Humiliation

[Lizzie_Borden]

I find this interesting, I was just thinking...
Had the OP been a male submissive the " go piss off " would have been the common, automatic, knee jerk reaction to his question and he probably would have been treated to some mean, possibly vicious verbal insults as well... for even daring to ask.

How new male submissives are treated here...no matter what they ask it seems...compared to how new female submissives are treated here, in my opinion is strikingly opposite. Other than people offhandedly assuming all of them are just here for "wank material" and so treat them like they are. Why don't their questions get answered too?



I am going to pull my head out of my ass and express myself freely now because I have a few things I that have been on my mind anyway.
Again I question this.
Why do people think that replying with a few suggestions to a new submissive, who is here asking a question, in obedience to her Master's wishes....is doing her assignment for her? I don't think these couples would ask if they weren't curious to know and eager to learn new things. I thought that's what this board was about. Sharing ideas, information and opinions.

He sent his submissive to ask us and that makes sense. For had he come on here and started a thread asking the same question himself, he most likely would have been treated like shit for it and left pissed off, with no new ideas or insight into the topic.

I don't understand why this board seems to be becoming ,...I am trying to express how I feel here.ummmm
more and more too big for it's own britches, I dunno...it's like some people don't want to lower themselves in order to help other people out with these little things because these little things are unworthy of them.

Is it just easier and more fun to be nasty, snarky and rude, than be tolerant of those people who simply do not know things about things or who are at a dead end regarding fresh ideas?

Could attitudes like this be one of the reasons behind why hardly any fresh new members who come here to learn about BDSM, seem to stick around here for very long?

Ok there I said it...go ahead and beat the fuckout of me if ya all want, I don't care and it's worth it to me because I said exactly what has been on my mind. (that is beat me up...if you are fast enough to catch me) lol *winks*

Heh. I was kinda aiming for the 'now run along' thing.. but less harshly.

I think it's seen as 'doing someone's assignment for them' is because it's seen as doing all the work, providing all the ideas.

Now, if someone came in asking about how to go about humiliating someone, and asked for tips on *how* to find and push those buttons, it would be an entirely different thing.

But to me, just asking for ideas straight up seems like they're not really putting the effort in. Again, if they simply prefaced it with 'this is what we've done, this is what has worked, but I'm fresh out of ideas, what have y'all got?', I'd say they'd get more helpful answers.

Granted, they may not know exactly what they're asking for. The OP for instance, has asked for public humiliation ideas and gotten a lot of (in my opinion only) mostly discipline/exhibitionistic thrill ideas, which she's happy to run with. Kudos to her.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. Hell, there's tonnes I don't know. But ya gotta nut up and say so, not just blurt out some requests. The more info given to work with, the more seriously it seems to be taken.

I dunno. Just thoughts.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Is humiliation really all that difficult? It is just a matter of figuring out what makes the bottom tick, and playing off it. Avoid the really core identity stuff, but poke, prod, and expose the next layer. Voila. It's not rocket science.

Perhaps in this case the PYL thought that what would humiliate her most was being requested to ask on a public forum?

In any case I don't see what's so big and clever about telling people to piss off and do their own homework. A lot of the less experienced people who come here are going through periods of exploration and learning, and that inevitably makes them vulnerable. Being told to 'piss off' may not be the best thing for them. If you personally don't want to answer, don't answer, but I don't see slapping newbies down as admirable behaviour.

We were all new at this game once. I don't know about you but I got to the point where I could come out and talk about it in public through a long period of deep and troubled soul searching. It wasn't easy or comfortable. Society as a whole looks on us as deviants, and as potentially dangerous depraved deviants. People who are just coming to realise that these labels apply to them need support, not slapping down.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Granted, they may not know exactly what they're asking for. The OP for instance, has asked for public humiliation ideas and gotten a lot of (in my opinion only) mostly discipline/exhibitionistic thrill ideas, which she's happy to run with. Kudos to her.

There's nothing wrong with not knowing. Hell, there's tonnes I don't know.

OK, Lizzie, if you're saying I don't know anything about humiliation, share your knowledge with me, so that I can extend my repertoire. This is a public forum, it's not just the original poster who could potentially benefit from what you say. I too (and many others of us, i expect) are here as much to learn as to hang out and to share experience.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

OK, Lizzie, if you're saying I don't know anything about humiliation, share your knowledge with me, so that I can extend my repertoire. This is a public forum, it's not just the original poster who could potentially benefit from what you say. I too (and many others of us, i expect) are here as much to learn as to hang out and to share experience.

Oh no, not at all, never did I say that.

I was just saying that to me that's what those ideas seem like. Hence the (in my opinion only) that I chucked in there.

Not that they're not hot. They are. Just different hot. You know, like pepper and wasabi.

Unless you have something further to add on why you yourself, or the people you've played that scenario with, have found them to be humiliating situations? There could be something other than the public display factor that I'm missing. That's just what I zeroed in on. I don't know. I'd like to be enlightened though.

I think those things don't work for me, simply because (and again, this is just to me, what I think and feel, your kilometre-age may vary ) there's nothing terribly personal about it. To me, there's nothing better than being exposed emotionally, stripped bare, having every secret thought and desire and shameful thrill right there for them to see as their gaze bores into yours, as their words cut into your very core.

*thinks* I'm trying to remember why the things that set me off have done so. It's all the context, the heat of the moment. Various things have included playing on my lack of sexual experience. Once, we toyed with my actual desire to please, and the lengths I would go to do so. To be made to feel ashamed of the fact that I'd wet myself, or lick my own boots, or beg to not be made to cum because I can not cum then, or not cum for some indeterminable length of time, and then to hear shock and amazement because since when would a slut beg not to cum?

Simply for his amusement. Because to do so made me feel worth something.

Because the lack of control over my emotional self was the biggest fucking thrill of my life.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I find this interesting, I was just thinking...

<<snip>>
Is it just easier and more fun to be nasty, snarky and rude, than be tolerant of those people who simply do not know things about things or who are at a dead end regarding fresh ideas?

Could attitudes like this be one of the reasons behind why hardly any fresh new members who come here to learn about BDSM, seem to stick around here for very long?

Ok there I said it...go ahead and beat the fuckout of me if ya all want, I don't care and it's worth it to me because I said exactly what has been on my mind. (that is beat me up...if you are fast enough to catch me) lol *winks*

I totally agree with you. I can fully understand how a person involved with BDSM and/or this forum for a long time can get weary of the same questions being asked in the same way, but they is no need to be rude.

I still consider myself very new to submission. There are times when I have questions that I'm not so sure how to phrase. Or that may sound stupid or not thought out fully. It's difficult when a person is not familiar with the jargon of BDSM to know exactly how to ask a question to get the best answer.

As for a PYL telling their pyl to ask the forum for their opinions or suggestions. I can understand that, also. If a pyl is start starting out and is learning to trust their PYL it can help to get other opinions, too. I also don't think a pyl coming here for help is doing their homework for them. They are doing research, they came here didn't they?

 

[SimonBrooke]

I still consider myself very new to submission. There are times when I have questions that I'm not so sure how to phrase. Or that may sound stupid or not thought out fully. It's difficult when a person is not familiar with the jargon of BDSM to know exactly how to ask a question to get the best answer.

For heaven's sake let's not tolerate the attitude that unless you use some cliquey in-crowd jargon you're not really kinked. We're people. We're all different. What we share in common is an attitude to sexuality which rebels against the post-feminist orthodoxy of parity of power in sexual encounters (I'm not wonderfully happy with that sentence and will happily accept some modification of it).

But let's be inclusive not exclusive, welcoming not cliquey. Heavens, the more newbie pyls we welcome in here, the more there are for us evil PYLs to prey upon

 

[ecstaticsub]

For heaven's sake let's not tolerate the attitude that unless you use some cliquey in-crowd jargon you're not really kinked. We're people. We're all different. What we share in common is an attitude to sexuality which rebels against the post-feminist orthodoxy of parity of power in sexual encounters (I'm not wonderfully happy with that sentence and will happily accept some modification of it).

But let's be inclusive not exclusive, welcoming not cliquey. Heavens, the more newbie pyls we welcome in here, the more there are for us evil PYLs to prey upon

Exactly! The more new people join us the more interesting the board can be. (both PYL and pyl and everything in between, even those who are just curious)

 

[BiBunny]

I just think it's lazy. And I admit, my view is probably skewed because I talk to people who want to be spoonfed fantasies all day long. But it's often very exasperating.

I think the reason nobody said, "Do your own homework," is that it's basically pointless to say. Refer to the "How do you tell someone they're submissive?" or whatever it's called thread for how many people pull the martyr act if you don't blow sunshine up their asses.

There are 15739682461305 sites with stuff like this on it. Google is everyone's friend. I think if you really want to learn something, you should try to do some research, rather than marching into a room and announcing, "I don't know what to do. You tell me."

Plus, I always want to ask, "Aren't you the one who's into this? Don't you have fantasies?" I mean, if you're doing this kind of stuff and don't fantasize about it semi-regularly, then why exactly are you doing it again?

I'm not very creative myself, but if you talk to someone for awhile, you can get a pretty good idea of his/her weak spots and where to poke for humiliation, you know?

Go ahead and flame me not being a bitch. I've certainly heard it all before.

 

[CutieMouse]

Actually, one reason I haven't post much lately, is because it often seems that what I view [and intend] as common sense advice, is viewed as rude/pissy/not inclusive enough/snobby. I'd rather try to keep my thoughts to myself, than offend.

I happen to love humiliation play, but [for me] it has to be fine tuned [to me]. For example, there currently exists two iPhone videos of yours truly giving really really great head, and masturbating. Some women wouldn't be phased at all, but when it was all said and done and those clips were saved, I wanted to sink through the floor from embarrassment. It's been a month or two, and the prude in me still cringes, knowing those clips are on his iPhone and all he has to do is tap an icon to watch them - regardless of where he is or what he's doing. I trust him not to share them, I am confident he won't... but he could. And the could is what hits the humiliation sweet spot [for me].

 

[sadangel]

But let's be inclusive not exclusive, welcoming not cliquey.

Would that it were so.


Cutie. I for one like your style and what you post. You are direct. Blunt. I like that in a person.

 

[graceanne]

Honestly, I don't contribute to threads like this because I strongly suspect the majority of them are people looking for wank fodder, and I'm not participating. (Yes, the same reason I don't reply to people who PM me random shit - I won't help them get off.)

I've lost track of how many times people have come to this thread with the line 'my PYL told me to think of something that would humiliate me (or a majority of other things) do you have an ideas?' It's an OLD line, and I have my doubts about the honesty of said person's intentions.

I know that not everyone is lying, and sadly enough the people who aren't get ignored just like everyone else, which isn't fair. But know what? That's the reality of life, honest people pay for dishonest people's bull.

And it has nothing to do with the person being a male sub or a fem sub - I could care less. I don't contribute to threads like this regardless.

 

[The_Good_Sub]

my wife wears the key to my Chasity device on a necklace, when people ask what it is, she just says its to my husband. i would imagine some get it, i mean her sister giggled about it, whatever that means. Knowing that strangers and people i know and might actually meet in public might know that i am in 24hr bondage is a bit humiliating but i like it.

 

[BiBunny]

Honestly, I don't contribute to threads like this because I strongly suspect the majority of them are people looking for wank fodder, and I'm not participating. (Yes, the same reason I don't reply to people who PM me random shit - I won't help them get off.)

I've lost track of how many times people have come to this thread with the line 'my PYL told me to think of something that would humiliate me (or a majority of other things) do you have an ideas?' It's an OLD line, and I have my doubts about the honesty of said person's intentions.

I know that not everyone is lying, and sadly enough the people who aren't get ignored just like everyone else, which isn't fair. But know what? That's the reality of life, honest people pay for dishonest people's bull.

And it has nothing to do with the person being a male sub or a fem sub - I could care less. I don't contribute to threads like this regardless.

That, too.

 

[BlackWingedOne]

Alright, this has gone out of hand.


I WASNT asking anyone to do my homework, so back the fuck off from that. My Master and i had run into a dead end on humiliation, so we wanted to see what others did and go from there. In effect a few of you have told me to piss off, thats fine.

But if you have nothing to contribute to the thread, don't post. Simple.

i came here to get ideas and advice and i get met with rudeness and mean people.

Seriously....

W/we have had ideas, but W/we wanted other peoples ideas on it, to see what we could get out of it. Why is it so hard for people to be nice and helpful when all i am asking is for other people's experiences?

i humbly thank those who have given me good suggestions and those who have stuck up for me, it is appreciated.

To the rest of you, forget it. i don't need to be chided like a child and told to piss off when i am doing what Master told me, and trying to further both of our knowledge.

And Bibunny, i have googled, i did alot of research before i even posted. So, please don't assume i'm trying to take an easy way out, not the case at all.

 

[BiBunny]

Like clockwork.

 

[00Syd]

Eh, I don't have a problem with this sort of thing. I get some of my best ideas for scenes by listening to friends tell stories about scenes they've done, and ideas they've had. Getting ideas from others experiences is totally legitimate, IMO.

 

[kitten_candy]

Post a fairly basic question on the BDSM board and wait to get flamed?


Actually, though, was Homburg really being all that cranky? He was simply reiterating what several other "oldies" (vs newbies) said... rather than list specific scenes, he said figure out what makes you tick and go from there.


Like Syd, i get a kick out of reading specifics. Not always wank material but fun to keep filed away for future reference.

 

[BiBunny]

She didn't ask for people's stories, though. She asked what dude could do to her. That's a good bit different.

Also, there are a zillion threads on humiliation here. Search function and all that.

 

[00Syd]

Like Syd, i get a kick out of reading specifics. Not always wank material but fun to keep filed away for future reference.

Haha, I don't know if I'd say I get a "kick" out of it. Usually hearing the specifics and intimate details of other people's sex lives, kinky or not, makes me feel pretty awkward. But if someone is explaining the broad outline of some scene they had (for ex: "Last night I had a takedown scene with so-and-so, it was cool, it involved these main things") I might go, "huh, that sounds interesting. I think I might like to investigate that sort of scene further and perhaps try it."

But, I mean, that's really like anything. I get ideas about what to embroider from friends, I try new foods based on the descriptions I hear or read, I get ideas about museums I might like to visit by listening to other peoples experiences. Why should sex be any different?

 

[00Syd]

She didn't ask for people's stories, though. She asked what dude could do to her. That's a good bit different.

Also, there are a zillion threads on humiliation here. Search function and all that.

But if she had asked for stories, wouldn't we just accuse her of looking for easy wank material?

 

[CutieMouse]

Idea threads are difficult things to ask, and answer.

Offer links to previous discussions, and one is stifling conversation, or discouraging new discussion.

Say "It kinda depends on the people involved..." and one isn't being very helpful, and everyone goes "Well duh! Unhelpful bastards!"

Ask for personal stories, and the whole wank material thing gets tossed about...

Suggest specific ideas, and there's no telling if it's anywhere near where/what the individuals involved are looking for... (see point # 2)

Personally, I suspect the number of less than friendly responses is directly proportional to the investment any [generic] OP in question has made to the forum.


Meh...

 

[BiBunny]

But if she had asked for stories, wouldn't we just accuse her of looking for easy wank material?

It's all in how it's worded. I've asked questions like that (and seen others ask them) and not had anyone say anything about wank material. But, the fact remains, there's still a search function here, where one could see similar stories if one wanted to take the time to do it.

 

[ecstaticsub]

It's all in how it's worded. I've asked questions like that (and seen others ask them) and not had anyone say anything about wank material. But, the fact remains, there's still a search function here, where one could see similar stories if one wanted to take the time to do it.

Right, and if someone bumps an old thread that they searched for to get fresh ideas they get harrassed for bumping old threads.

Does it really hurt anyone to give a thread starter the benefit of the doubt and either give a reasonable response or just skip the thread?

 

[graceanne]

... just skip the thread?

Which is what i do. But someone made a comment about how we'd never allow a male sub to ask questions like this, and it's bull. A good majority of us get bitchy over/ignore ALL threads like this, and it has NOTHING to do with the gender/orientation of the person asking, and everything to do with been there done that.

And as both bunny and cm said,

Personally, I suspect the number of less than friendly responses is directly proportional to the investment any [generic] OP in question has made to the forum.

It's all in how it's worded. I've asked questions like that (and seen others ask them) and not had anyone say anything about wank material. But, the fact remains, there's still a search function here, where one could see similar stories if one wanted to take the time to do it.

we're a lot more likely to not be bitchy about/ignore these questions when it's a regular, because we KNOW that they aren't un-consensually involving us in their fantasies.

AND if there is a problem with all male subs on this forum, it's because quite often they start their threads looking for wanking fodder and that annoys us. Me, I'm an ignorer. If it's a troll, i have my fun, but otherwise, I might read but i don't post. Others are louder about their irritation.

 

[Homburg]

Actually, one reason I haven't post much lately, is because it often seems that what I view [and intend] as common sense advice, is viewed as rude/pissy/not inclusive enough/snobby. I'd rather try to keep my thoughts to myself, than offend.

I happen to love humiliation play, but [for me] it has to be fine tuned [to me]. For example, there currently exists two iPhone videos of yours truly giving really really great head, and masturbating. Some women wouldn't be phased at all, but when it was all said and done and those clips were saved, I wanted to sink through the floor from embarrassment. It's been a month or two, and the prude in me still cringes, knowing those clips are on his iPhone and all he has to do is tap an icon to watch them - regardless of where he is or what he's doing. I trust him not to share them, I am confident he won't... but he could. And the could is what hits the humiliation sweet spot [for me].

This is why I said it was it was a specific thing, and based on knowing your bottom. I can think of a half-dozen women that I've played with that would find "Dirty. Little. Whore." to be passe. Yet I know a few for whom that is shiver-inducing.

I just feel like the best humiliation is so specific to that bottom that telling the story would be almost immaterial. Just no point, really. If it is not the thing that knocks her flat, then it isn't really a good story, and if it is the same-old usual, generic stuff, it probably didn't knock her flat.

--

Actually, though, was Homburg really being all that cranky? He was simply reiterating what several other "oldies" (vs newbies) said... rather than list specific scenes, he said figure out what makes you tick and go from there.

I'm a wee bit surprised by this, and think there's some thread drift going on here in the vein of a game of Telephone. No one (that I saw anyway) actually said for the OP to piss off. Everyone was nice, or, at worst, neutral. My comment was to express surprise that it wasn't happening. How this turned into me being cranky or people saying to piss off, I dunno.

Me? I'm interested in the meta-dialogue here. Given that I'm pretty specific about humiliation, I tend to not find other people's humiliation stories all that titillating. The discussion that interested me was to muse about the response to these threads and wonder why this one was different. I think adakgirl had a good point when she said the OP was mot a male submissive. They tend to be seen much more as wankers in search of inspiration.

As I said, this thread was really remarkably nice in comparison to most of its' ilk.