes to Dragers, and other air or O2 breathing apparatuses, that’s a whole different and more intense bunch of training, and generally done by mine rescue people & teams. Miners are taught the basics of them, but that’s usually about all. Most of those people that are fully trained, are miners.

I agree! In biological warfare you're using activated charcoal cartridges and a complete seal, usually full face. A Paper mask ( covid-19 ) is only as effective as in if everyone one is using it so you can get the benefit of both an offensive and defensive posture. A paper mask will contain a moist droplet which expands the size of the contaminant. A paper mask would be useless against a single dry viral mass. When we were issued a full respirator mask we had to be evaluated by a pulmonologist and given a full pulmonary function test. A person with asthma could find themselves in deep shit wearing a sealed system, too much of a strain on the lungs. There are different filters, chemical, dust and bio and yes, in chem and bio environment there is a decontamination process and filters become hazmat. In this general environment approved paper mask work if everyone is wearing one. Living in MA I have to wear a mask and after, I leave it on my dashboard in the sun ( UV radiation ) Not handling a paper mask properly if contaminated defeats the purpose and negates it's protective value if not disposed of properly. You have to do the self seal test by covering your intake and suck in, your mask should collapse and not allow air into the mask.

A false sense of security exist with paper mask, not meant to be exposed in a high impacted area without a face shield.

Working in mines I'm sure is a very dangerous environment and probably requires a whole range of PPE to include EBA.

 

[phrodeau]

Yes he does. You just don’t like the answers.

If you don’t understand, you are too stupid to be here.

The only context that makes sense is that you don’t want to lose the freedom to spew your exhaust onto your neighbors.

 

[Klinkster]

The only context that makes sense is that you don’t want to lose the freedom to spew your exhaust onto your neighbors.

That is your assumption, and an incorrect one.

If someone wants to demand that I wear a mask, then I deserve to know the data, AKA, the science behind that demand.

Over your head? If so, should someone tell you, "put on these Nikes, drink this KoolAid, and lay down and wait for the mother ship to beam you up"......I suggest you ask for the science.

 

[TwinkleStars]

Yes they do.
and HD trash bags
and newwater closet seats ! (commode seats!)

I learned something new. Thanks.

 

[coati]

That is your assumption, and an incorrect one.

If someone wants to demand that I wear a mask, then I deserve to know the data, AKA, the science behind that demand.

Over your head? If so, should someone tell you, "put on these Nikes, drink this KoolAid, and lay down and wait for the mother ship to beam you up"......I suggest you ask for the science.

The data behind the request for the public to wear a mask in public comes from the lab experiments regarding the velocity and distance range of exhaled vapor particles. Any obstruction you wear as a face mask can reduce this distance range.

Remember when Fauci said that the revised policy recommendation had to do with protecting others, not protecting yourself, per se? That's because heavy breathers and sneezers and coughers and singers and shouters who might happen to be infected can moderate the velocity and distance range of their exhaled vapor particles by wearing a face mask. This also can help reduce the initial dosage of virus particles to those around you.

And if you get a good enough mask, you can indeed reduce your personal exposure to other people's exhaled vapor particles.

FGB is right when he points out that this is not a matter of achieving perfection. This is a matter of reducing risks, not eliminating them.

 

[phrodeau]

That is your assumption, and an incorrect one.

If someone wants to demand that I wear a mask, then I deserve to know the data, AKA, the science behind that demand.

Over your head? If so, should someone tell you, "put on these Nikes, drink this KoolAid, and lay down and wait for the mother ship to beam you up"......I suggest you ask for the science.

I wonder what you’d demand if you’re refused service in a restaurant for not wearing shoes.

 

[Klinkster]

I have seen no such data, or even a summary, on any such tests. I did read, that many believed that the virus is simply exhaled, cough or sneeze not required.
I have seen no data regarding the size of the particles exhaled.
I have seen no data, on the size of the particles exhaled, after an hour....or two.

I have seen not beta ration tests, on any masks, with .01 um particles.

Got it?
Get it?
I doubt it.

That is not to say, that I don't believe that any mask, will do something. Like I said, a burlap mask would catch some .12 um particles, but again, how many out of 3 million?

Just how much something? That, is measurable.

They want to demand I wear one, OK, give me the science.
Seems to be too much for you to ask.

Question: Just what is, a 'good enough mask'?
Answer: You don't know.

The data behind the request for the public to wear a mask in public comes from the lab experiments regarding the velocity and distance range of exhaled vapor particles. Any obstruction you wear as a face mask can reduce this distance range.

Remember when Fauci said that the revised policy recommendation had to do with protecting others, not protecting yourself, per se? That's because heavy breathers and sneezers and coughers and singers and shouters who might happen to be infected can moderate the velocity and distance range of their exhaled vapor particles by wearing a face mask. This also can help reduce the initial dosage of virus particles to those around you.

And if you get a good enough mask, you can indeed reduce your personal exposure to other people's exhaled vapor particles.

FGB is right when he points out that this is not a matter of achieving perfection. This is a matter of reducing risks, not eliminating them.

 

[Klinkster]

I wonder what you’d demand if you’re refused service in a restaurant for not wearing shoes.

The owners of the restaurant, can demand I wear whatever they like.
I have the choice not to go to their restaurant.

To demand I wear a mask when I walk to the mail box.....sorry.....no.
My closest neighbor, is a mile away.

You seem to fail to grasp anything.

 

[Rotadom]

I have seen no such data, or even a summary, on any such tests. I did read, that many believed that the virus is simply exhaled, cough or sneeze not required.
I have seen no data regarding the size of the particles exhaled.
I have seen no data, on the size of the particles exhaled, after an hour....or two.

I have seen not beta ration tests, on any masks, with .01 um particles.

You have less knowledge than the uninformed President.