Humiliation.

[Freya]

This is one thing that I can see having limits with. Some days I feel so strong inside, but others I feel so fragile. Even on my strong days, I have this constant bubble of guilt and personal humiliation deep within. So, I don't see humiliation as a healthy thing for me or my psyche. But maybe it depends on the level - or the day? Is it acceptable for things like that to vary - maybe on a pretty constant basis? Is it possible for a Dom who enjoys humilation to do so without damaging an already shaky self image of a sub? Or if a sub is that shaky, should this be something she avoids completely?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

You know something? I have absolutely no idea! I'm a completely 'vanilla' guy who just popped in on a lark, but...I'm thinking that a sensitive dom is going to push your limits without going so far as to destroy your psyche. Maybe you could go light on the humiliation when you need to, and build up your tolerance over time? Trying to be helpful, I'll back away slowly and watch for flying bottles...

 

[A Desert Rose]

Humiliation is in the eye of the beholder, Freya. That which I find erotic may very well be humiliating to others.

Your partner (Dom) will know your limits and how far and when to push them and when not to. Some subs don't want their limits pushed, some like me... do.

As long as you two are communicating and both understand the boundries, your Dom will know when the time is right and when it is wrong for you. In order for you to be the submissive He wants and you want to be, He will respect your feelings. And He will respect that they are not the same every day.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You know something? I have absolutely no idea! I'm a completely 'vanilla' guy who just popped in on a lark, but...I'm thinking that a sensitive dom is going to push your limits without going so far as to destroy your psyche. Maybe you could go light on the humiliation when you need to, and build up your tolerance over time? Trying to be helpful, I'll back away slowly and watch for flying bottles...

Pretty good advice for someone on a lark. ~smile~

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Well, I'm not at all experience in the more esoteric lifestyles, but i do know people pretty well. My idea of a good time might be different than yours(or might not, under the right circumstances!), but I know that whatever it is that we do to feel fulfilled, should leave us feeling fulfilled! Whatever you and your partner do, if it isn't leaving you with a good feeling at the end, then you are doing the wrong thing, or you are going about it the wrong way. just my 2 cents.

 

[sunfalcon]

This is one thing that I can see having limits with. Some days I feel so strong inside, but others I feel so fragile. Even on my strong days, I have this constant bubble of guilt and personal humiliation deep within. So, I don't see humiliation as a healthy thing for me or my psyche. But maybe it depends on the level - or the day? Is it acceptable for things like that to vary - maybe on a pretty constant basis? Is it possible for a Dom who enjoys humilation to do so without damaging an already shaky self image of a sub? Or if a sub is that shaky, should this be something she avoids completely?

I'd like to comment on this if I might.

First, humiliation is like any portion of the BDSM spectrum of activities. You can stand only varying amounts and degrees of it depending on you...(which includes how you feel at the moment, your urges, you day's experiences, etc. etc. etc.). A person who likes humiliation may one day want severe humiliation but on another day, they may want little or not have that urge to fill that need at all.

It is true that a Domme/Dom will know your limits...to a certain extent. A good Domme/Dom will talk to you BEFORE scenes which include humiliation. They will get a good feel for how your day is gone and what your frame of mind is before implementing/exposing you to humiliation.

Humiliation has many forms too. Some people are simply very mildly humiliated by being "inspected" while naked, or perhaps they aren't humiliated until at a higher degree. There are differing levels. Perhaps mild humiliation could be masturbating in front of a Domme/Dom, perhaps it is some other activity. For others, those activities may not be humiliating...perhaps for them it is having to wear a collar in public, having bondage underneath the clothes in public, etc.

If you are shaky with it, what I would do is define your limits in a concrete manner. Write them down with your Dom. Make sure to rate the activites/limits from good to bad. Make sure you communicate when you want to be humiliated and when. Make sure you communicate your limits immediately before performing that humiliating activity, etc. Make sure you have a safe word if your needs and desires change mid-stream! If you are unable to back out or come back down, then it could be counter-productive.

Ted

 

[Justina123]

Humiliation vs. Humility/humbling

I wonder if anyone else wishes there were more of a delineation between the use of the words "humiliation" and "humility." For me, humiliation would involve activities designed to make someone feel less valuable or worthy. Humility, on the other hand, is to me a trait much to be desired and worked at. (Being not only a submissive, but a Christian, humility is a very "to be desired" trait in the Bible...)

I guess this is all a very personal thing. For instance, for me, the "inspection" Ted mentions in his post is humbling and erotic.... but moves into unwanted humiliation if accompanied with put downs about my body. Same with masturbating in front of someone- humbling as heck and makes me turn all sorts of shades of red, but erotic.... unless combined with negative comments on my performance, then it's humiliating and I hate it. Crawling is humbling and puts me into submissive headspace...unless I am verbally told I am a worthless dog at the same time, then it is humiliating and you can bet I won't be back for more. Wearing a collar is neither humbling or humiliating- it makes me glow all over as I know it is a d/s equivalent to wearing a "going steady" (or more) ring.

I personally have a hard time understanding how anyone can want or enjoy being put down or degraded, but find acts which help me feel humble and therefore submissive to be quite erotic.

my two cents-
justina

 

[sunfalcon]

Re: Humiliation vs. Humility/humbling

I wonder if anyone else wishes there were more of a delineation between the use of the words "humiliation" and "humility." For me, humiliation would involve activities designed to make someone feel less valuable or worthy. Humility, on the other hand, is to me a trait much to be desired and worked at. (Being not only a submissive, but a Christian, humility is a very "to be desired" trait in the Bible...)

Justina, you make a very very good point! I never thought of it that way myself. "Personally speaking" I don't have a desire to being put down and degraded. That form of humiliation I will walk away from. If that's something someone likes, well, whatever floats your boat I guess. ;-)

You make a very good point. Thanks, I never thought of it in that manner.

Ted

 

[Pure]

Hi Freya 2,

you said,


Humiliation.
This is one thing that I can see having limits with. Some days I feel so strong inside, but others I feel so fragile. Even on my strong days, I have this constant bubble of guilt and personal humiliation deep within. So, I don't see humiliation as a healthy thing for me or my psyche. But maybe it depends on the level - or the day? Is it acceptable for things like that to vary - maybe on a pretty constant basis? Is it possible for a Dom who enjoys humilation to do so without damaging an already shaky self image of a sub? Or if a sub is that shaky, should this be something she avoids completely?

=======

What you don't say here is whether humiliation in any form is attractive to you, or erotic for you?? Your posting appears to treat it simply as something a dom/me might want. Yet they should be no _necessary_ item for a submission scene to occur: for instance if a sub simply does not want any 'knife play'/cutting, she should say it, and any half-clever domme will find other erotic ways to inflict pain.

Justine 123 mentioned a number of varieties of humiliation and you might consider which, if any have any fascination for you.

Your comment about 'self image' raises a lot of complicated questions, but there are various entities that everyone has, e.g., sense of sense, self-concept. The point of an erotic humiliation is NOT to induce (or further) self hatred. The 'sense of self' may well be strengthened, IF that form of play is agreed to and appropriate: For example, after being nude, exposed, and embarrassed one might realize and learn that certain internal things have remained; removing clothing or even receiving comments (of a given type) does not cause catastrophe or impact on 'sense of self.'

Lots to think about. These are just some thoughts from one who's done a fair number of H. scenes, with varying ingredients:
for instance, direct insults. They don't 'do it' for me at all, and have been dropped. The mistress, of course, does not find insulting to be intrinsically that interesting, in itself.

 

[sunfalcon]

Hi Freya 2,

sense of sense, self-concept. The point of an erotic humiliation is NOT to induce (or further) self hatred. The 'sense of self' may well be strengthened, IF that form of play is agreed to and appropriate: For example, after being nude, exposed, and embarrassed one might realize that certain internal things have remained; removing clothing or even receiving comments (of a given type) it is learned does not cause catastrophe or impact on 'sense of self.'

Lots to think about. Just are just some thoughts from one who's done a fair number of H. scenes, with varying ingredients:
for instance, direct insults. They don't 'do it' for me at all.

Pure, yes, you are correct. And, thanks for pointing out something. Erotic humiliation is much different than plain ol' humiliation. Some may like plain old humiliation, I'm not one. Erotic humiliation, I do, but depends on what it is and what my limits are. Being asked to masturbate in front of a Domme, being "inspected" are two examples of things I've done, but find them a form of "erotic" humiliation which I don't object to.

Pure, I think that's a good point that further describes this. Erotic humiliation is probably what most people participate in. I had a friend in California who once had a sub (she is still a friend, but an "X" Domme who I had experience with) who liked to be treated as an ashtray and forced to lick shoes in public. That's not for me. ;-) Some people do like that stuff, but not me.

I guess my whole point is that there are varying degrees on a huge scale....everyone differs and your own desires may change day to day.

Ted

 

[zipman]

Pure, yes, you are correct. And, thanks for pointing out something. Erotic humiliation is much different than plain ol' humiliation. Some may like plain old humiliation, I'm not one. Erotic humiliation, I do, but depends on what it is and what my limits are. Being asked to masturbate in front of a Domme, being "inspected" are two examples of things I've done, but find them a form of "erotic" humiliation which I don't object to.

Pure, I think that's a good point that further describes this. Erotic humiliation is probably what most people participate in. I had a friend in California who once had a sub (she is still a friend, but an "X" Domme who I had experience with) who liked to be treated as an ashtray and forced to lick shoes in public. That's not for me. ;-) Some people do like that stuff, but not me.

I guess my whole point is that there are varying degrees on a huge scale....everyone differs and your own desires may change day to day.

Ted

Welcome to the forum sunfalcon!

I think that like most BDSM activities, there is a continuum or range of humiliation that should be discussed. I have known subs that loved having their ass beaten until it was bright red and others that couldn't handle more than 15 smacks to each cheek. I think the same holds true (to a degree) with Humiliation. Of course, comparing spanking to humiliation is like comparing apples to oranges. The difference is it's a quality versus quantity thing. With humiliation, it's usually the type of humiliation as opposed to the frequency of it.

I have not indulged in humiliation play much, asides from some mild stuff, but I did have one sub who really got off on it.

Be well

Zip

 

[Freya]

Thank you guys. I love this forum.

I guess, to me, undressing or being inspected wouldn't be an issue, for the most part. Obviously I'm not shy about my body, and don't mind showing it. Certain comments, however, seem to trigger an instant drop in my self-image. The same goes for something like masturbating in front of someone - I'd find that quite erotic, but if coupled with demeaning comments I think I'd have a hard time.

I think it's another thing I'll have to discover my own level of comfortableness with.

Can you guys give examples that you're aware of for things which might be included in humilation play?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Can you guys give examples that you're aware of for things which might be included in humilation play?

The ultimate for me has been being told to bark when I was cumming. I just could not do it and He knew how it made me feel. He would push that every chance He got and God I hated it. (Still do.)

 

[NemoAlia]

I thought that I wouldn't have much to offer to this thread, since so many other people gave such good advice already, but since you're asking for examples, here's something I can add:

I find humiliation to be an almost-never-appealing experience to me. I'm still building a self-concept, and having someone else deliberately try to tear it down is something I would never choose. However, one kind of humiliation that I feel goes beyond inspection or performance masturbation without hurtling past my limits is when my lover demeans my actions rather than me. For example, if I'm doing homework at my computer and he walks in and tells me I shouldn't be wasting my time with that trash, that I should never be thinking of anything else but his cock, I'll instantly start perking up. If he follows it with an abrupt tug of my hair, pulling me away from my task while he keeps up the verbal reminders of what my focus should be... well, anyway, it's pretty exciting.

I'm not sure whether this counts as humiliation exactly, but I see how it could become more humiliating as scenes of penance or whatever come into play.

 

[lark sparrow]

I really like humiliation from my Domme, although I also tend to look at it as being humbled; humility, even good-natured, but naughty teasing that is embarrassing, or pushes me emotionally and physically into deeper submission. And I agree that some days I crave more and others I do not. Though, even the times I am feeling more vulnerable emotionally and less inclined to want humiliation, I usually find that it reinforces our bond - that I am Hers, that She loves and wants me, even those parts that I hide from most, and that submitting, being vulnerable and exposed to Her, is a priority. And, also importantly, that She uses it for our mutual pleasure and growth, depth, of our relationship. I love that I can trust Her to take me to those very surrendered states.

There have been a couple of times where I was feeling more insecure because of humiliation play, but usually it makes me feel more secure. If it doesn't I simply ask if we can take a break or She reads that the humiliation is not having the desired effect and She backs off and moves on to something else - but it is actually very rare, even when I think I am not up for it. Sometimes I have simply put a defensive wall up that has no need to be there and it feels wonderful (though scary) to have it crumble.

It is also never personally negative or attacking. Ours tends to include lots of naughty "derogatory" names that actually feel more like terms of endearment to me, crawling, lots of begging, "humiliating" or embarrassing positions, actions or statements, ones that push me for one reason or another, reminded how owned I am by Her, how much I am enjoying the humiliation, how naughty and surrendered I am, how much I want and need Her, that I would do anything for Her in that humbled state, etc.

They all reinforce my submission to Her (which is good), make me feel wanted (which is good), make me feel challenged (which is good), make me feel sexy (which is good), make me swoon and ache for Her personally (which is good), make me feel shaped by Her (which is good)... at the end I feel incredibly vunerable but incredibly safe, as well as more deeply bonded to Her. No walls and absolutely breathlessly in love with Her and the places She can take me safely, and upon coming back to earth I feel stronger, more myself and more deeply commited to Her and my submission to Her.

She also occasionally uses humiliation as punishment, but again it it never personally attacks me negatively. It usually involves doing things that I do not like, but are not hard limits. A couple of examples: I have mentioned getting soap in the mouth before - very unpleasant and definitely humiliating in that it is a very childish punishment and I actually submitted to it. Doing something publically that embarrasses me, which probably wouldn't embarrass me at all privately - the public aspect is the punishment and what pushes my "shame" buttons to a degree. But She never consciously uses something that is going to injure me emotionally long or short-term, though momentarily it is very uncomfortable, again I usually come out the other side with a positive lesson and corrected behavior - aligned with and more deeply bonded to Her - appreciative of Her control and influence.

Neither of us are perfect or all knowing, so when playing with more personally edgey humiliation occasionally it may sting - that may be good or bad, knowing your partner well and experimenting slowly or gently, understanding intention and being honest in reaction, and possibly even forgiving of small "mistakes" or sensitive spots triggered, and willingness to explore in unexpected directions can all be important.

I think everyone has trigger words - many you may want to avoid all together, you may eventually feel comfortable exploring others with your Dom in changing your perception of them.

 

[Pure]

Hi Freya2,

Thanks for clarifying. There is obviously something going on in your mind though you don't like unfavorable comments about your body. Let's say those are not made, in any of the following.

Also, as some other posters like LS have emphasized, the _manner_ in which something is done is an equally important consideration. Polite but firm directions are often of erotic quality, imo and experience.

Things you usually do behind closed doors:

To be done in front of dom/me and possibly others.

Taking a shower
Washing your pussy
Maturbating with anal penetration
Urinating

Things connoting childhood:

Having to "ask" (no words) to speak
Having to ask to go to the bathroom

Things connoting sluttiness:

Providing some sexual service to another--say a bj (with condom).

Being masturbated by a stranger, to orgasm, in front of ...

Having a woman make love to you in front of...

Licking the master's cum from a plate:

Having it transferred to your mouth by another woman who first receives it--e.g, by kissing.

Embarrassments:

Wearing no panties under skirt;

Doing that while dining or seated in a raised area or by stairs, your legs to be left apart and to provide a view;

Appearing in public or in front of others with obvious signs of just having sex (even though clothed).

Having to masturbate in a public place, say at a restaurant with tablecloths, without letting on.

Appearing in public while dressed in the manner of a hooker.

Objectification:

Serving as a chair or seat

A coat rack

Appearing as a servant in a French maid's outfit to guests.

Demeaning: taking your meals at a smaller low kiddie table.

Being a 'pony girl'; wearing a butt plug with a pony tail.

=====

Getting any ideas? Figure which things and types of things have appeal. Literotica stories of 'training' 'discipline' have number of such things; look at the writings of zenwstick, for example.

Best.

J.

 

[Freya]

I'm still mulling over exactly what it is in some cases that makes me feel less worthy - certain words in certain connotations seem to just nail me.

For example - being called someone's slut probably wouldn't bother me as they are calling me slut rather than "a slut", if that makes sense. But if you couple the slut word with demeaning tasks, it gets to me. Being told I'm a disappointment, or seeing reactions which make me feel as if I am, will knock me on my ass emotionally. Feeling objectified in certain ways would bother me - feeling like a piece of meat, or being made to feel less of a person.

I had an experience last night which really seemed to knock me down, and I'm trying to figure out exactly why, and what it was that did that to me. To be true to myself, and honest to another, I need to soul search a bit to find out what my triggers are. What made me do one thing, yet balk at another? How far will I go to please another, even if it means it takes a bit of me away? I think that's the part that scares me most of all. I lived many years of my life demeaning myself in the hopes that approval would be found from other people, but it chipped a little piece of self esteem away every time. I've finally started to tget some of that back, and I'm scared at how easily I might revert back to that person I used to be.

 

[lark sparrow]

More Humiliation Threads

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72340&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130798&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125058&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120025&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113680&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110582&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110050&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109132&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105373&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89143&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74071&highlight=humiliation

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76409&highlight=humiliation

 

[Ebonyfire]

Just my two cents worth

We have had several threads on this subject, and one of the things that I have noticed is that male and female submissives react to humiliation differently.

I only have male subs, so I think I can speak with some authority on the subject. Exceptions aside, (and there are always expections), men do not take humiliation as personally as women do. I am not a psychologist, so I do not know why nor do I care why.

the male subs I have and the ones I chat with on a daily basis seem to have reconciled their need for humiliation without any undue angst.

I do not have women subs, but I have read post after post here in this forum where the femsubs say that humiliation is a hard limit for them.

In my experience, malesubs seem to have a level of trust with their Domme in that they accept the discipline and punishment without internalizing it as denigration. They transfer their power to a level where they endure all kinds of degradation and humiliation, and they find catharsis in it.

If fact , one of my subs has told he has never been as happy as when he is degraded by me.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I'm still mulling over exactly what it is in some cases that makes me feel less worthy - certain words in certain connotations seem to just nail me.

For example - being called someone's slut probably wouldn't bother me as they are calling me slut rather than "a slut", if that makes sense. But if you couple the slut word with demeaning tasks, it gets to me. Being told I'm a disappointment, or seeing reactions which make me feel as if I am, will knock me on my ass emotionally. Feeling objectified in certain ways would bother me - feeling like a piece of meat, or being made to feel less of a person.

I had an experience last night which really seemed to knock me down, and I'm trying to figure out exactly why, and what it was that did that to me. To be true to myself, and honest to another, I need to soul search a bit to find out what my triggers are. What made me do one thing, yet balk at another? How far will I go to please another, even if it means it takes a bit of me away? I think that's the part that scares me most of all. I lived many years of my life demeaning myself in the hopes that approval would be found from other people, but it chipped a little piece of self esteem away every time. I've finally started to tget some of that back, and I'm scared at how easily I might revert back to that person I used to be.

I'm sitting here being really worried about you. I know something about self-esteem problems, and how it seems that any attention is better than none at all. I've put myself in some bad situations, that tore me apart, because i thought that anything would be better than what i was going through, and I was wrong. At some point, I had to learn to define myself as someone apart from other people. Only after I was able to do that was I able to enjoy the things that other people can bring to my life.

if you aren't good with yourself, you can never be good with other people.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I'm still mulling over exactly what it is in some cases that makes me feel less worthy - certain words in certain connotations seem to just nail me.

For example - being called someone's slut probably wouldn't bother me as they are calling me slut rather than "a slut", if that makes sense.

You are not alone in that thought. There have been several other female subs who have posted here who have a hard time with the word "slut."

Eb

 

[Freya]

You are not alone in that thought. There have been several other female subs who have posted here who have a hard time with the word "slut."

Eb

The dumbest thing about it is, that I really don't even have an issue with the word. My friends and I jokingly use it quite often, and even if a random stranger were to call me that, it wouldn't bother me a bit. That's why I'm trying to figure out why it did last night. I'm thinking part of it is the fact that online communication is so vague - you just can't really know what the person means exactly. But I'm just not sure.

I wonder why the big difference between male and female subs in this respect? Women are mor elikely to internalize things, and take them to heart, and let them fester, I think. Whereas men seem to have an easier time shrugging off certain things.


Johnny - don't worry about me. I'm learning what triggers these feelings in me, and I'm pretty sure I have enough self respect to put a halt to things before it gets to the point of doing damage to me. I'm able to look at what happened, and think it through. Why did it get to me so much, because essentially it was a non degrading activity - so any feelings of degradation were brought upon by myself. This is actually good for me, because where I used to bury things deep inside, now I'm taking them out and examining them.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Johnny - don't worry about me. I'm learning what triggers these feelings in me, and I'm pretty sure I have enough self respect to put a halt to things before it gets to the point of doing damage to me. I'm able to look at what happened, and think it through. Why did it get to me so much, because essentially it was a non degrading activity - so any feelings of degradation were brought upon by myself. This is actually good for me, because where I used to bury things deep inside, now I'm taking them out and examining them. [/B]

Glad to hear it! Figuring out who you are carries a bit of risk, but the rewards are worth it. Happy New year, BTW!

 

[Ebonyfire]

The dumbest thing about it is, that I really don't even have an issue with the word. My friends and I jokingly use it quite often, and even if a random stranger were to call me that, it wouldn't bother me a bit. That's why I'm trying to figure out why it did last night. I'm thinking part of it is the fact that online communication is so vague - you just can't really know what the person means exactly. But I'm just not sure.

I wonder why the big difference between male and female subs in this respect? Women are mor elikely to internalize things, and take them to heart, and let them fester, I think. Whereas men seem to have an easier time shrugging off certain things.


Johnny - don't worry about me. I'm learning what triggers these feelings in me, and I'm pretty sure I have enough self respect to put a halt to things before it gets to the point of doing damage to me. I'm able to look at what happened, and think it through. Why did it get to me so much, because essentially it was a non degrading activity - so any feelings of degradation were brought upon by myself. This is actually good for me, because where I used to bury things deep inside, now I'm taking them out and examining them.

At least you are aware that it did this, and that makes you ahead of the game.

 

[MissTaken]

Naive Question

Does anyone enjoy FEELING humiliated?

Feeling less than worthy?

Feeling like trash, dirt, or whatever?

Or do they just feel aroused?

Or when we discuss humiliations are we discussing acts that would make most people feel humiliated and lash out, but acts that only serve to arouse a sub?

There are things I enjoy that would appear to be humiliating to most, but to me, they are highly erotic and a wonderful addition to foreplay.