I'd appreciate some advice

[Alex De Kok]

I consider myself to have a reasonable command of (English) English and I have one or two books on writing, but I don't have an English grammar book. Can anyone recommend one? Ideally I'd appreciate suggestions for both English English and American English.

When I think how much I disliked some of this at school and how fascinating I now find language...

Alex

 

[Weird Harold]

I consider myself to have a reasonable command of (English) English and I have one or two books on writing, but I don't have an English grammar book. Can anyone recommend one? Ideally I'd appreciate suggestions for both English English and American English.

When I think how much I disliked some of this at school and how fascinating I now find language...

Alex

The Chicago Manual of Style is the definitive reference for American English grammar.

There is a British equivalent to tCMoS, but I don't recall the name just off hand -- I think it's by the London Times(?)

 

[Un-registered]

... but I don't have an English grammar book. Can anyone recommend one? ...

Fowler's Modern English Usage and a pair of books by Sir Ernest Gowers, called Plain Words and More Plain Words are the usually quoted texts.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Chicago Manual of Style is the most definitive fro American English, as Harold says, but I also have bought some used high school grammar textbooks which I find uncommonly useful.

I'm not even sure if they still teach grammar in American schools. I know for a fact that \, around here at least, they didn't teach spelling for several years, on the grounds that the idea of correct spelling stifled creativity. Of course, the kids knew that they were being played with and that they didn't know how to spell, and so all that succeeded in doing was making the kids feel like idiots.

---dr.M.

 

[Un-registered]

I'm not even sure if they still teach grammar in American schools.

My ex-wife taught French and German in an English school some years ago and used to complain bitterly that the first year had to be spent teaching English grammar so that she could then proceed to the foreign language. An example was that the word 'verb' had become verboten and 'doing word' was the fashionable term. The concepts of declension and conjugation were completely absent from English Language teaching in England for some years. Today the children suffer from the fact that many of their teachers did not learn grammar when they were at school.

 

[wildsweetone]

The concepts of declension and conjugation were completely absent from English Language teaching in England for some years

and can i be blamed for not understanding a word of the mechanics of writing when these kinds of expressions are used?

mind you... declension sounds like it should belong on the bdsm forum... (but i wouldn't have known that before litland)

what the heck is it?

and yes, i'm sorry to say, i'm laughing at my own ineptness for a change. well, it's either laugh or bang my head against a brick wall.

i have, Modern English Usage HW Fowler, The Kings English, HW and FG Fowler and i've found both handy at times.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

I use "The Complete Works of Lewis Carroll". The section entitled "Symbolic Logic" is especially helpful when deciphering posts on the Lit forums, too.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Go to a bookstore and browse. It does no good to own a grammar guide that you can't use comfortably. I have eight of them and climbing. I rather collect these things. The one I use most often is a very slim volume by Websters since it sits comfortably on my desk where I can get at it and doesn't take up a lot of space. It was also free and the first one I ever picked up.

 

[jfinn]

I've always been partial to Strunk's Elements of Style often referred to as "the little book". Guess that's what I like about it, it's short.

Jayne

 

[sack_lunches]

Strunk's Elements of Style, as previously cited, is an excellent resource. It is also a little more accessible than the Chicago Manual.

It should be noted that (Kate?) Turabian's grammar guide and a standard academic MLA guide are good places to get very specific, example-oriented grammar notes.

Good luck.

 

[fiery_jack]

and can i be blamed for not understanding a word of the mechanics of writing when these kinds of expressions are used?

mind you... declension sounds like it should belong on the bdsm forum... (but i wouldn't have known that before litland)

what the heck is it?

Isn't it when you relax your buttocks after trying to stop things escaping?

 

[Un-registered]

Isn't it when you relax your buttocks after trying to stop things escaping?

No, no. It is part of what happens to a normal male. First come conjugation, then ejaculation, then declension.

 

[Alex De Kok]

Thank you one and all

for the advice and recommendations. The Chicago manual is beyond my budget at the moment (new, that is) but, after checking Amazon, Fowler and Gowers are possibles. I've already acquired an Elements of Style, which I like. Declension and conjugation I vaguely remember from my (long-ago) school days. Among the reasons I posted the query in the first place!

Killermuffin, as usual the nail has been firmly struck square on the head. Armed with the information from the group, I shall indeed browse the book stores. In a city with two universities, we have some good ones.

Again, thank you one and all for your contributions, including the welcome touch of humour from openthighs_sarah, fiery_jack and Un-registered. Whether the advice and any subsequent acquisition will actually improve my writing is, of course, a moot point.

Alex

PS: Anyone got a muse they can loan to me? Mine has done a runner again...

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Thank you one and all

Alex

PS: Anyone got a muse they can loan to me? Mine has done a runner again...

I have too many muses. They argue and contradict each other. The only thing they agree on is that my writing isn't good enough for them.

They keep telling me to read books on how to write, and then they want me to break the rules I've just read.

They are arguing about which of them should help. I'm trying to influence them to select one as a delegate. They seem to be close to agreeing that Frances should be nominated. She appears in "The Bridesmaids' Revenge" and also inspired "His Bad Hair Day". She is a hairdresser but has a brain, is fit because she plays football, and is underemployed this week.

Have a look at her work in those stories and if you ask her nicely she might condescend to help. If she does it will be a break for me because I'll have one less to satisfy this week.

Regards,

Og.