Hunting

[Fata Morgana]

I don't doubt for a minute that the deer know that man is a predator... There isn't an organism on this planet that hasn't been touched in a negative way by the strong arm of humankind...

The difference though between humans and other predators is that man doesn't necessarily have to take that role for survival any longer...

I'd rather play chess

 

[The Heretic]

in reality... hunters exagerate their stories... hunters bait to some extent.. and whether they admit it or not they do KNOW people who have a little to drink or a lot to drink while hunting... I can't fathom someone who's an adept hunter not knowing a single person in their lives who didn't have some sort of drink before or while hunting...

I didn't say it isn't possible, or that there aren't slob hunters, but I for one wouldn't stick around someone very long who drank and hunted, or drank and shot firearms.

As I said, maybe it is the people we hang with. I don't tend to hang with people who would drink and hunt, or drink and shoot for that matter. In fact, I was raised in a fairly strict non-drinking family and it was rare that as kids we associated with anyone who drank or even smoked. When I was a kid it was even questionable whether going to see a movie was allowable or not (I remember my parents discussing when I was about 8 years old and as invited to see "The Sword and the Stone" as part of a birthday party).

Also, hunting and shooting seem to be much less of a pastime than when I was younger.

Things have changed over the years, I don't hunt anymore (last time was about 5 years ago) and because I can't walk long distances now I probably never will again.

I still go shooting once in a while. Last shoot I was at was fairly interesting (included cannon, mortars and other exotics), but the rule was that once the beer came out there was no more shooting that day.

No. Drinking while/before hunting or shooting is verboten in my crowd. I know people who drink and drive, but drink and shoot - no - and I consider the former to actually be more dangerous; I know people killed or maimed by drunk drivers, I don't know anybody killed or shot by a drunk hunter.

 

[mansome]

I didn't say it isn't possible, or that there aren't slob hunters, but I for one wouldn't stick around someone very long who drank and hunted, or drank and shot firearms.

As I said, maybe it is the people we hang with. I don't tend to hang with people who would drink and hunt, or drink and shoot for that matter. In fact, I was raised in a fairly strict non-drinking family and it was rare that as kids we associated with anyone who drank or even smoked. When I was a kid it was even questionable whether going to see a movie was allowable or not (I remember my parents discussing when I was about 8 years old and as invited to see "The Sword and the Stone" as part of a birthday party).

Also, hunting and shooting seem to be much less of a pastime than when I was younger.

Things have changed over the years, I don't hunt anymore (last time was about 5 years ago) and because I can't walk long distances now I probably never will again.

I still go shooting once in a while. Last shoot I was at was fairly interesting (included cannon, mortars and other exotics), but the rule was that once the beer came out there was no more shooting that day.

No. Drinking while/before hunting or shooting is verboten in my crowd. I know people who drink and drive, but drink and shoot - no - and I consider the former to actually be more dangerous; I know people killed or maimed by drunk drivers, I don't know anybody killed or shot by a drunk hunter.

are you for real?

Yikes!

 

[The Heretic]

The difference though between humans and other predators is that man doesn't necessarily have to take that role for survival any longer...

I'd rather play chess

There is nothing humans do that doesn't have an impact on wildlife. More wildlife dies due to loss of habitat than hunting. That habitat is lost to freeways, houses, businesses (including the company that made your chessboard and chess pieces), farms and so on. Even vegetarians have to contend with those facts. Simply having pet cats has a huge impact on wildlife - millions of birds and squirrels and other rodents are killed by pet cats allowed to roam free.

Of course, hunters, being in the minority and very visible, are much easier to point the finger at. But that is how life works - rather than looking in the mirror, everyone has to blame someone else, and it is usually the minority that gets the dirty end of the stick.

 

[The Heretic]

are you for real?

Yikes!

are you?

 

[mansome]

are you?

I think you sit at home way too much and haven't tasted reality...

 

[JinXed]

People consume alcohol. Would you say that everyone that does, then drives? Would you say that's the norm?

Same can be said for hunting. They may drink, but most aren't stupid enough to pick up a gun while intoxicated.

In both instances there are morons who wouldn't hesitate to do either of the options. I think it's ridiculous to assume that either instance is the norm.

 

[The Heretic]

I think you sit at home way too much and haven't tasted reality...

I tasted the reality of life while you were still in diapers and you have no idea what I have seen in my life, where I have been, or what I have done.

But you just go right ahead and stick to your preconcieved notions of how the world works - whatever works for you.

 

[Image]

There is nothing humans do that doesn't have an impact on wildlife. More wildlife dies due to loss of habitat than hunting. That habitat is lost to freeways, houses, businesses (including the company that made your chessboard and chess pieces), farms and so on. Even vegetarians have to contend with those facts. Simply having pet cats has a huge impact on wildlife - millions of birds and squirrels and other rodents are killed by pet cats allowed to roam free.

Of course, hunters, being in the minority and very visible, are much easier to point the finger at. But that is how life works - rather than looking in the mirror, everyone has to blame someone else, and it is usually the minority that gets the dirty end of the stick.

Agreed and agreed and agreed...

We, as a species have overbred... Our first mistake. And the rest of the Earth's inhabitants pay for it. In the way that you described, loss of habitat, etc. but also in humankind's solution and excuse to hunt...

Since you had yours, allow me mine... My point is that yes, we contend with all of those things day in and day out. But if we do whatever we can do to minimize that impact, we'd all get along better...

I know you realize the reason we have an over population of deer to begin with. It's a vicious cycle, isn't it?

And you know what? I watch my kitties stalk and hunt and it's one of the most beautiful, artful, natural things I've ever witnessed... But very rarely do they ever catch anything, except maybe in their dreams

 

[mansome]

People consume alcohol. Would you say that everyone that does, then drives? Would you say that's the norm?

Same can be said for hunting. They may drink, but most aren't stupid enough to pick up a gun while intoxicated.

In both instances there are morons who wouldn't hesitate to do either of the options. I think it's ridiculous to assume that either instance is the norm.

I can pretty much agree with that.....

although in my head that's really all I envision is some guy sitting on a stump drinkin' a beer or something out of a canteen and waiting for a deer to cross his path... For one .. I've seen it *laughs* for two I can't tell you how many drunken hunting stories I"ve heard from people who live for it every fall...

I laugh inside my head at how pathetic they sound telling these stories.. even though they are family and friends.. nothing will change their need to do this barring an accident... it's tradition...

 

[JinXed]

And you know what? I watch my kitties stalk and hunt and it's one of the most beautiful, artful, natural things I've ever witnessed... But very rarely do they ever catch anything, except maybe in their dreams

You must have passive cats.
Everyone I've ever had would leave me "treasures" on my porch at least 4 days of the week- which was oh so pleasant to step into.

 

[JinXed]

I can pretty much agree with that.....

although in my head that's really all I envision is some guy sitting on a stump drinkin' a beer or something out of a canteen and waiting for a deer to cross his path... For one .. I've seen it *laughs* for two I can't tell you how many drunken hunting stories I"ve heard from people who live for it every fall...

I laugh inside my head at how pathetic they sound telling these stories.. even though they are family and friends.. nothing will change their need to do this barring an accident... it's tradition...

I think this is more about your family and who you hang out with. I've grown up in the country, have listened to those same stories - and everyone of them that tells those tales were stone cold sober. Even during the real live action.

My family becomes very upset about those types of hunters - the ones only in it for the "sport", ones that think nothing of shooting a buck just to cut their heads off for their trophy, while leaving the carcass to rot in the field. Or those that use the practice of spotlighting.

Again - it's unfair and unjustified to insinuate that most hunters are like those that you've associated with, as most are not.

 

[Image]

You must have passive cats.
Everyone I've ever had would leave me "treasures" on my porch at least 4 days of the week- which was oh so pleasant to step into.

Mine are partial to snakes

Fortunately they spend the night indoors ... Though I've been the recipient of a gift or two myself!

 

[The Heretic]

I know you realize the reason we have an over population of deer to begin with. It's a vicious cycle, isn't it?

To a degree - yes. I don't hunt deer anymore. Besides the fact that I don't hunt anymore period (although hunting deer isn't near as difficult as elk hunting), I never really cared for the meat, and liked it less as I went on. My parents on the other hand love venison and would eat every ounce that I gave them. Now elk meat - that is good eating.

All that aside, most hunting and most hunters are beneficial to the environment - drunken slobs from Michigan aside.

I am much more concerned about more pressing issues; loss of habitat, pollution and so on. To me, pollution is the big boogey man, not some drunken hunter.

 

[Image]

I am much more concerned about more pressing issues; loss of habitat, pollution and so on. To me, pollution is the big boogey man, not some drunken hunter.

Glad to see we finally have common ground

 

[mansome]

I think this is more about your family and who you hang out with. I've grown up in the country, have listened to those same stories - and everyone of them that tells those tales were stone cold sober. Even during the real live action.

My family becomes very upset about those types of hunters - the ones only in it for the "sport", ones that think nothing of shooting a buck just to cut their heads off for their trophy, while leaving the carcass to rot in the field. Or those that use the practice of spotlighting.

Again - it's unfair and unjustified to insinuate that most hunters are like those that you've associated with, as most are not.

It could be.. but I'm sure there are way more than you would think yourself.....

myself.. I have no need for a gun.. either for sport or protection or for machismo....... The only thing I've known domestic guns to do is cause accidents, kill, and injur people who own them or those that they love.....

 

[Slowlane]

Heretic almost seems like two people to me. (No offence intended – just a personal observation.) I see the person as a very responsible hunter who knows little about the game he hunts. (Not at all uncommon)

The important part is “responsible hunter”.

I might also bring up that it is hunting and fishing that furnishes most of the money for wildlife management and preservation. Most of the hiking trails that are so beloved by some for viewing the wildlife they hate to see hunted are paid for by the hunters.

 

[mansome]

Heretic almost seems like two people to me. (No offence intended – just a personal observation.) I see the person as a very responsible hunter who knows little about the game he hunts. (Not at all uncommon)

The important part is “responsible hunter”.

I might also bring up that it is hunting and fishing that furnishes most of the money for wildlife management and preservation. Most of the hiking trails that are so beloved by some for viewing the wildlife they hate to see hunted are paid for by the hunters.

Like I said before.. I don't mind the killing of animals at all.. we've been doing it for milleniums.... it's in our nature.... If you go back to my original post.. I find it silly that these men get so excited about shooting a caribou 20 feet away after sitting on their ass for hours waiting for the largest one after 2-3 hundred of them slowly walk by.. what great skill is involved in that..?

as a sport it's way over-rated and the skill set needed to hunt deer can be easily acquired....... BUT if that's exciting to you go for it.. I appreciate all the money the hunter's bring in to the state of Michigan.. it almost offsets the time and money it takes to clean up their pollution they leave behind when they go back to the suburbs.......

 

[Image]

Like I said before.. I don't mind the killing of animals at all..

I was trying really hard to be sympathetic to you and your time here...

I take it all back

Do you not find it ironic that I initially began posting to this thread as your ally?

You're saying you don't give a fuck that animals are killed yet you ridicule the hunters... I never realized such an ass.

 

[mansome]

Like I said before.. I don't mind the killing of animals at all..

I was trying really hard to be sympathetic to you and your time here...

I take it all back

Do you not find it ironic that I initially began posting to this thread as your ally?

You're saying you don't give a fuck that animals are killed yet you ridicule the hunters... I never realized such an ass.

My logic makes perfect sense.. I don't care about the killing of the animal.. what I find pathetic is the "sport" of it... seems quite lame to me .. not a challenge at all..

now those that hunt for sustinance I have much more respect for..

but a sport?

I eat eggs, steaks, chicken, and pork.... what's the difference in those animals being killed and those that are killed for hunting? I don't see any difference.. I also don't see a difference in placing higher importance on certain animals.... why is it ok to kill cattle for leather, but not ok to kill dogs for food? I don't see the difference between a chicken and a horse... just ones larger......

 

[mansome]

I should say though.. those animals on the endangered list should be left alone....

 

[Slowlane]

If you read all my posts, I said I don’t hunt anymore, and I said that, in my view hunting isn’t a sport. I don’t disagree with you hunting example, and some hunting practices turn my stomach. In my part of the country most hunters are responsible and try to leave few marks on the environment, after all they want to come back next year.

You obviously have no idea how much money is involved or what it’s used for. In Colorado alone it furnishes 1.5 billion dollars a rear to the economy and furnishes 30,000. Among other things it has furnished money for the restoration of the Bald Eagle and the Black Footed Ferret. Nearly all the money fro the study of chronic wasting disease comes from these funds.

Get some facts.

 

[rcfstl]

I grew up with a gun in my hand before I could walk, and hunted when I was 12 and until I was about 15. Dont do it anymore but I am not anti hunting. In the west the predators have mostly been removed, Bears, wolves, mountain lions the only ones thriving are coyotes and a full grown coyote can not bring down a healthy deer. Humans have to take the place of those predators or the deer population with over grow its decreasing habitat. But there are hunters and there are HUNTERS. My family takes time off from work to hunt and they are very careful with what they take. They go for the biggest buck or doe you can only kill so many and a 70lbs doe is not worth the effort. I also know HUNTERS who kill and kill and drink and drink and end up blowing off their toes or shouting some berry picker.

And those HUNTERS who kill on those managed hunts are glorified butchers. Hunt a grizzly bear with a bow and arrow that I can respect

 

[mansome]

If you read all my posts, I said I don’t hunt anymore, and I said that, in my view hunting isn’t a sport. I don’t disagree with you hunting example, and some hunting practices turn my stomach. In my part of the country most hunters are responsible and try to leave few marks on the environment, after all they want to come back next year.

You obviously have no idea how much money is involved or what it’s used for. In Colorado alone it furnishes 1.5 billion dollars a rear to the economy and furnishes 30,000. Among other things it has furnished money for the restoration of the Bald Eagle and the Black Footed Ferret. Nearly all the money fro the study of chronic wasting disease comes from these funds.

Get some facts.

uhmm.. if you are talking to me I wasn't disagreeing with you.....

The licensing is like a sin tax... I know that.....

 

[The Heretic]

I grew up with a gun in my hand before I could walk, and hunted when I was 12 and until I was about 15. Dont do it anymore but I am not anti hunting. In the west the predators have mostly been removed, Bears, wolves, mountain lions the only ones thriving are coyotes and a full grown coyote can not bring down a healthy deer. Humans have to take the place of those predators or the deer population with over grow its decreasing habitat.

We are slowly bring back some of the predators. Grizzlies have been spotted south of I-90 in WA state - this is a state from which they have been extinct for decades if not a century. Wolves too are coming back. Not enough, but slowly they are coming back. This is a good thing IMO - the more wildlife the more I like it.

And those HUNTERS who kill on those managed hunts are glorified butchers. Hunt a grizzly bear with a bow and arrow that I can respect

And a butcher is a bad person? I have been on managed hunts - they aren't the slaughter people make them out to be and they are necessary.

As for hunting grizzlies - I don't hunt predators.