I need a tough critique...

[BooMerengue]

...for this poem. Well, maybe it's not a poem. I posted this in June of 2003 and tho the votes are good, there is only 1 comment.

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I'm going back thru all my 'work' and trying to find whats good and why. Don't be shy- just be honest. I'm tough.

 

[Angeline]

...for this poem. Well, maybe it's not a poem. I posted this in June of 2003 and tho the votes are good, there is only 1 comment.

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I'm going back thru all my 'work' and trying to find whats good and why. Don't be shy- just be honest. I'm tough.

Morning sweety.

I'll take a crack at this. I remember when you submitted it; it's not bad at all. In fact, I think it has some good things going for it. It's short and sorta abstract, but the images communicate clearly and are nicely balanced.

It could use some editing for punctuation, and I think reformatting would show its strengths more clearly. I'll get to that in a minute.

The real question as far as revising is what do you want to do with this poem? By that I mean do you want to expand it? What I see here is an image (the world breaking in two) that starts one way with the narrator and becomes something else, something opposite because the other person in the poem is failing somehow. That's good and interesting. The last line is an excellent way to end it. It pulls it together to create, overall, an arresting image.

You could expand on it, make it more detailed and narrative. I'm not sure that would make it better though; it might, but it then would be a different poem, yknow?

Here's one way you could revise it that I think shows off its strengths.

When you lifted my hips
to your mouth, I thought

The world will break in half,

but you were sick, falling.

When I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking.

I think a little more punctuation, like what I added, helps, but the main thing is to lose "sound" because you've already implied that it's a sound with "heard" and "cracking."

I also like taking "The world will break in half" (or however you want to say it) and putting it in italics or quotes. That gives the line emphasis so that you can almost hear the narrator saying it to herself.

Does all this make sense? (It may not cause I just took pain meds--don't ask, lol--and I feel sorta woozy.)

Anyway, hope my take on it helps.


Ange

 

[Liar]

...for this poem. Well, maybe it's not a poem. I posted this in June of 2003 and tho the votes are good, there is only 1 comment.

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I'm going back thru all my 'work' and trying to find whats good and why. Don't be shy- just be honest. I'm tough.

Hi! If you submitted this is June 2003, there was no public comments option back then, right? Most people read and vote/comment when a poem is fresh. So that might be the explanation.

Anyway, I like it. It has the same richness to it that all your writing have. It's hard to pinpoint wry, but a Boo poem always sounds like one. The only line I have a bit of a problem with is the second. It seems a bit too intense to me. Almost cliché-esque, in a way that the rest of the poem is not.

Dunno if that helps in any way, but there you have it.

#L

 

[WickedEve]

Angeline's edit is the way to go, Boo. I am impressed with the poem. I understand Liar's comment about the cliche line, but I think it works here. It would be nice to see another stanza or two, though.

 

[BooMerengue]

Good points! Thanks, you guys!

Let me see if I can explain my motives a bit... it may or may not help.

This is about a very intense short relationship. I do NOT like receiving oral sex, so the first line shows how far I was willing to go.

In the second line I placed the but to show that even trying as hard as I could and enjoying it for once,(read- "I'll do anything for you, baby!) I couldn't stop what was going to happen.

As far as punctuation, I didn't want to use any. I wrote this as an excercise in minimalism. But the commas are real important here. They give pause, and therefore I think make the action carry more weight. You can hear/feel that more if you read it aloud.

Ange? (I'm on pain meds, too, so anything sounds pretty good!!) I tried rewriting it as you suggested. But I like the way each line describes one action... no more- no less. And without the word 'sound' it seemed to lose some of it's balance.

Even when I'm trying to write using a prescribed form, I want to cut out all the unnecessary words. Which in poetry forms sometimes aborts the poem. You're right about 'sound' being redundant, but I think it leaves it a bit open ended w/o it.

Shit... Now that I've pissed off the diva of poetry, are there gonna be any other comments?? (You're right, Liar- I had forgotten about that.) (And Ange and I are soul sisters in a way so I'm sure she's laughing in a good natured way at my protestations.)

Thank you for this, Liar...but a Boo poem always sounds like one That gives me hope that I'm developing a style thats recognizable.

 

[Honey123]

Boo, I am really new to poetry, especially on Lit, but I enjoyed this poem although there is one line that I get a bit confused at what you mean:

"But you were sick,
And falling,"


Even after your explanation:

"In the second line I placed the but to show that even trying as hard as I could and enjoying it for once,(read- "I'll do anything for you, baby!) I couldn't stop what was going to happen."

I don't understand the "sick" part...I am sorry...does that word have a particular meaning other than "ailing" or going "mad" ~

Other than that...it is an intense poem ~ I am glad that he made you enjoy oral sex... to be made to realize that something you disliked could be earth shattering is special in itself, huh?

 

[annaswirls]

okay, so many times people say LOL and you know darn well they are not really laughing out loud.

Ange said something like- this is abstract, you could make it more lyrical.... something like that and I was thinking... this could be more minimialistic, more abstract LOL!!!

really
I made myself cough

this is kind of hard for me to relate to since, well, it really is not a sacrifice to me. hmm. Mine would be, When I went to iron your shirt, oh honey, I thought the world would break in half

I don't quite understand the sickness part-- but I left it in there since it is yours


I am going to give it a go.



the world did not break in half
as expected

hips lifted to mouth
your sickness overtakes my hesitance

falling,
I reach for you
slow in the distance,
a deep cracking sound

~

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

 

[annaswirls]

ooh I just read Ange's version ( I wanted to do my crituque before I read all the way through the others)

I think I like hers much better, i think it is interesting we both italicized the same basic part!

 

[Honey123]

The nerve I have, huh?

How is this:

I thought the world would break in half.
When you lifted my hips to your mouth
you were determined,
And I was falling, relenting to you
As I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound,
but simple words

Oh, honey

slipping
from my mouth,
silenced the noise.


Sorry, if I am stepping on toes and putting my two non "cents"ical" thoughts in

 

[Angeline]

Good points! Thanks, you guys!

Let me see if I can explain my motives a bit... it may or may not help.

This is about a very intense short relationship. I do NOT like receiving oral sex, so the first line shows how far I was willing to go.

In the second line I placed the but to show that even trying as hard as I could and enjoying it for once,(read- "I'll do anything for you, baby!) I couldn't stop what was going to happen.

As far as punctuation, I didn't want to use any. I wrote this as an excercise in minimalism. But the commas are real important here. They give pause, and therefore I think make the action carry more weight. You can hear/feel that more if you read it aloud.

Ange? (I'm on pain meds, too, so anything sounds pretty good!!) I tried rewriting it as you suggested. But I like the way each line describes one action... no more- no less. And without the word 'sound' it seemed to lose some of it's balance.

Even when I'm trying to write using a prescribed form, I want to cut out all the unnecessary words. Which in poetry forms sometimes aborts the poem. You're right about 'sound' being redundant, but I think it leaves it a bit open ended w/o it.

Shit... Now that I've pissed off the diva of poetry, are there gonna be any other comments?? (You're right, Liar- I had forgotten about that.) (And Ange and I are soul sisters in a way so I'm sure she's laughing in a good natured way at my protestations.)

Thank you for this, Liar...but a Boo poem always sounds like one That gives me hope that I'm developing a style thats recognizable.

You DO have a recognizable style. I think your stuff is usually narrative and honest. There's an authenticity that always comes across to me in your voice.

And I don wanna be a diva, ok? I makes me sound like Celine Dion and she makes my skin crawl, lol.

I am laughing, but I think it's partly cause I'm all effed up from the meds.

 

[BooMerengue]

Boo, I am really new to poetry, especially on Lit, but I enjoyed this poem although there is one line that I get a bit confused at what you mean:

"But you were sick,
And falling,"


Even after your explanation:

"In the second line I placed the but to show that even trying as hard as I could and enjoying it for once,(read- "I'll do anything for you, baby!) I couldn't stop what was going to happen."

I don't understand the "sick" part...I am sorry...does that word have a particular meaning other than "ailing" or going "mad" ~

Other than that...it is an intense poem ~ I am glad that he made you enjoy oral sex... to be made to realize that something you disliked could be earth shattering is special in itself, huh?

I guess sometimes it's really hard to explain what you mean. I'm failing here, I think.

He didn't make me enjoy oral sex- he made me enjoy doing something for him. Big difference.

This was a cyber relationship- but pretty intense for all that. Yes, I think he was sick crazy- not sick the flu.

My reaching out to him failed- he fell to his own demons anyway. So my world did break in half... not from pleasure but from the pain of parting from him.

Does that help? If not, keep arguing w/ me- it's all learning. lol

 

[BooMerengue]

You DO have a recognizable style. I think your stuff is usually narrative and honest. There's an authenticity that always comes across to me in your voice.

And I don wanna be a diva, ok? I makes me sound like Celine Dion and she makes my skin crawl, lol.

I am laughing, but I think it's partly cause I'm all effed up from the meds.

Bebe! You know I love you. And I can call you a diva if'n I want- I'll just do it in private, ok?

Are you ok, sweety? Can I help?

 

[Honey123]

I guess sometimes it's really hard to explain what you mean. I'm failing here, I think.

He didn't make me enjoy oral sex- he made me enjoy doing something for him. Big difference.

This was a cyber relationship- but pretty intense for all that. Yes, I think he was sick crazy- not sick the flu.

My reaching out to him failed- he fell to his own demons anyway. So my world did break in half... not from pleasure but from the pain of parting from him.

Does that help? If not, keep arguing w/ me- it's all learning. lol

Ahhh...well, that changes everything doesn't it???

My rewrite, which is now nonsense for sure, touches on the "YEAH BABY" thought!! LOL

 

[BooMerengue]

okay, so many times people say LOL and you know darn well they are not really laughing out loud.

Ange said something like- this is abstract, you could make it more lyrical.... something like that and I was thinking... this could be more minimialistic, more abstract LOL!!!

really
I made myself cough

this is kind of hard for me to relate to since, well, it really is not a sacrifice to me. hmm. Mine would be, When I went to iron your shirt, oh honey, I thought the world would break in half

I don't quite understand the sickness part-- but I left it in there since it is yours


I am going to give it a go.



the world did not break in half
as expected

hips lifted to mouth
your sickness overtakes my hesitance

falling,
I reach for you
slow in the distance,
a deep cracking sound

~

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

Well, crap... I think my explanation of the poem mired it deeper.

It's not at all about oral sex. It's not even about any sex. The sex is symbolic of what I was willing to give to help salvage this guy. And in the end I failed.

The world DID break in half; not from an orgasm, but from my own failure to save him from himself.

If I rewrite as some suggest it makes the poem about sex- thats not the case.

 

[Honey123]

Well, crap... I think my explanation of the poem mired it deeper.

It's not at all about oral sex. It's not even about any sex. The sex is symbolic of what I was willing to give to help salvage this guy. And in the end I failed.

The world DID break in half; not from an orgasm, but from my own failure to save him from himself.

If I rewrite as some suggest it makes the poem about sex- thats not the case.

Well, now your explanation makes perfect sense...problem is, most people reading it will lean towards the sex...

What if changing "sick" with "mad" and "falling" with "failing"

 

[Angeline]

Bebe! You know I love you. And I can call you a diva if'n I want- I'll just do it in private, ok?

Are you ok, sweety? Can I help?

You can call me whatever you want. You know that. But if you insist on calling me a diva, I'll...I'll...um...make faces at you. You know those irritated faces your kids make? And I'll make that tongue-clicky sound and mope, lol.

I have a sinus thingy and who knows maybe a virus thingy too. I'm taking antibiotics for that. Oh and I have that other thingy which is requiring the pain meds. I keep falling asleep and waking up and thinking I'm ok, then I get dizzy and crummy feeling again.

Can you come up here and make me chicken soup? And get me crayons and a coloring book--that's what my dad always did when I was sick.

Are you sick, too? Why don't you come up here anyway. We'll have a pajama party and uh do our nails and stuff.

 

[annaswirls]

Well, crap... I think my explanation of the poem mired it deeper.

It's not at all about oral sex. It's not even about any sex. The sex is symbolic of what I was willing to give to help salvage this guy. And in the end I failed.

The world DID break in half; not from an orgasm, but from my own failure to save him from himself.

If I rewrite as some suggest it makes the poem about sex- thats not the case.

dang Boo, sorry.


And I did not think it was all about oral sex, you said the one line was...

What exactly were you looking for? Just a nod if it is a good poem? Then nod nod it is

have a good one,

~anna

 

[BooMerengue]

dang Boo, sorry.


And I did not think it was all about oral sex, you said the one line was...

What exactly were you looking for? Just a nod if it is a good poem? Then nod nod it is

have a good one,

~anna

awww Anna! Thanks, hon. I just wondered cuz it's had a zillion views and some really good votes, but no comments. I thought it was bad. I truly didn't come here for atta girls- I like the feedback I'm getting. I just didn't realize how deep the poem was for me til I tried to explain it. Maybe some things should just be left alone, huh?

I do have some others I'm curious about. Wondering if I should put them here...

(I'm also finding out I'm not as thick skinned as I thought!) But thats ok, too- I need to get that way if I'm gonna grow!

Ange!

"Can you come up here and make me chicken soup? And get me crayons and a coloring book--that's what my dad always did when I was sick.

Are you sick, too? Why don't you come up here anyway. We'll have a pajama party and uh do our nails and stuff."

I make killer chicken soup. And I'll bring Ginger Ale and Jello. And those gummed paper strips so we can make paper chains, and finger paints, and my Suzy Play Pal. Ooops- you're too young to know Suzy and Patty, aren't you? Then I'll bring my Breyers Horses.

Uh... what street is it?

 

[Angeline]

awww Anna! Thanks, hon. I just wondered cuz it's had a zillion views and some really good votes, but no comments. I thought it was bad. I truly didn't come here for atta girls- I like the feedback I'm getting. I just didn't realize how deep the poem was for me til I tried to explain it. Maybe some things should just be left alone, huh?

I do have some others I'm curious about. Wondering if I should put them here...

(I'm also finding out I'm not as thick skinned as I thought!) But thats ok, too- I need to get that way if I'm gonna grow!

Ange!

"Can you come up here and make me chicken soup? And get me crayons and a coloring book--that's what my dad always did when I was sick.

Are you sick, too? Why don't you come up here anyway. We'll have a pajama party and uh do our nails and stuff."

I make killer chicken soup. And I'll bring Ginger Ale and Jello. And those gummed paper strips so we can make paper chains, and finger paints, and my Suzy Play Pal. Ooops- you're too young to know Suzy and Patty, aren't you? Then I'll bring my Breyers Horses.

Uh... what street is it?

Wasn't Patty PlayPal that big doll that walked?

Anyway I was never too into dolls. Got any Lincoln Logs?

 

[BooMerengue]

lol Patty and Suzy are the same size as 2 yr olds. I had plenty of hand me downs to dress her in, and my Mom would yell at her too when we were misbehavin!! (my poor sainted Mum!)

Lemme see... I have some Linclon Logs, but most washed away when I busted the damn my brothers made cuz they wouldn't let me float my boat. But I have an Erector set- it's REALLY cool, and I have Play Doh! Will that work?

 

[Honey123]

This thread went from poem criticing to sleep overs with..erm...erector sets..!!! My kinda thread!!

 

[champagne1982]

...for this poem. Well, maybe it's not a poem. I posted this in June of 2003 and tho the votes are good, there is only 1 comment.

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I'm going back thru all my 'work' and trying to find whats good and why. Don't be shy- just be honest. I'm tough.

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick, (perversion? or as you've mentioned, definite madness?)
And falling,
And when I reached for you
outside my own resistance
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I think it's difficult to avoid the sexual associations we're bound to make with an opening line like this. It's a power line, don't change a damned thing. Fuck 'em if they wanna think that's all it's about. Anyone who knows you will look for the deeper significance.

First read was pure sex...
Second was sex as compassion...
Third found sex as a tool used by a woman... to heal, to change.
Fourth (after reading your explanation) recognized the mourning enabler who'd realized that no matter how much she changed, she'd never change him.
I love your poetry. And yep, it's a Boo poem! You'd better trademark that.

 

[BooMerengue]

Thanks, Champ! I can see where the suggested changes would make it sound better, and I tried some, but I felt I lost the essence. A Boo poem, huh? I'm sitting here grinning like a cat! I'll have to look for some more- I have quite a few that I think are only just decent- who knows?

 

[Remec]

...for this poem. Well, maybe it's not a poem. I posted this in June of 2003 and tho the votes are good, there is only 1 comment.

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

I'm going back thru all my 'work' and trying to find whats good and why. Don't be shy- just be honest. I'm tough.

I'd say it was definitely a poem. I'm just unsure what exactly is happening...it's like the feeling of the world breaking was affirmed by the sickness and loss...I dunno if I'm making sense (I'm at the end of my workday right now), but it's like the pleasure of their mouth was an extreme sensation only matched by losing the chance to reciprocate (different sensation, though, but just as powerful and world-crushing)

As for reworking...I might restructure things somewhat...have a penchant for putting parenthetical phrases on lines of their own...but would have to think on how word choice my be altered....

 

[foehn]

oh, honey

When you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
But you were sick,
And falling,
And when I reached for you
I heard, in the distance,
A deep, slow cracking sound.

When I think of minimalist poems, I think of e.e. cummings' "loneliness" or Williams' "The Red Wheelbarrow" ... which poems are imagist, as well, I suppose.

Based on the comments you've made about your inner source for this (very good) poem, I think you can't adequately transmit all your experience to a reader with minimalism.

In a way, that's what minimalism is about. One writes minimally about an experience that was profound, and lets the reader be affected in whatever way she or he feels.

But minimalism doesn't care if one "gets" it, and I suspect that with this poem, you do care. More purely minimalist might be this:

honey

you lifted my hips to your mouth
I thought the world would break in half
you were sick
falling
when I reached for you
I heard in the distance,
deep, slow cracking.


If, as I suspect, you wanted to transmit more of the meaning, more of the complete experience for the reader, I would suggest that you do what I've done myself on numerous occasions. Let this poem be parent to the poem you meant to write. Keep some of the words, phrases, lines, ideas. But then write the complete poem: expand it mercilessly at first go. You can always pare it down again.

Put things in chronological order. Explain, in your beautiful way with words and with your superb poetic talent, *why* the world would break in half. Explain the sickness, the falling, the reaching in the same way. Explain the metaphor of cracking, or tie it back in to the world breaking in half.

As is, almost no reader is going to understand the sickness. (I refer you back to previous comments.) What sickness was it? How severe? What were the effects? Why was it fatal to the relationship?

Then, there is the falling. Falling off the couch? Falling into madness? Falling williingly, leaping, as it were? And what was the reaching? Throwing a rope, trying to hold on mentally to a relationship, embracing tightlly, trying to understand, trying to bear the unbearable?

The poem works fine, for me, a reader, as it is. But it doesn't punch me in the gut and make me feel strong feelings, and doesn't tickle my brain with questions. (There are questions, but not enough information for them to be "tickly.") Is that what you wanted to do? If so, I'd rewrite it, with great expansion. Seems to me, it could be a very long poem, and your talent could pull it off without being wordy, without wandering off into a swamp somewhere.

Hell, try an outline! (I want to convey to my readers: X)

A. I had a strong relationship, deeply felt
B. I gave evidence of how strong, how deeply I felt it
C. Somewhere in all that it got all screwed up
D. Everything went to shit and I was miserable

I may be on- or off-track with my comments, but maybe they'll help in some form or fashion.

It's always been a pleasure for me to read the offerings of yours I've seen.

=========
Some people will never get it, no matter what you do. Here's a comment I found about Williams' poem "The Red Wheelbarrow" in a forum this morning:

"Hi, my name is [xxxxx]. I read your review on that poem "The red Wheelbarrow." i thought i would ask you why you liked it. Personally, i didnt like it at all. I thought it was strangely...stupid. My six year old sister could write the same thing."
=========

Just smile and keep writing.