I hate men! -rant

[Le Jacquelope]

Another inspirational quote from an early (19th century) feminist: "We do not fight with man himself, but only with bad principles." - Ernestine Rose

 

[sweetnpetite]

Originally posted by LovingTongue
She also said:

She seems to contradict herself in this and many other areas.
Men would be especially wise to listen to your first quote of her, and remember not to think with their dicks. I think Camille would agree with me.

And yes before you say it I know about her saying all consentual sex (probably including underaged stuff) should be legal. There's no danger of her going very far with that kind of talk.


You won't make a difference when you alienate men by saying you hate them.


//See this is the kind of thing I mean. If I allienate *men* I won't make a difference? You are saying that in order to make a difference, I need to have men on my side. I don't agree. Would you say that a man couldn't make a difference in the world if he ailienated women. Because obvioulsy some very influential men have alienated women. Are you saying that I should soften what I feel and believe in order to pander to men because I can't make a difference without their support? Cause that's what it sounds like. Malcome X ailientated a lot of people- most whites and plenty of blacks, but he still made a difference.//


Yeah it's strange that despite the quotes you've shown in a rather good attempt to show she's a man-hater, she's hated by mainstream feminists.

//I wasn't trying to show she was a man-hater. Those where a couple of the quotes I most agrees with.//

How about "I hate bigots"? Admitting you hate men is like Rush Limbaugh admitting he's addicted to painkillers - it's a condition you need to realize you need to get rid of.
If you had said you hate bigots and raised hell about misogynists, I'd be behind you 100%.

//Point taken, but if men is really what I hate, then what? I should still couch it in terms that don't ailienate men? [and it should probably be noted that there have even been men on this thread who have stood up for me, and perhaps even more than the women]

And also, its not only obvioulsy mysogynistic and biggeted men that I hate. I think that there are subtle and not so subtle threads of mysogony and assumptions of superiority and other forms of chauvanism throughout what could be called, "male culture." And yes, I thinkt that there is a male and female culture that are seperate in ways yet co-exist. Maybe I should have said, "I hate male culture." That would have been more accurate.

I am not trying to be disrespectful of you, I really do enjoy hearing your point of view. I don' t even think that your pov is wrong, it is just different from mine. Your replys are thoughtful and not abusive. I hope I have returned the same.

 

[sweetnpetite]

OK, you know what? I really like that. You may have won this argument. I really really like that quote. Where can I find out more about her?

Another inspirational quote from an early (19th century) feminist: "We do not fight with man himself, but only with bad principles." - Ernestine Rose

 

[Le Jacquelope]

OK, you know what? I really like that. You may have won this argument. I really really like that quote. Where can I find out more about her?

I'll look her up .. she is actually better known as a prominent atheist. She married a Christian guy who was younger than her. Freethought activist Samuel Putnam said of her, "no orthodox man could meet her in debate." Yowza. She was an abolitionist and also got involved in some effort to gain women personal property rights.

That's all I know of her.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

//See this is the kind of thing I mean. If I allienate *men* I won't make a difference? You are saying that in order to make a difference, I need to have men on my side. I don't agree. Would you say that a man couldn't make a difference in the world if he ailienated women. Because obvioulsy some very influential men have alienated women. Are you saying that I should soften what I feel and believe in order to pander to men because I can't make a difference without their support? Cause that's what it sounds like. Malcome X ailientated a lot of people- most whites and plenty of blacks, but he still made a difference.//

I would very much say that a man can't make much difference in the world if he alienated a hell of a lot of women. Malcolm X's legacy is dubious at best. And he made nowhere near as much of a difference as Martin Luther King, Jr. and most 19th century suffragists and abolitionists. All of them made deep inroads among whites and men. Susan B Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Ernestine Rose all achieved great things and gained many supporters among men as well as women.

Egalitarianism is inherently about bringing people together. When that is your central theme, you minimalize your alienation factor, even though you make some very strident enemies in the process. Those strident enemies, throughout history, have become the screaming minority (see: the KKK). When you preach hate, an example being the "it's all of us vs all of them" attitude, you make very strident allies, but they become the lunatic fringe.

//I wasn't trying to show she was a man-hater. Those where a couple of the quotes I most agrees with.//

I take her quotes as warnings with one big constant message: "men, don't think with your dicks." Paglia was exactly the woman whose writings inspired me to see that.

//Point taken, but if men is really what I hate, then what? I should still couch it in terms that don't ailienate men?

Then you are likely to wind up on the lunatic fringe. I don't think you want that.

and it should probably be noted that there have even been men on this thread who have stood up for me, and perhaps even more than the women

I don't see that in re-reading this thread...

And also, its not only obvioulsy mysogynistic and biggeted men that I hate. I think that there are subtle and not so subtle threads of mysogony and assumptions of superiority and other forms of chauvanism throughout what could be called, "male culture." And yes, I thinkt that there is a male and female culture that are seperate in ways yet co-exist. Maybe I should have said, "I hate male culture." That would have been more accurate.

Please define "male culture" for me?

I used to make fun of Al Sharpton and his mindless followers by peeking around corners while walking with my black friends. I'd back up and say "hey, look out, there's a Jew/white dude around the corner." Beware of paranoia.

I am not trying to be disrespectful of you, I really do enjoy hearing your point of view. I don' t even think that your pov is wrong, it is just different from mine. Your replys are thoughtful and not abusive. I hope I have returned the same.

Absolutely. It's nice to be able to discuss this without suicide-bombing trolls interfering.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I foolishly started three posts on the same topic, so it may have been on a diferent one that I got male support.

what is male culture?

Male culture is the way that men are socialized which is different from the way women are socialized. Not to go into the particulars at this god-forsaken hour, but here's a snipett (regarding white male culture):

In the September edition of HRMagazine, Michael Welp, a principal at EqualVoice is quoted as saying that white men need to view themselves as part of a culture and a group. He says that: "Many organizations define diversity as simply respecting everyone's different culture. This attitude ignores the fact that there are systemic advantages for the white male culture. For one thing, we never have to leave our own culture and enter someone else's. This allows us to continue to think of ourselves as individuals, not as part of a white male culture. Everyone else, however, must become bi-cultural in order to fit into our culture."

I agree with this from the gender perspective as well as from the racial perspective.

........falling asleep now........

 

[sweetnpetite]

change of Perspective

I've had a lightbulb moment.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200623&pagenumber=4

(my most recent post.)