I am an Afganistian, wanna buy my son?
- Thread starter Siren
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p_p_man
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Siren said:
Yeah it's a pity the US didn't bomb the whole fucking lot of them out of existence, then she could have turned the country into an American mirror image...
Wouldn't have had this sort of nonsence happening then.
Damn stupid foreigners...
ppman
Mensa
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Different strokes, different folks
Try not to be too harsh, Siren, these people have nothing after endless years of war and deprivation. Their only hope for security in old age is their children. The more children you have, the better your chance of being looked after when you are no longer capable of doing it yourself.
It may seem irresponsible to us with our State-run Social Security schemes and private pension plans but other places must make their own arrangements for their final years. It works for them and they're satisfied.
Try not to be too harsh, Siren, these people have nothing after endless years of war and deprivation. Their only hope for security in old age is their children. The more children you have, the better your chance of being looked after when you are no longer capable of doing it yourself.
It may seem irresponsible to us with our State-run Social Security schemes and private pension plans but other places must make their own arrangements for their final years. It works for them and they're satisfied.
cymbidia
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Siren you know the answer.
Fundamentalist religions throughout the world, throughout time, have taken away a woman's decisio-making regarding family size. Big families were/are encouraged through social conditioning and lack of education of alternatives.
The Afghani people have been a civilized people for most of the time humans have been civilized. Unfortunately, they're located geographically at the very nexus of human civilization, too, and have been uprooted, overtaken, mismanaged, hurt, downtrodden, etc by whomever could run them for all of that time too.
Years ago, Afghani women were educated and knowledgeable. There were Afghani women poets and authors, mathematicians and lawyers, teachers and doctors. Then the fundamentalists came in and out went those advances.
Today they are a pitiful lot, those once-proud Afghani women. They have no access to what we would consider even basic health care. They live short brutish lives bearing child after child after child, and seeing many of them die in infancy and childhood of pitifully easy to treat diseases.
Those women don't want to sell their children.
They want their children to live.
All of them: the ones that are sold may, somehow, escape the grinding oppression and the ones that remain may live for the food they eat with the money their mothers get.
They have so few choices, these poor women.
Don't degrade them, please, for taking the choice of LIFE over certain death.
Fundamentalist religions throughout the world, throughout time, have taken away a woman's decisio-making regarding family size. Big families were/are encouraged through social conditioning and lack of education of alternatives.
The Afghani people have been a civilized people for most of the time humans have been civilized. Unfortunately, they're located geographically at the very nexus of human civilization, too, and have been uprooted, overtaken, mismanaged, hurt, downtrodden, etc by whomever could run them for all of that time too.
Years ago, Afghani women were educated and knowledgeable. There were Afghani women poets and authors, mathematicians and lawyers, teachers and doctors. Then the fundamentalists came in and out went those advances.
Today they are a pitiful lot, those once-proud Afghani women. They have no access to what we would consider even basic health care. They live short brutish lives bearing child after child after child, and seeing many of them die in infancy and childhood of pitifully easy to treat diseases.
Those women don't want to sell their children.
They want their children to live.
All of them: the ones that are sold may, somehow, escape the grinding oppression and the ones that remain may live for the food they eat with the money their mothers get.
They have so few choices, these poor women.
Don't degrade them, please, for taking the choice of LIFE over certain death.
Problem Child
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When people live under a system that puts the teachings of God over the rights of man they doom themselves to everlasting tribal warfare. The lack of any kind of a coherent government in a modern world means that no economy can survive, and constant warfare means that agriculture is impossible.
When agriculture is impossible and there is no economy to produce wealth so food can be bought from outside sources, people starve.
Strict adherence to religion, coupled with a lack of any kind of education means people live in ignorance, and thus have no knowledge of birth contol. They have big families.
When seven children are starving, selling one to feed the rest probably seems like a small price to pay.
When agriculture is impossible and there is no economy to produce wealth so food can be bought from outside sources, people starve.
Strict adherence to religion, coupled with a lack of any kind of education means people live in ignorance, and thus have no knowledge of birth contol. They have big families.
When seven children are starving, selling one to feed the rest probably seems like a small price to pay.
Problem Child
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Re: Re: I am an Afganistian, wanna buy my son?
Still a complete moron, I see.
p_p_man said:
Still a complete moron, I see.
Problem Child
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Wow Cym, you said sort of what I did, only a lot better.
Problem Child
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Re: Cym, I am not degrading women, they dont have any say in the matter
Whoa.
Siren said:
Whoa.
p_p_man
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Re: Cym, I am not degrading women, they dont have any say in the matter
Everyone debates in their own way and according to their mood or how strongly they want to make a point.
Mensa, cymbidia and (although it hurts me to say this) Problem Child debated in an even mannered way.
What's the problem?
ppman
Siren said:
Everyone debates in their own way and according to their mood or how strongly they want to make a point.
Mensa, cymbidia and (although it hurts me to say this) Problem Child debated in an even mannered way.
What's the problem?
ppman
cymbidia
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Siren, i apologize if you felt i was attacking *you*. I would not, unless, of course, i had to because you made me.
In any case, this particular subject is one about which i feel a special horror. Lack of access to anything approximating an even basic education -based solely on one's gender- is bad enough but that coupled with the banning of any basic health care, the acceptance of casually inhumane ways of treating women (stoning for the showing of even a wrist in public, for instance), and the status of women as brood mares and baby factories, easy to cast off when worn out and replace with another, is beyond... horrifying.
Your post hit home. Hence my firey reply.
I don't now, nor would i ever think *you* would stone a woman for trying to provide for her family from within the destitute and restrictive society that Afghanistan has so sadly become.
I know your tender heart better than that.
In any case, this particular subject is one about which i feel a special horror. Lack of access to anything approximating an even basic education -based solely on one's gender- is bad enough but that coupled with the banning of any basic health care, the acceptance of casually inhumane ways of treating women (stoning for the showing of even a wrist in public, for instance), and the status of women as brood mares and baby factories, easy to cast off when worn out and replace with another, is beyond... horrifying.
Your post hit home. Hence my firey reply.
I don't now, nor would i ever think *you* would stone a woman for trying to provide for her family from within the destitute and restrictive society that Afghanistan has so sadly become.
I know your tender heart better than that.
cymbidia
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Re: PC thanks a million for your post
However...
I believe to my core that every one of us wants about the same things in life, no matter what color we are or where we live or to what god we pray.
We all want to love and be loved, freely, without restrictions on who our partner can be.
We all want enough stuff with which to care for ourselves and our familes, stuff being clean water, food, clothing, housing, medical access, etc.
We want the chance for life to be better for our children than it is for us.
We want to know about the world, to have access to places to learn new things, new techniques.
We want the freedom to travel to new places if we wish.
We want to worship to our own gods, within inhibition and prohibition.
That's all you and i want, really. When it'a all boiled down to basics, that's all any of us wants. That's all the Afghani's want, too.
They want their own country back, free and clear, without foriegners, so they can rebuild. They want peace and security for themselves and their children. They want access to clean water and food and schools and medical facilities.
Just like us.
There's no great gulf between us beyond that which they must travel as they struggle back from being a thoroughly oppressed people for so very long.
IMHO.
But you worked in the agriulture-economy angle that i totally forgot. Genius!Problem Child said:
They aren't so different from us, Siren. In fact, i think they're probably far more like us than unlike us, really. They've beena subjugated people for a very long time, that is true, and like all such people, will need some time to repair and renew the infrastructure of their society and thier emotional/psychological center as a people of value and worth.Siren said:
However...
I believe to my core that every one of us wants about the same things in life, no matter what color we are or where we live or to what god we pray.
We all want to love and be loved, freely, without restrictions on who our partner can be.
We all want enough stuff with which to care for ourselves and our familes, stuff being clean water, food, clothing, housing, medical access, etc.
We want the chance for life to be better for our children than it is for us.
We want to know about the world, to have access to places to learn new things, new techniques.
We want the freedom to travel to new places if we wish.
We want to worship to our own gods, within inhibition and prohibition.
That's all you and i want, really. When it'a all boiled down to basics, that's all any of us wants. That's all the Afghani's want, too.
They want their own country back, free and clear, without foriegners, so they can rebuild. They want peace and security for themselves and their children. They want access to clean water and food and schools and medical facilities.
Just like us.
There's no great gulf between us beyond that which they must travel as they struggle back from being a thoroughly oppressed people for so very long.
IMHO.
RhumbRunner13
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The cost of Life!
One of my first memories of Viet Nam was getting to Dong Tam, a large base camp in the Delta, where one day I was "detailed" to help get the garbage to the dump.
I was more than surprised to see old (45 - 60) women hawking 11 to 13 year old girls for sexual favors. I've never been adverse to prostitution, but hearing an old woman say, "You want my gran dotter, she reel gud, fuky suky reel gud, yu like GI!!" was not a turn on!!!
Bless where you live, the fortune of where your spirit was born, and understand that the difference between our lives and a "third world" country is not a chasm, it is a universe!
RhumbRunner
One of my first memories of Viet Nam was getting to Dong Tam, a large base camp in the Delta, where one day I was "detailed" to help get the garbage to the dump.
I was more than surprised to see old (45 - 60) women hawking 11 to 13 year old girls for sexual favors. I've never been adverse to prostitution, but hearing an old woman say, "You want my gran dotter, she reel gud, fuky suky reel gud, yu like GI!!" was not a turn on!!!
Bless where you live, the fortune of where your spirit was born, and understand that the difference between our lives and a "third world" country is not a chasm, it is a universe!
RhumbRunner
M
miles
Guest
PC
He's not a moron anymore.
He's now moved up to being a moron's moron.
He's not a moron anymore.
He's now moved up to being a moron's moron.
Problem Child
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Re: PC
Damn, Miles. Is that good or bad?
miles said:
Damn, Miles. Is that good or bad?
M
miles
Guest
That means even a moron would think he's a fucking moron.
Rock bottom. Lower than whale shit. Off the scale.
Here he comes...I'll bet he calls us something clever like "Problem Miles" again.
Rock bottom. Lower than whale shit. Off the scale.
Here he comes...I'll bet he calls us something clever like "Problem Miles" again.
Weird Harold
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Problem Child said:
Siren,
I think PC has hit the essential point here. The lack of education applies almost as much to the men of Afghanistan as it does to the women. It almost certainly applies to the peasantry that you're complaining about.
p_p_man
The 'Euro' European
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This problem doesn't just exist in Afghanistan...
it's global.
Although the source countries and the routes change with changing circumstances there are well know ones running from:
Latin America to North America.
Europe and the Middle East.
The countries of the former Soviet Union to the Baltic States and Western Europe.
Romania to Italy and through Turkey and Cyprus to Israel and the Middle East.
West Africa to the Middle East and Europe.
Thailand and the Philippines to Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan.
Cambodia, Burma, and Vietnam to Thailand.
Nepal and Bangladesh to India.
India and Pakistan to the Middle East.
Togo, Mali, Burkina Faso and Ghana to Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Cameroon and Gabon.
Moved both in and out of Benin and Nigeria.
Not all child trafficking is caused by extreme poverty of course. Much of it is organised crime using the system.
There's plenty about it on search engines but the above information can be found in more detail on:
http://www.globalmarch.org/child-trafficking/routes.html
To single out Afghanistan from one report doesn't even touch the problem...
it's global.
Although the source countries and the routes change with changing circumstances there are well know ones running from:
Latin America to North America.
Europe and the Middle East.
The countries of the former Soviet Union to the Baltic States and Western Europe.
Romania to Italy and through Turkey and Cyprus to Israel and the Middle East.
West Africa to the Middle East and Europe.
Thailand and the Philippines to Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan.
Cambodia, Burma, and Vietnam to Thailand.
Nepal and Bangladesh to India.
India and Pakistan to the Middle East.
Togo, Mali, Burkina Faso and Ghana to Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Cameroon and Gabon.
Moved both in and out of Benin and Nigeria.
Not all child trafficking is caused by extreme poverty of course. Much of it is organised crime using the system.
There's plenty about it on search engines but the above information can be found in more detail on:
http://www.globalmarch.org/child-trafficking/routes.html
To single out Afghanistan from one report doesn't even touch the problem...
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