hunting - an alternative pastime to it ...
- Thread starter Golden
- Start date
Hmm...Good question.
Come to Pennsylvania this fall and ask the farmers whose crops have been destroyed and are losing their farms cause they can't pay the bills.
Or, maybe you should wait until next winter and ask the thousands of deer that will starve to death because of an inadequate food supply for the increased population.
I happen to have lived in a suburban area of Pittsburgh that has the densest population of deer in the state because there had been no hunting in the past. There's nothing quite like leaving for work in the morning and seeing a group of underfed deer trying to open a dumpster lid so they can survive another day or two.
Fortunately, those of you residing in Europe managed to kill off your animal herds hundreds of years ago. I've been lucky enough to see what happens to a herd of 200 hundred deer forced to survive in an area of about 8 square miles and bounded by rivers an interstates that keeps them from migrating. By this time of year it's not a pretty site.
I realize your post was made partly in jest, Golden, but in an area such as where I live there are some real issues that are addressed by hunting. It's not always done just for kicks.
By the way, I don't hunt, and never have hunted. I'm too damn lazy to spend that much time wandering around the woods.
Come to Pennsylvania this fall and ask the farmers whose crops have been destroyed and are losing their farms cause they can't pay the bills.
Or, maybe you should wait until next winter and ask the thousands of deer that will starve to death because of an inadequate food supply for the increased population.
I happen to have lived in a suburban area of Pittsburgh that has the densest population of deer in the state because there had been no hunting in the past. There's nothing quite like leaving for work in the morning and seeing a group of underfed deer trying to open a dumpster lid so they can survive another day or two.
Fortunately, those of you residing in Europe managed to kill off your animal herds hundreds of years ago. I've been lucky enough to see what happens to a herd of 200 hundred deer forced to survive in an area of about 8 square miles and bounded by rivers an interstates that keeps them from migrating. By this time of year it's not a pretty site.
I realize your post was made partly in jest, Golden, but in an area such as where I live there are some real issues that are addressed by hunting. It's not always done just for kicks.
By the way, I don't hunt, and never have hunted. I'm too damn lazy to spend that much time wandering around the woods.
while I totally agree with the emotional sentiment. the truth is somewhat more sensible, as hit upon by Lash....the world we live in is not the garden it once was...controlled hunting is now a neccessity...if only because of our numbers and the development that involves....we have already taken out the natural predators...therefore the balance of nature is gone... the only way now to keep that balance is to have controlled hunting...without it, herding animals such as deer...suffer terrible hardships. but then again so do children in many parts of the world.... hmmmm....boy this sure got depressing didn't it.....
G
Guest
Guest
Buffaloes
Not that I think you were, Hawksview, but equating human life with animals is non-sensical. Case in point is one of PETA's adverts where the tagline is (paraphrasing here, can't remember exactly) "Tree-Dog-Person", meaning we are all of the same worth.
I saw an interview once with a top-ranking PETA spokeswoman who when asked the question, "If while driving, a human baby, that you did not know, and your pet that you cherished were in the road and you could only avoid hitting one, which would you choose?" To my utter astonishment and disgust, she said she would swerve around her pet. (And these people call hunters wackos?)
Of course, I do not advocate cruelty to animals in any way, but I certainly do not equate human life with an animal or plant.
I saw an interview once with a top-ranking PETA spokeswoman who when asked the question, "If while driving, a human baby, that you did not know, and your pet that you cherished were in the road and you could only avoid hitting one, which would you choose?" To my utter astonishment and disgust, she said she would swerve around her pet. (And these people call hunters wackos?)
Of course, I do not advocate cruelty to animals in any way, but I certainly do not equate human life with an animal or plant.
Eve_of_destruction
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2000
- Posts
- 513
I've only had one car wreck in my 39 years, and it was because I hit a deer (completely totalled my van, btw). And since that time I've had several near misses... the deer in the area where I live are, like lasher said, extremely overpopulated. I'm not a hunter myself, nor do I know anyone who is, but if someone can come up with a better way to control the overpopulation of deer than hunting, then I'm all for it. Until then... a hunting we shall go!
Peace,
Eve
Peace,
Eve
Rowan,
That was a rambling segue, sort of a "gosh, the world is truly fucked isn't it" kinda deal.
Since you brought it up, I personally think that PETA is one of the most excessive, politically correct, mass histeria (spell check!) group gropes I've ever seen.
Then again, I don't place "us" as humans above the animal kingdom - I think we are just a third species of chimpanzee.
In addition, Vegans totally piss me off too - plants are a "life" form are they not - so why do some people think it's okay to slaughter and eat plants and not animals. Insipid circular logic.
The point there is that every life form has to ingest something to survive. So I think it's all relative - as a movie doctor once said - "I'll cook them up with some farva beans" (slurping sound)
If there is anyone that I didn't piss off with that rant, please let me know and I'll try harder next time.
That was a rambling segue, sort of a "gosh, the world is truly fucked isn't it" kinda deal.
Since you brought it up, I personally think that PETA is one of the most excessive, politically correct, mass histeria (spell check!) group gropes I've ever seen.
Then again, I don't place "us" as humans above the animal kingdom - I think we are just a third species of chimpanzee.
In addition, Vegans totally piss me off too - plants are a "life" form are they not - so why do some people think it's okay to slaughter and eat plants and not animals. Insipid circular logic.
The point there is that every life form has to ingest something to survive. So I think it's all relative - as a movie doctor once said - "I'll cook them up with some farva beans" (slurping sound)
If there is anyone that I didn't piss off with that rant, please let me know and I'll try harder next time.
Hawksview,
Although I may not agree with your "third species of chimpanzees" comment, I'm right with you concerning PETA and the flawed logic of other such groups.
As for pissing people off, if you happen to kill someone's sacred cow, I'd like a sirloin--medium rare, please.
[This message has been edited by Rowan (edited 03-01-2000).]
Although I may not agree with your "third species of chimpanzees" comment, I'm right with you concerning PETA and the flawed logic of other such groups.
As for pissing people off, if you happen to kill someone's sacred cow, I'd like a sirloin--medium rare, please.
[This message has been edited by Rowan (edited 03-01-2000).]
Laurel
Kitty Mama
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Posts
- 20,692
LOL Golden!
That's no joke, what e_o_d said.. Manu had the unfortunate experience of being behind a woman as she slammed into a deer.. There's a semi-rural stretch of road between his house and the college he attended, and that's where the full-grown doe tried to cross the road at a blind curve... The woman was devastated - she felt so bad.. the doe lived - 3 broken legs, god knows what else inside busted... Her car was absolutely totalled. What a mess..
That's no joke, what e_o_d said.. Manu had the unfortunate experience of being behind a woman as she slammed into a deer.. There's a semi-rural stretch of road between his house and the college he attended, and that's where the full-grown doe tried to cross the road at a blind curve... The woman was devastated - she felt so bad.. the doe lived - 3 broken legs, god knows what else inside busted... Her car was absolutely totalled. What a mess..
So vegans piss you off do they Hawk...LOL...well I am a vegan. Yeah, of course I realise that plants are also a form of life. Somehow, though, I have been able to reconcile myself to the fact that I am causing less harm and suffering by by sticking to veggies rather than by eating an animals flesh.
I take Lasher's point - that 'conservation' issue doesn't worry me because I know that there will always be people on this planet who enjoy killing or who enjoy meat. There will always be someone out there to kill - I just no that it won't be me.
At the end of the day, its my personal set of values which govern my life - its my karma - and its my life trip. But I certainly don't get pissed off by the fact that you eat meat....hey, thats your life trip - thats your karma.
I take Lasher's point - that 'conservation' issue doesn't worry me because I know that there will always be people on this planet who enjoy killing or who enjoy meat. There will always be someone out there to kill - I just no that it won't be me.
At the end of the day, its my personal set of values which govern my life - its my karma - and its my life trip. But I certainly don't get pissed off by the fact that you eat meat....hey, thats your life trip - thats your karma.
You know what's really fun? My in-law's raise beef cattle, not a lot, just enough that they never have to buy meat, and the meat they do sell covers the expenses on their little farm. At any given time they've got about 20 head on the farm.
Well, my mother-in-law seems to think they are all just big dogs, so they all have names. And there's nothing like sitting down to a meal and knowing the name of the animal you are eating.
First time this happened was two summers ago, when we sat down for lunch and my mother-in-law told us we were having Sloppy Phoebes. Phoebe had died a few weeks earlier while giving birth.
Just thought I'd share that with ya'all.
Well, my mother-in-law seems to think they are all just big dogs, so they all have names. And there's nothing like sitting down to a meal and knowing the name of the animal you are eating.
First time this happened was two summers ago, when we sat down for lunch and my mother-in-law told us we were having Sloppy Phoebes. Phoebe had died a few weeks earlier while giving birth.
Just thought I'd share that with ya'all.
Jeez Lash.....I have always said that I will never eat anything which has parents (...or kids for that matter). Eating something with a name....well....er.....I don't really know what more I can possibly add.
Now plants on the other hand......*starts ducking stuff and then decides to exit the stage gracefully - while still unscathed*
Now plants on the other hand......*starts ducking stuff and then decides to exit the stage gracefully - while still unscathed*
lash...yep...exactly what my grandmother did...we would sit down to dinner and she would tell us "who" we were eating so to speak...
Slut_boy... no doubt, different strokes...
I personally fall under the category of ....
I don't care if it crawls, swims, flies, hops, runs, if I can catch it - I'll eat it...
and by the way Rowan... step right up...I'm pulling the savory and slightly bloody meat off of the grill right now...
Slut_boy... no doubt, different strokes...
I personally fall under the category of ....
I don't care if it crawls, swims, flies, hops, runs, if I can catch it - I'll eat it...
and by the way Rowan... step right up...I'm pulling the savory and slightly bloody meat off of the grill right now...
*Pats self on back* I do what I can. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Let's see, while we're on the subject. My in-laws first bull was named Andre. They had to replace him last summer because most of their current group of cows are Andre's children.
For a couple month's we didn't make it out to the farm for whatever reason, and each time my mother-in-law would call she'd ask when we were coming out to see "Andre's new barn".
So we finally make it out there and as we're pulling up the drive, I'm expecting to see some sort of new building. But there's nothing new. We go in the house and we ask about "Andre's new barn", and my mother-in-law points toward's the kitchen and says, "It's right there."
"Andre's new barn" is a 32 cubic ft upright freezer. At the time he was butchered Andre weighed just about 2000lbs. His hanging weight (after the butcher is done cleaning him, what's left is, well, meat, and it "hangs" in the meat locker) was 1100lbs.
BTW, somewhere around here there's a picture my wife took of her 100lb mother rubbing noses with her 2000lb bull.
Let's see, while we're on the subject. My in-laws first bull was named Andre. They had to replace him last summer because most of their current group of cows are Andre's children.
For a couple month's we didn't make it out to the farm for whatever reason, and each time my mother-in-law would call she'd ask when we were coming out to see "Andre's new barn".
So we finally make it out there and as we're pulling up the drive, I'm expecting to see some sort of new building. But there's nothing new. We go in the house and we ask about "Andre's new barn", and my mother-in-law points toward's the kitchen and says, "It's right there."
"Andre's new barn" is a 32 cubic ft upright freezer. At the time he was butchered Andre weighed just about 2000lbs. His hanging weight (after the butcher is done cleaning him, what's left is, well, meat, and it "hangs" in the meat locker) was 1100lbs.
BTW, somewhere around here there's a picture my wife took of her 100lb mother rubbing noses with her 2000lb bull.
Slut_boy----You don't want to do the killing eh? How many thousands of insects have you killed on your car windshield just for the sake of easier transportation. Insects are living creatures too, and have a will to survive too. No I'm not a socialist, tree-huggin, bedwetter to bring this up. I don't believe insects should be given any special treatment either, but then I treat all animals the same. I don't think its any more or less barbaric to kill and eat a deer than it is to kill a mosquito thats flying around my head.
Not that Slut_boy needs defended, but he did address the issue of insects in another post which I think must be on another thread somewhere.
Now, Slut_boy seems to be fairly consistent in his beliefs and I respect that. Just because I'm an omnivore doesn't mean that Slut_boy has to be an omnivore. If he wants to be a herbivore, for what ever reason, that's his business. What I won't accept is someone coming in here and telling anyone of us that we have to be herbivores just because that person thinks we should.
You know what, I don't want to do the killing either. When my mother-in-law told me we were eating Sloppy Phoebes, I laughed my ass off. That's some funny shit. But that doesn't mean I want to be the one at the slaughter house shooting the fucking cattle in the head. Let someone else do it.
And the whole treating animals the same thing. Cmon, you run into insects when you're driving your car because they're insects, it's what they do. But if you drive up on a herd of deer hanging out on the road, your not gonna run into every damn last one of them, are you?? Of course not, you'd fuck up your car. So how are you treating all animals the same?? Hell, we eat cows and tuna and chickens cause their ugly and they're easy to raise. We like dogs and dolphins and parrots because they can be cute and entertaining. Where's your fucking equal treatment there??
Christ, I'm turning into Dennis Miller now,..."I don't wanna go off on a rant here..." (He's the only reason I still have HBO...If I find out which of you people are watching "Titanic" every goddamn time they show it....well....it won't be pretty).
Dammit, I'm up way too late....
Now, Slut_boy seems to be fairly consistent in his beliefs and I respect that. Just because I'm an omnivore doesn't mean that Slut_boy has to be an omnivore. If he wants to be a herbivore, for what ever reason, that's his business. What I won't accept is someone coming in here and telling anyone of us that we have to be herbivores just because that person thinks we should.
You know what, I don't want to do the killing either. When my mother-in-law told me we were eating Sloppy Phoebes, I laughed my ass off. That's some funny shit. But that doesn't mean I want to be the one at the slaughter house shooting the fucking cattle in the head. Let someone else do it.
And the whole treating animals the same thing. Cmon, you run into insects when you're driving your car because they're insects, it's what they do. But if you drive up on a herd of deer hanging out on the road, your not gonna run into every damn last one of them, are you?? Of course not, you'd fuck up your car. So how are you treating all animals the same?? Hell, we eat cows and tuna and chickens cause their ugly and they're easy to raise. We like dogs and dolphins and parrots because they can be cute and entertaining. Where's your fucking equal treatment there??
Christ, I'm turning into Dennis Miller now,..."I don't wanna go off on a rant here..." (He's the only reason I still have HBO...If I find out which of you people are watching "Titanic" every goddamn time they show it....well....it won't be pretty).
Dammit, I'm up way too late....
LOL @ Dennis Miller.
Whelenman - its okay to ask me that type of question. Lasher is right, I have expressed my views on the issue of insects on another thread somewhere.
Your point is valid. And to be honest with you, I don't intentionally kill insects either. If I accidently kill them then I kinda tell myself that its okay - I meant no harm. The point for me is that if I can avoid doing the harm, then I feel that I have a duty to do so. But we can't always guard against accidental harm.
Thats why criminal law doesn't punish accidents. There is a difference between me deliberately hitting you across the face with a broom stick to me accidently knocking you in the face while sweeping - one can be excused and is thus unpunishable whilst the other is inexcusable and warrants punishment.
Whelenman - its okay to ask me that type of question. Lasher is right, I have expressed my views on the issue of insects on another thread somewhere.
Your point is valid. And to be honest with you, I don't intentionally kill insects either. If I accidently kill them then I kinda tell myself that its okay - I meant no harm. The point for me is that if I can avoid doing the harm, then I feel that I have a duty to do so. But we can't always guard against accidental harm.
Thats why criminal law doesn't punish accidents. There is a difference between me deliberately hitting you across the face with a broom stick to me accidently knocking you in the face while sweeping - one can be excused and is thus unpunishable whilst the other is inexcusable and warrants punishment.
Just the facts mamm.
> > > -Number of physicians in the U.S...........................700,000
> > > Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year...........120,000
> > > {That'a ratio of nearly 1 in 5 Dr.will mess up this year!-Scary,
HUH?}
> > > Accidental deaths per physician...........................0.171
> > >
> > > Number of gun owners in the U.S...........................80,000,000
> > > Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups)...1,500
> > > Accidental deaths per gun owner...........................0.0000188
> > >
> > > Therefore, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than
gun
> > > owners. Why isn't Washington D.C. full of lobbyists against dangerous
> > > doctors?
> > >
>
> __________
> > > -Number of physicians in the U.S...........................700,000
> > > Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year...........120,000
> > > {That'a ratio of nearly 1 in 5 Dr.will mess up this year!-Scary,
HUH?}
> > > Accidental deaths per physician...........................0.171
> > >
> > > Number of gun owners in the U.S...........................80,000,000
> > > Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups)...1,500
> > > Accidental deaths per gun owner...........................0.0000188
> > >
> > > Therefore, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than
gun
> > > owners. Why isn't Washington D.C. full of lobbyists against dangerous
> > > doctors?
> > >
>
> __________
Laurel
Kitty Mama
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Posts
- 20,692
LOL..
Now, Slut_boy seems to be fairly consistent in his beliefs and I respect that. Just
because I'm an omnivore doesn't mean that Slut_boy has to be an omnivore. If he
wants to be a herbivore, for what ever reason, that's his business. What I won't
accept is someone coming in here and telling anyone of us that we have to be
herbivores just because that person thinks we should.
You know what, I don't want to do the killing either. When my mother-in-law told me
we were eating Sloppy Phoebes, I laughed my ass off. That's some funny shit. But
that doesn't mean I want to be the one at the slaughter house shooting the fucking
cattle in the head. Let someone else do it.
Precisely... I personally don't have a problem with the idea of things killing other things to eat - that's nature, baby. So the idea of people eating animals doesn't seem any more wrong to me than lions stalking zebras. What does bother me is the factory farming of cattle, chickens, etc. (not the range-farming you're discussing, Lasher). Not only is it cruel, but it's unsanitary and inhumane. They have to pump the animals full of antibiotics to keep them alive under those conditions, and all that crap is passed on to us. Also, we're overfishing our seas, rivers, and streams. I ate vegetarian for 3 or 4 years, then became the cynical burn-out I am today and decided the world was going to shit so why not have a chicken sandwich... I'm not proud of it, but it's true...
Diets high in meat are generally lower in vegetables, fiber, carbs, etc., and thus aren't very healthy. It's all about moderation and balance. I respect Slut_boy's choices, and I respect Lasher's choices. What annoys me is when either side - the diehard vegans or the meat-fiends - proselytize. One side says you'll die if you eat meat (the whole "30 lb. ball of undigested meat in your stomach" crap is ridiculous), and the other says you'll die if you don't ("a meal ain't a meal without a good bleedin' steak"). Neither are correct... Vegetarians and vegans can be the healthiest people on earth (provided the take the proper B supplements, etc.). And my friend's grandparents are well into their 80's, go on month-long trips around the world, walk every morning, and they do eat meat (though they've cut back on the fatty stuff for the last 10 years or so). So much of health is predetermined genetically, and the rest is all about balance. You can have anything you want in moderation and still be healthy.
Blah. This was supposed to be short. Argh.
Now, Slut_boy seems to be fairly consistent in his beliefs and I respect that. Just
because I'm an omnivore doesn't mean that Slut_boy has to be an omnivore. If he
wants to be a herbivore, for what ever reason, that's his business. What I won't
accept is someone coming in here and telling anyone of us that we have to be
herbivores just because that person thinks we should.
You know what, I don't want to do the killing either. When my mother-in-law told me
we were eating Sloppy Phoebes, I laughed my ass off. That's some funny shit. But
that doesn't mean I want to be the one at the slaughter house shooting the fucking
cattle in the head. Let someone else do it.
Precisely... I personally don't have a problem with the idea of things killing other things to eat - that's nature, baby. So the idea of people eating animals doesn't seem any more wrong to me than lions stalking zebras. What does bother me is the factory farming of cattle, chickens, etc. (not the range-farming you're discussing, Lasher). Not only is it cruel, but it's unsanitary and inhumane. They have to pump the animals full of antibiotics to keep them alive under those conditions, and all that crap is passed on to us. Also, we're overfishing our seas, rivers, and streams. I ate vegetarian for 3 or 4 years, then became the cynical burn-out I am today and decided the world was going to shit so why not have a chicken sandwich... I'm not proud of it, but it's true...
Diets high in meat are generally lower in vegetables, fiber, carbs, etc., and thus aren't very healthy. It's all about moderation and balance. I respect Slut_boy's choices, and I respect Lasher's choices. What annoys me is when either side - the diehard vegans or the meat-fiends - proselytize. One side says you'll die if you eat meat (the whole "30 lb. ball of undigested meat in your stomach" crap is ridiculous), and the other says you'll die if you don't ("a meal ain't a meal without a good bleedin' steak"). Neither are correct... Vegetarians and vegans can be the healthiest people on earth (provided the take the proper B supplements, etc.). And my friend's grandparents are well into their 80's, go on month-long trips around the world, walk every morning, and they do eat meat (though they've cut back on the fatty stuff for the last 10 years or so). So much of health is predetermined genetically, and the rest is all about balance. You can have anything you want in moderation and still be healthy.
Blah. This was supposed to be short. Argh.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,682
"Lasher, I think that's the weirdest thing I've ever read here."
Really? I heard this story about a woman and a lobster....
Really? I heard this story about a woman and a lobster....
