I hate ultra-liberal Oak Park (here in Illinois)

[Frimost]

We have West Nile virus now... there have been like 7 to 9 confirmed cases in humans here in Illinois in the last 2 weeks or so...One of the cases was fatal and several others are in serious condition.

Out of 77 towns in the infected area all but one have not yet sprayed for mosquitoes, the only one that hasn't so far is...You guessed it, Oak park!

There have a local ordnance that no spraying of pesticides shall occur unless there is a health risk to the community posed by NOT spraying for mosquitoes. So now that several crows have turned up dead from West Nile Virus in Oak Park they are planning on spraying.

Suddenly the radical environmentalists are protesting the spraying of pesticides despite the threat of death from West Nile Virus in the village. They have obtained hundreds of signatures on petitions to try and stop the spaying and are angrily yelling at town officials threatening to sue them for having the nerve of trying to protect them by killing those useless disease-carrying mosquitoes!

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

They need to spray for environmentalists. It sounds like they have a nasty infestation.

 

[70/30]

Just thinning out the weak while creating a spike in the bug spray industry, reducing insurance costs and helping social security stay afloat.

 

[crysede]

The West Nile Virus scare is one of the silliest things the media has ever come up with! The flu is a MUCH more serious disease, with MUCH higher mortality rate. And yet the flu comes around every year without anyone having fits and insisting to spraying everyone with antiviral agents - hell, we actually have an effective vaccine, and most people don't even bother to get it!

More than 80% of people who get WNV never even realize they had it - they have no symptoms at all - and of the remaining 20% the vast majority get symptoms of a very, very mild cold or flu that lasts for a day or two. Only those who are severely immunocompromised are at any risk from WNV - and they still face far greater risk from the flu.

One doesn't even have to mention the environmental mess, or potential risks to human health, caused by these spraying programs: the amount of money wasted alone makes them worthy of opposing!

And local governments know perfectly well that WNV is not a serious illness - there are no voices of descent among the scientists who've studied the disease - so the spraying campaigns amount to throwing money (and toxins) around gratuitously to curry favour with the voters, all because the media - showing it's usual lack of responsibility - decided that WNV made a bloody great story to boost those summer ratings.

Contrary to the media's 'Outbreak' mentality - just because it's foreign and spread by animals, does not mean it's the next great plague.

 

[Frimost]

Bullshit

We are talking about human’s lives, even if it is just a few. If anything the threat seems to be understated here to avoid causing panic. The first person to get it was a 22-year old female student temporarily working here. While she didn't get it all that severely three other women in their 40s required hospitalization for over a week. Many of the men that were put in serious condition were in their early 50's, that is hardly "elderly" as the media proclaims the West Nile Virus to be only dangerous towards.

Complete and utter bullshot, anyone who puts a few dollars or the lives of a worthless parasitic insect over that of fellow human beings should be permanently exiled from their community never to return!

The fact is the Midwest is in the Greatest drought it been in a LONG, long, long time. Drought means no water for mosquitoes to breed, if they are causing this much damage now imagine what WNV is capable of in a year with normal rainfall, or even god forbid a flood year like 1993?!

Besides the mosquitoes themselves the real pests in this instance are the environmentalists themselves. Try telling the family of one of the victims that it doesn’t matter if they spray or not because the death toll is small and inconsequential to you.


I would like to see if you would be singing the same tune if you got it in a community that didn't care enough about it's own tax-payers to spray for some worthless bugs!

 

[Marxist]

Frimost, the only answer is for you to shoot the man that sold you the black overcoat. Don't listen to the critics, it's a solution.

 

[crysede]

Re: Bullshit

So I take then that you are out there with all guns blazing to get flu shots made mandatory to prevent the spread of that far more dangerous disease (that kills thousands and hospitalizes hundreds of thousands yearly)? And it goes without saying that you feel that those willing to risk their own health, and that of others, by not getting vaccinated should be permanently exiled? (You get your vaccination every year, right?)

And btw, how exactly did you work out the worth of mosquitoes? That must have been quite the interesting cost-benefit analysis given the complexity of the food chains involved - or do you feel that all non-human things are worthless?

 

[Spinaroonie]

Jesus Christ.

The WNV is incredibly overhyped.

If you have a heavy WNV infected mosquito population, if a mosquito bites you, you have about a .0004% chance of getting it.

If you are a normal human being and you get it, you won't even notice it, as it is less strenuous than the flu.

if your immune system is fucked up, then it can translate to something else, but only then.

You don't need to waste your tax money on sprays, if you're a healthy human being you should live your life. If you're sickly, you should stay indoors.

 

[Frimost]

Don't listen to the critics, it's a solution.

Maybe you are right Marxist, perhaps in order to settle down more I should strive in the future to tune-out people I consider totally irrational and completely irresponsible. In this case that would be crysede.

Jesus Christ.

The WNV is incredibly overhyped.

If you have a heavy WNV infected mosquito population, if a mosquito bites you, you have about a .0004% chance of getting it.

If you are a normal human being and you get it, you won't even notice it, as it is less strenuous than the flu.

if your immune system is fucked up, then it can translate to something else, but only then.

You don't need to waste your tax money on sprays, if you're a healthy human being you should live your life. If you're sickly, you should stay indoors.

Again people, it’s not about me! I am not scared that I will get it, mosquitoes hardly ever bite me at all in the first place. I know what it’s like to have bad luck, I feel for the poor bastards in the .0004 percentile or whatever the ratio is. I am worried for my fellow citizens and mankind in general, not myself. The strong should protect the weak, just because it would take an entire squadron of WNB-bearing mosquitoes to get me sick dose not mean I should say "fuck it, fuck them" to the poor, sick, old, or just plain unlucky individuals who this will effect and will kill. So hell yeah I'm going to complain about this, for them, not myself!

 

[70/30]

My stand is consistent with the developed world's opinion of problems in Africa, Frimost you are just in looneyland.

 

[sigh]

1) Has anyone shown that spraying for mosquitoes actually reduces the incidence of this disease? (This isn't rhetorical. Has anyone seen studies?)

2) As we've never managed to eradicate an insect species we've considered a pest, isn't it likely that spraying for mosquitoes will only strengthen the species as a whole? The surviving bugs will produce offspring also resistant to bug sprays which could leave a much more difficult population to control when and if a more serious mosquito borne illness arises. This certainly is the case with the overuse of antibiotics in the treatment of bacterial infections. It seems reasonable to extrapolate this to mosquitoes as well.

3) Drought years might actually be good for mosquitoes. They require stagnant water to reproduce. I'm no expert on mosquitoes but it would seem that fast moving waters during a flood year would be more detrimental to the species. (Anyone with expertise, please chime in here.)

4) Despite the press reports, the disease as a whole, compared to a whole variety of other communicable illnesses, is rather mild. Certainly it's terribly unfortunate that people have died, but why are you chosing this particular disease to champion? Or does it simply allow you a forum to bash " radical environmentalists" who are asking serious questions about the risk/benefit ratio to their families from being exposed to spraying programs?

5) Sprayed insecticides aren't without risks of their own to humans, and yes, people have died from exposure to them. I'm from Illinois too and have also lived in Iowa and my professional field includes extensive studies of toxins. I've read case studies of farm children dying from insecticide exposure (and not gross overexposure either), and the same groups most at risk from this exposure are those most at risk from the virus. Aren't we just replacing one remote danger with another? Remember, pesticides are designed to kill animal cells and we just happen to be made up of those.

6) Oak Park is liberal? Things sure have changed since my great aunt and uncle used to live there. But that was a while ago I guess.

Honestly Frimost, if I thought spraying would save lives without posing a danger in itself, I'd be all for it. Saying that I (or anyone else here) would sacrifice a human for the sake of a mosquito is insulting. It's just that I'm not convinced that the spread of this virus warrants the reaction we've been seeing in the press or by our elected officials.

 

[Lasz]

Well if you dont like ultra liberal oak park, then move to ultra conservative Wheaton!

That town was dry until the late 80's!

 

[70/30]

3) Drought years might actually be good for mosquitoes. They require stagnant water to reproduce. I'm no expert on mosquitoes but it would seem that fast moving waters during a flood year would be more detrimental to the species. (Anyone with expertise, please chime in here.)


I'm not expert, though I don't need to be to disagree with the idiocy of this part of your post. The town I live in had a 100year flood 6weeks ago and the mosquitos are fucking in the hordes when compared to anytime I can recall. I am 100% healthy but I find myself staying indoors more than usual, this can be proved by the amount of time I've spent on this forum since that particular flood. Personally, I would like more spraying to be done in my neighbourhood but like I said I'm healthy and the spray wouldn't affect me. However those monster mosquito welts do affect me. Maybe I could buy some OFF! but that's too reasonable of a solution.

 

[Frimost]

Even though I started this thread I don't feel like getting too pissed off so I wil answer only one or two dumb questions or comments at a time.

1) Has anyone shown that spraying for mosquitoes actually reduces the incidence of this disease? (This isn't rhetorical. Has anyone seen studies?)

Yes, for god sakes-that is just plain common sense. Spraying kills mosquitoes, a portion of those killed mosquitoes had WNV. Since they are dead they cannot bite anyone and thus infect them. Hence spraying reduces the chances of infection by reducing the overall mosquito population, which in turn reduces the infection of the disease to the community at large. In spraying you are proactively reducing illnesses and death.

I can't believe someone would even ask that, they say there are no stupid questions...but I don't know sometimes. lol

I made the thread because I was sitting next to the TV on the computer with the news on when the story about Oak Park came on and it made me think "WTF is wrong with those morons"?

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that living organisms to not become resistant to chemical sprays like we do to natural thinks like bacteria.

Pesticides are designed to kill insect, not humans, big difference.
Besides, this is not DDT we are talking about here, I have been outside when chemical trucks passed by and the stuff they use now days is harmless. These people complaining are the same types of JACKASSES that made-up illness they claim to get from perfumes and colognes and petition schools and businesses to outlaw all deodorants and anti-perspirants because they say it gives them "toxic shock" to smell it. They are like the extreme right-wingers with the black-helicopters conspiracy theories only there shtick is that chemicals and perfumes are the root of all evil and are killing us all right now as we speak.

Why don’t you democrats reign in the morons on the fringes of your party, at least we Republicans know whose full of shit and will call them on it in our party (in my experiences).

 

[Frimost]

Maybe I should just take the stance of let the idiots kill themselves, serves them right. I suppose there is no use helping those who don't want to be helped. I had just better not hear "we had no idea this would happen" if they do manage to prevent spraying and have a huge (and costly to the taxpayers) outbreak. You reap what you sow, and they are trying to sow their lawns and gardens with lots and lots of ‘squiters apparently.

 

[Pyper]

Who's the moron?

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that living organisms to not become resistant to chemical sprays like we do to natural thinks like bacteria.

Bacteria ARE living organisms. *clenches teeth to prevent herself from tacking on an insult*

Mosquitos can become resistant to pesticides the same way bacteria become resistant to anti-bacterial products: natural selection. The ones (and there are always some) who are naturally resistant live on to have lots of resistant offspring...who now carry WNV but are immune to pesticides.

 

[Frimost]

fucking flying needles they are

I agree 70/30, that's like asking for a study to prove that fire burns things. lol

 

[lavender]

 

[Frimost]

Maybe you should listen instead of doing whatever the hell it is you are doing, itching to get your say in I suppose (without actually reading what is said).

like we do to natural thinks like bacteria.

Read that again, what the hell did I just say there?

 

[Pyper]

"Natural thinks"? "...to not become resistant"?

WHO THE HELL KNOWS?!

 

[lavender]

 

[pipercatt]

Well if you dont like ultra liberal oak park, then move to ultra conservative Wheaton!

That town was dry until the late 80's!

Parts of it are still dry, or at least only slightly damp.

 

[Frimost]

I don't think any bugs ever got used to DDT, it was incredibly effective from start to finish and we used that shit forever. We only pulled that stuff from production and stopped using it because proper studies had not been done to gauge its effects on the environment and it was causing a substantial amount of damage to the ecosystem. A couple of decades later and several multi-million dollar lawsuits later (hitting them were it hurt, in the pocket book) and they have become awfully careful about testing pesticides before using them like that again.

Besides, bug-killer is not like the complicated, and costly anti0viral drugs we use for treating infections, there are loads of different types of chemicals out there to use that are cheap and effective. If they do get used to one, we have plenty more bug-cocktails out there for them to sample.

 

[Frimost]

Okay typo, should be natural things.

I'll wager a bet you take a thousand strong young men and spray them with tabun and not one of them is gonna survive to suddenly, miraculously develop some kind of magical immunity to it.

That's what bug killer is to them, sarin for insects...

That's why the rules are different from chemicals to diseases as well, chemicals kill the host to quickly for the body to adjust and mount an effective counter-attack. The rules are different for chemical warfare than they are for biological warfare.

 

[Laurel]

Mommy Laurel: Pyper has a potty mouth.

I know. Isn't she great?