I hope you die!

[Flagg]

Do you think you'd be capable of wishing death on anybody? I mean really wishing death on somebody. Not just agreeing with the death penalty and being relieved that the most recent paedophile has been cooked but actually having the power to make someone dead yourself. Could you deal with the responsability and the implications of such an act?
I guess (in hindsight) that what I mean is - could you bring yourself to murder somebody?

I'd like to think I couldn't.

 

[Jeff726]

I have someone in mind, but she's not worth it.

 

[Cheyenne]

yes

If it were in self defense, yes, I could kill someone. Does that qualify as murder? Not in my book.

 

[Flagg]

Re: yes

If it were in self defense, yes, I could kill someone. Does that qualify as murder? Not in my book.

In that case, you are not actually answering the question

 

[Xander]

I beg the differ Flagg. Everybody will kill if the circumstances are to it. There's no doubt about that. What it is that will bring a person to kill another, I don't know. But stressed enough and put in the "right" situation, anybody will kill.

However, dealing with the guilt and responebility for it, is a whole other matter.
If I personally would be able to bear that particular cross, I don't know. I've never killed anybody so...who can really tell.

Random and cold blooded murder is only for really sick individuals. I'm talking about: Hey that guy/girl looks stupid, let's kill her/him. And then go through with it.

I won't say that nothing justifies killing another human being. Because I do not believe that. However it will take a hell of a lot to make me cry out. Kill the SOB, then grab a cold one in the fridge and enjoy the show. What exactly will make me do that, I don't know either. But I will certainly not rule out, it ever happening.

 

[Cheyenne]

I think I did answer. You asked if I could wish someone dead and go through with it, actually having the power to make someone dead. The answer is "yes". The difference is that I just don't call it "murder" if it is also self-defense.

I don't want to turn your thread into a debate on gun control, but let me explain how I know my answer. Once, many years ago when I was probably in my late teens, I was faced with what I thought at the time was someone breaking in my house late at night, trying to get in the back door. I knew exactly where all family members were at the time, and it wasn't on the other side of that door. I had my father's gun in my hand ready to shoot if someone actually got through the door. And I made a mental note at that point that I knew, without a doubt, I would have shot any stranger that had gotten in. No questions asked. I realized I could kill if the situation warranted. So yes, I would have wished him/her dead and I would have killed him/her.

It turned out to be a drunk or something, because the person moved on without getting in. Now, would it have been smarter to call "911" at the time instead of grab the gun? (Even though 911 didn't exist yet.) Yes, it would have been. But that wasn't your question. You asked could I kill someone, and the answer is "yes" I know I could, if it were self-defense. But I don't think I could kill anyone in any other situation.

 

[Flagg]

Interesting story Cheyenne. It makes me think little of this saga going on in the UK at the moment.

A farmer called Fred(?) Martin has been put in jail because he shot a burglar. The burglar, a 14 year old gypsy died from the wounds. He was shot in the back as he was runnning away.

Unbelievably, there was an uproar about this psycho farmer going to jail. The tabloids went crazy with headlines about how we no longer have the right to defend ourselves and how we must all campaign for the freedom of a man who was simply defending his family and his land.

Bollocks I say.

The man is a murderer and deserves to be in jail.

I brought you up on your answer cheyenne simply because you told me you would carry out an act that involoved killing someone, but then proceeded to say that in your book it wouldn't be murder. As the question was could you murder someone, I felt you hadn't answered.

 

[Cheyenne]

No offense taken.

I wouldn't have shot someone in the back, that isn't self defense. The person I was ready to shoot would have been shot in the chest, up front and personal. So, would I have been a murderer in your book, Flagg?

 

[Xander]

You mean up front and personal like this:

http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net4/headshot.gif

Instead of in the back like this:

http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net4/rail.gif

And you're not sure it could backfire like this:

http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net4/grenade.gif

Okay jokes over, No offence to any of you. I think I didn't answer the question as clearly as I should.
Could I kill someone?
8 years ago. Hell yes, I wouldn't even have thought twice about it.
Today I'm not so sure. I probaly could. But I don't think I would.

 

[Sammyjo]

Yesterday, I was so fucking pissed off, I could have...today, I could give a fuck

 

[CreamyLady]

No, I couldn't. I couldn't wish anyone dead; far removed, maybe; perhaps to Pluto; but not dead.

As for defending myself, I suppose in a crunch I could, but I wouldn't deal with it very well afterward. I would far rather not be in such a position.

 

[Deborah]

I refuse to answer this question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me (popping a shell in my Mossburg Maverick 12 gauge shotgun and hoping it's Flagg at the door).

Hey people, wake up! Don't you see Flagg's ulterior motive here? Exactly three minutes before he started this thread he plugged his story "Still Love" where he fucks the dead girl over on the "try it dry?" thread on the "How To ..." forum.

 

[Flagg]

Cheyenne - I think that if the man was unarmed and onviously wasn't expecting to bump in to the house owner then it would be murder.
Anything carried out in real self-defence however is not murder in my book.

Deb - You're too late. I came in through the back.

 

[Big Willie]

sorry flagg, but i majorlly disagree with you this farmer had every right to shoot at this guy.
1) he was robbing him, that includes the fact he trespassed on his land, broke into his house and stole things
2) he died form the wounds, which sounds suspiciously like he w\as not trying to kill him.
Personally i would have done the same thing, probably moreso. if i got burgled and i had a shotgun, fuck me he wouldn't stand a chance, but i'd make sure he saw my face before he died, up close and personal and all that. If its on my property i am leagally entitled to do what i like (as far as i'm concerned).
Ok you all probably think i'm a psycho now. i'm not really but thats how i feel about shit like that.
Cheers
Big Will

 

[Flagg]

1) he was robbing him, that includes the fact he trespassed on his land, broke into his house and stole things

And? Does that mean he deserved to die? People used to have their hands chopped off for stealing. A bit of a similar mentality I fear.

2) he died form the wounds, which sounds suspiciously like he w\as not trying to kill him.

So you shoot someone in the back with a shot gun and you're not trying to kill them?! What difference does it make whether the kid died straight away or an hour later anyway?

If its on my property i am leagally entitled to do what i like (as far as i'm concerned).

Fortunately you are not entitled to do that. Not in the UK anyway (thank god)

Ok you all probably think i'm a psycho now.

Yup

i'm not really but thats how i feel about shit like that.
Cheers

Fair enough. I respect the fact that you have the right to your own opinion. So I hope we won't fall out over this one!

 

[Fallen Angel]

If some sick screwed up person maliciously kills or badly hurts one of my girls or my wife I would most likely do a little more than just wish them dead. I would do what ever it took to see to it that they never got a chance to repeat what they had done. Sorry but sending them to jail for a couple of years isn't enough revenge for me. I know that there are faults to this logic ie; you kill my girl, I kill you, your brother kills me and so on. I can only hope that I am never forced to find out what I would really do if it happened.

This to me is one of those "cowboy up things" where even if it means going to jail myself for extracting justice it is worth it. There are times and places in most of our lives where we can not rely on others to see to it that the proper thing is done. Sometimes we have to have enough backbone to do the right thing ourselves. This might be joining the military to fight for what we believe is right, turning in the dealer down the street, or even stopping to help when someone is broke down on the road.

So I guess my answer to your question is Yes and with little remorse with the proper provocation.

 

[MADDOG]

Could I kill? It totally depends. I could kill to defend my life, or my family and friends lives. (Or anyones life). I could kill in revenge to the murder or rape or extreme physical hurt of someone I loved. I could not kill in cold blood. Not for any other reasons than those anyway.

All my life all I ever wanted to be was a pilot. That's it. There was never another option as far as I was concerned. I've seen Top Gun more times than I care to remember, and as a result, I always figured the Airforce was the way to go. Fast Jets, playing the hero.... How can you beat that? While I have no doubt that I would have been up to the job physically, when I sat down and thought about it, despite the perks, the day may come when I may be called upon to kill someone. I just don't think I could.

In war, the soldiers are pawns. Most Nazi soldiers in World War 2 weren't bad people. They were put in a horrible position by a select few madmen. I have no qualms about risking my life for my country. I just don't think I could kill for it.

For me, the thing that stops me killing is not the taking of that persons life, but the destruction of the lives of those they leave behind. That is the real tradgedy.

MADDOG

 

[Big Willie]

Firstly, thank you flagg for not falling out with me, i know i'm new and all so i'm trying to air my feelings quickly so i can join the group so to speak. Secondly, this is probably going to make all of you never speak to me again, but Fallenangel, i was only talking about robbery, if any of my family, friends or future wife(how many 18 yr olds can say that- am i stupid by the way - oooo i feel a new thread coming on!!) got hurt revenge would be no.1 on my list. if i caught the bastard, i'd kill him really slowly, and i mean REALLY slowly. probably using a knife and some salt.......you get the picture. I don't know about in the US but in Scotland, jail is a fucking holiday camp, no-one really takes it seriously any more, so ok you killed someone (say for arguments sake, a mother of two) have 25 years in Perth. pardon le French but, FUCK THAT. chances are he'll be out in 9 doing exactly the same thing again. If I don't kill him the government should excute him. you're lucky in the US, capital punishment is ok. The worst we brits can do is a life sentence. anyway thats enough raving and ranting. sorry bout the typos and swearing and stuff, this topic hits a nerve of mine(yeah not like its obvious or anything!!!!)


I AM SANE HONEST, anyway i have to be brutal, i'm joining the LAPD in two years 10 months!!
Cheers
BW

 

[Bushido71XS]

Been there, Done that

Having been on the sharp end, and felt the edge of it, I pary to go that I never have to go there again, The farmer Flagg mentioned, has got to live with the fact that he did something utterly unconscionable, both in society's eyes and in the eye's of those of us who call ourselves warrior's, soldier's or what have you.

Taking a human life in a combat situation or a heated moment of self-defense is totally different from, sitting down and coldy calculating the taking of someone's life.

In a combat situation, you're thinking about your friends and colleagues, buddies you've lived with, slept with, partied with, cried with, cared for their children, developed stronger bonds than you have even with your family.

A self-defense situation is a little bit different, you're surprised, sometimes pissed off, afraid, you're thougths are running a hundred miles an hour trying to get out of it, and the only way out you realize is to take another man's life.

These decisions are not to be taken lightly nor should the consequences of the actions be. People who now what happened objectively say, "It was the only thing you could do," or some other lame platitudes, very rarely do you have someone come up to you and say, " Are you alright?"

The Faces do stay with you, the nightmares never go away, you just get used to them, sometimes you drink, shut people out, become belligerent, and that's just from doing what you have to do in order to survive.

Planning another man's demise is in my eyes an utterly heinous and evil act. The person, or persons who do such a thing step outside of the moral and philosophical realm of the human race, they become little more than rabid creatures that should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[Expertise]

Thanks for saying, at least partially, what I wasn't comfortable saying Bushido.

I have been constantly drawn back to this thread even though there is a big part of me that wanted to stay away from it.

I have seen both sides. Self defence or the defence of comrades and friends as well as senseless slaughter, cold calculated murder in its most heinous form on two continents.

It is very easy for some of you to say I could take a life for whatever reason and maybe you could. It is also easy to say I would never do that, yet I have seen exactly what horrors people are capable of and there are very few who in the proper or unfortunate circumstances wouldn't.

It is the aftermath, in either case, that is the most difficult. When you are trying to save your own life or the lives others it is a reaction. I am sure that this is also the case in crimes of "passion" where hatred or revenge or anger overwhelms us. But after,when the adrenaline and fear or rage and hatred have subsided and you reflect on your actions it is incredibly difficult.

I assure you Flagg there are people in this world who can and do commit cold blooded murder in a manner so heinous and sickening and on a scale so vast that it is hard to imagine until you see it for yourself. I don't pretend to understand these creatures. However, if you had seen what I have seen in my brief life you would not hesitate to commit the act you feel so far above on one of them.

 

[Flagg]

Expertise - don't get me wrong, i don't feel above anything. In fact if you listen to Deb it is people from below that I prefer!

I did say that "I'd like to think that I couldn't"

I agree that no-one really knows until it the time comes.

Sounds like you and Bushido have seen some shitty things in your time. I must say I don't envy you.

 

[Patryn]

There's been 2 occasions in my life when I thought I could. The most recent would have been in self defense had the situation gotten any worse. I went out with a casual friend from work (male) and didn't know he'd been drinking all day. He refused to take "no" for an answer. A well directed knee saved me from having to do anything more severe.

The first time that I genuinely believe I could have killed would have been a crime of passion. I wanted to buy a jacket when I was about 14. I was $75 short, and asked my mom if I could take it out of my savings account, though it was supposed to be for college. She looked at me, started laughing, and said, "There's nothing left in there....I drank it" and commenced literall cracking up. Then continued with "See what you get when you trust someone else with your money?" She thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world. Why could I have killed her? She showed NO remorse....none. That's also when I realized she cared nothing about me. That does something to you...your own mother laughing because she fucked you over. So I firmly believe, at the time, that if I had had a weapon, I could have killed her. Now? She can fuck me...I don't care what happends to her.

[Edited by Patryn on 08-01-2000 at 10:12 AM]

 

[Bliss]

Flaggbert,

To answer your original question, I hope not! "If looks could kill" there certainly would be at least a few dead folks around the planet. According to all the posts flying around about you and your dead fuck (hehheh), you'd be in Flagg heaven though, Right?!

 

[Sammyjo]

Patryn...once again, I know how you feel. I went to the bank to put some money in my savings when I was 14, only to find that my account had been closed for nonsufficient funds. HUH??? I'd been putting all my babysitting money in there...apparently mommy and/or daddy were a little short on cash. I opened my own account straight away. I probably could have done it then, as well.

 

[Flagg]

Imagine a huge parenthesis

LOL! @ Payne

Much as I don't mind the jokes about necrophilia flying around (I even instigate them myself sometimes), I do want to make clear where this all comes from incase some of the newbies here take it too seriously (as they seem to do with everything).

I submitted a short story called Still Love that aims to analyse the emotion of grief. The idea is to somehow portray the sheer emptiness, helplessness and loneliness that accompanies the loss of a loved one. This is an erotic site and I decided to write it in an erotic context. Writing about sex isn't just a means of arousing people physically. It can also be used to arouse them mentally. This is what I was trying to do. It is in the eye of the reader as to whether I suceeded or not.

Just wanted to make that clear. Feel free to carry on throwing necrophilia gags at me. I can take it

Sorry Debs - was that another shameless plug?