I want, oh my yes I want

[SeaCat]

Browsing through a catalogue of knives this afternoon I saw a couple of items I want. The first is a knife called an Ulu. Talk about a great all around kitchen knife.

The second though has me drooling. This is a Katana made in Japan by some of the masters of the craft. This one is different though, they make it with Damascus Steel. Oh I'm liking this one, it is absolutely beautiful.

Cat

 

[rgraham666]

Cool. I want the katana.

Isn't Japanese steel generally regarded a superior to Damascene?

 

[SeaCat]

Cool. I want the katana.

Isn't Japanese steel generally regarded a superior to Damascene?

Usually yes because of the way it is folded and hammered. This though is Damascus Steel that is hammered and folded in the traditional Japanese manner.

Cat

 

[buxxxom]

How are those different from Solingen steel? Post links to the pics?

 

[jomar]

I have an ulu, used it a lot when I chopped stuff - good tool.

http://www.kitchen-universe.com/images/Adams-Ulu-Board.jpg

 

[SeaCat]

How are those different from Solingen steel? Post links to the pics?

Lets see if I can post a picture for you. (Yes I did find one although it doesn't show the detail of the blade the printed catalogue does.)

Damascus Katana

Cat

 

[The_Fool]

I was under the impression that the metal techniques for both Japanese blades and Damascus blades were the same. That is, start with a block of iron, and a block of steel and weld them together. Then continuously fold and hammer flat, giving the swirly appearance of the metal. As I recall, the best blades were something like 512 folds.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

How are those different from Solingen steel? Post links to the pics?

Solingen steel is a particular steel formula from Solingen, Germany which is the center of Germany's cutlery industry. Solingen stell is not folded, it is forged in a single layer and is very hard. The hardness is good for maintaing edge sharpness as any chef will tell you is important in the kitchen. It is not very flexible, though making it a poor choice for battle implements as they would break under the shock of striking something hard with that force.

Damascus steel is a type of folded steel originating from Damascus in what is now Syria. Steel was fired, adding a coating of carbon, then folded and forged until the the two sides of the fold had welded themselves together. It was then fired and folded again.

Contrary to popular belief neither this steel nor the Japanese folded steels were ever folded "a thousand times". Blades of this type might have a thousand or more layers but was rarely folded more than 10 times.

The carbon coating from firing the steel never worked completely in the steel and when polished it had lines or stripes of darker and lighter colored metal.

The Japanese did things essentially the same way but started with a steel that had a highr carbon content to start with and added less carbon in the firing proccess. Their blade were then differentially tempered. Clay was wrapped around the spine of the blade to insulate it from the heat of the tempering fire. The blade would be put into 1300 degree fire for several hours then pulled out and immediately quenched in ice cold water. This quenching proccess hardens the steel to actually harder than Solingen steel. However, with the spine and two thirds of the blade insulated from the heat, it remained springy and thus able to withstand and even cushion the blows of battle without breaking.

The Japanese had several ways of making their blades, folded steel being one of them but not the most common. Other styles included wrapping a hard core and edge with a softer steel and forging to make the soft spine/hard edge. Most common was the use of a single high carbon steel that was differentially tempered as this was the true key to the great Japanese Katanas.

Folded steel is also dificult to maintain, while it does have a good hardness to springiness ratio the layers often chipped away in battle and a well used sword might last only a day of fighting before it was so badly damaged that it was unrepairable. Most of the multi-fold Japanese swords were used as dress pieces by Shoguns and the highest ranking Samurai.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

Lets see if I can post a picture for you. (Yes I did find one although it doesn't show the detail of the blade the printed catalogue does.)

Damascus Katana

Cat

I would be wary of anything from Atlanta Cutlery. Be sure before you buy it that it is not "Etched" or "Acid" Damascus. Those are generally 440 stainless that have been either laser engraved or acid etched to create "the" look of Damascus without the high price. If they are pricing that sword at less than $1200 don't buy it. It is most likely cheap crap in a shiny box. I would also ask if they used a genuine silk tsuka ito and genuine ray skin for the tsuka same (pronounced sah-may). If not it's a cheap reproduction.

 

[buxxxom]

I am a kitchen knife-a-holic. I don't have many, but when they are quality, you don't need many!

 

[McKenna]

I bought two Wüsthof-Dreizack knives when I visited Berlin years ago. Those are the two best knives I own, though when I returned to the States I bought a cheaper J. A. Henckels set that serves me well. The Wüsthof knives are particularly well-balanced. A good knife makes all the difference.



http://www.kookwinkel.nl/upload/Producten/Snijden/Wusthof/Meer/tn/IMG_6580%20Wusthof%20dreizack%20messenset%204582-20%204522-16%204066-9.jpg

 

[jomar]

I am a kitchen knife-a-holic. I don't have many, but when they are quality, you don't need many!

Agreed. I've had 3 or 4 Henckels 4-star for more years than I care to remember and they've been great.

 

[scriptordelecto]

I would be wary of anything from Atlanta Cutlery. Be sure before you buy it that it is not "Etched" or "Acid" Damascus. Those are generally 440 stainless that have been either laser engraved or acid etched to create "the" look of Damascus without the high price. If they are pricing that sword at less than $1200 don't buy it. It is most likely cheap crap in a shiny box. I would also ask if they used a genuine silk tsuka ito and genuine ray skin for the tsuka same (pronounced sah-may). If not it's a cheap reproduction.

Remind me to PM you next time I'm doing weapons research.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

Remind me to PM you next time I'm doing weapons research.

You're welcome to. I know less of blades than I do of firearms but blades have been of more interest to me lately.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

I bought two Wüsthof-Dreizack knives when I visited Berlin years ago. Those are the two best knives I own, though when I returned to the States I bought a cheaper J. A. Henckels set that serves me well. The Wüsthof knives are particularly well-balanced. A good knife makes all the difference.



http://www.kookwinkel.nl/upload/Producten/Snijden/Wusthof/Meer/tn/IMG_6580%20Wusthof%20dreizack%20messenset%204582-20%204522-16%204066-9.jpg

Wustof is great. I have 7" & 9" chef's knives but my favorite is my Kyocera 5.5" Santoku. It's made from Zirconium Oxide Ceramic. Never, ever dulls, slices tomatos paper thin without "sawing" and best of all my food isn't discolored after a few minutes. You see most fruits turn brown because the steel blade you cut them with reacts to acid in the fruit and causes it to oxidize. Ceramic blades don't do that. You can slice and apple with this knife and leave it on the counter until it's completely dried out and it won't turn brown.

Steel blades also leave a funny colored sheen on most meats for the same reason. Ceramics don't. I have a Boker 7"chef's knife of titanium that's the same way.

 

[Dar~]

I love Ulu knives. When I lived in Anchorage i picked one up. It has so many uses and makes such fast work of chopping and even filleting.

 

[Vermilion]

I have one half decent knife which I love (Sabatier steel) very small vegetable knife, but it does discolour food. When I get married kitchen knives are going on the list - any suggestions for 2 or 3 really good knives that should cover most kitchen eventualities?
x
V

 

[DerelictionOfSanity]

wow. The best knife in my house came in a big variety pack, the whole thing priced down to $10 US. It's got a great edge, cuts quite thin without squashing or discoloring and I haven't the faintest idea what it's made out of or even who makes it. (It was, however, the only really good knife in the batch)

I feel vaguely intimidated by you folks with your fancy cooking equipment (I grant you, if I ever needed to cut a pineapple in half in mid-air, I couldn't do it with any knife in the house)

 

[buxxxom]

I have one half decent knife which I love (Sabatier steel) very small vegetable knife, but it does discolour food. When I get married kitchen knives are going on the list - any suggestions for 2 or 3 really good knives that should cover most kitchen eventualities?
x
V

In my opinion, you could get by with either a chef's knife or Santoku (7"), a paring knife, serrated bread knife, and slicing knife. If you like Sabatier, then stick with them, but Wusthof is really good too, as is Global. That's really all you need. Don't put them in the dishwasher or in a drawer where they could bang around with other things. The easiest storage is to slap them onto a magnet stuck on the wall, plus it looks really cool.

 

[cloudy]

I can't use "good" knives because I'd cut my fingers off. Seriously.

 

[McKenna]

I can't use "good" knives because I'd cut my fingers off. Seriously.

Once or twice a year I give myself a good slice. It happens so regularly my husband has come to expect it.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

wow. The best knife in my house came in a big variety pack, the whole thing priced down to $10 US. It's got a great edge, cuts quite thin without squashing or discoloring and I haven't the faintest idea what it's made out of or even who makes it. (It was, however, the only really good knife in the batch)

I feel vaguely intimidated by you folks with your fancy cooking equipment (I grant you, if I ever needed to cut a pineapple in half in mid-air, I couldn't do it with any knife in the house)

My parrents went to an estate auction a couple of years ago, and got a couple of our best knives from this big cardboard box of miscelanious stuff they got for $10. The only brandname I remember from them is the Wustov, but there were a couple of other class knives in there that my mother uses all of the time now.

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

Kitchen knives are cool, but give me a good spatula any day.

 

[neonlyte]

Mine get sharpened by a gypsy. He comes around our part of town once a week, playing a up and down the scales on a 'pan pipe'; you can hear him a couple of streets away.

He pushes a bike with big pedal driven grindstone on the back, the bikes usually hung with umbrellas in various states of repair. He's a rugged handsome man (apart from the missing teeth), my wife interviewed him last year for an oral history project she's working on. He sharpened our knives at the same time and charged her 70 euros for the interview

 

[buxxxom]

I can't use "good" knives because I'd cut my fingers off. Seriously.

You have to use much less force to cut with a good sharp knife. When I'm at someone's house, using a crappy knife is when I cut myself. I'm trying way too hard. Try an experiment, slice a potato using a good sharp knife and a dull one. Use a potato instead of a tomato because of the crispness factor. See which is easiest to cut with.

I don't like the thoughts of AH'ers bleeding!