How your story sucked

[Never]

It's 7am and I've been up all night, what to do?
How about ripping a new one into tonight's download of porn?
Remember, this is about your story, not you
Remember. I am not a writer. I am not an editor. I am only a reader - my opinion is only that.

If that doesn't help then just keep in mind that I must be a pathetic individual to have nothing better to do with my time than tear other people's hard work to pieces.

With that in mind - Let's begin!

 

[Never]

A Flight to Hell & Heaven
by Starlight (Incest)

The story begins with a common third person perspective, we're introduced to the character whose name is Bernard and we learn that he is in 'torment' as he flies home.. okay, we're going smoothly along the beginning and then. Stop.
"In my country, our native animal, the kangaroo, is mostly not seen by day..."

What the fuck is this?
Who are you?
Why are you in my story?
This isn't Bernard, nope, it's the author who thinks I give a damn about the native wildlife of Australia. So he wastes a paragraph of my life in his explanation and we're only on the third paragraph as it is.

Okay, that's over, great. Now, let's continue with the - wait. What's this?
"There are many of us who, imprisoned by fears, bereavements or desires, flee to other geographical locations to escape. It is useless. The things we wish to flee from, to leave behind, run with us, for they are the contents of our own minds."

Jesus Christ, I mean, where the hell is Bernard? I came in this expecting an incest story, not 'Starlight pontificates on Shit I don't Care About.' Oh, there you are AGAIN.

"What is the cure? Well, as Hamlet questions, why should a man bear the burdens of life "When he himself might his quietus make with a bare bodkin?"
Ohh, you can quote Shakespeare, well that must mean that you're a clever person and I could care about what you write. Well I don't. And please, show me the play in which Shakespeare jumps on stage during the first act, pushes the players out of the way and begins his own personal monologue please.

I think I've made my point, of the first 8 paragraphs 4 are devoted to the author's ruminations, or pontifications or whatever you want to call them.

Do I keep on reading? Yes, because I want this to lead somewhere..
"Oh God," he thought, "why even in grief does she have to look so lovely? Why can she not look ugly and faded? What has to happen to mar her beauty?"
'Mar her beauty'? 'Why can she not look'?
I don't think this way, I don't think anyone in the 21st century does. If this were a period piece I might fall for it, however, as this is a modern story I can only conclude that the author is putting on airs and this is only confirmed when at the end of this paragraph he quotes 'the bard' once more.

As a reader, I'm not going any further. I don't care if it becomes wonderful on the next paragraph, there are plenty of stories on this site and I've wasted enough time on this one.

My points?

The story is about the characters, not what the author thinks about what's happening to the characters.
Don't put on airs, they're annoying and distract from the story.

 

[Guest]

Ouch!

Geez Never.....your tough!

I hope you never read one of mine late at night. I'd hate like hell to see how you ripped it apart! (LOL)


But if I ever do have one you hate like that one....I'd appreciate knowing why.

Good job............

To sleep.........perchance to dream - William Shakespear

 

[DoorNumberOne]

Never,
You apparently like to mock intellectualism (or attempts at intellectualism.) I understand that, because I used to be the same way. Well, truthfully, I still fight it constantly. Why do I fight it now? For several reasons--too many for me to go into now. (Not that you'd listen, but then that's part of the trait I'm talking about. ) A definite reason is because it shows the insecurities of the mocker in neon detail! (lol) You should never allow yourself the intellectual error of believing you are as smart as you think you are, because you are not. You will always come up short sooner or later. It's frightening, I know, but true. It seems to me that you are guilty of the very same thing you are accusing someone else of. See? You are trapped yourself in the circle. It's easy to critisize another and much more difficult to improve yourself.

 

[Mr_Neb]

Get a good night's sleep. You'll feel much better in the morning.

 

[tmuyo]

i find it funny...

when people try and sound intellectual and really are not. usually, cause they go thru some quote book, not even citing from the original work. the look for the names they recognize and think it will make their story an intellectual work of art . hell, the most i do in my srp threads is give a base description, except for my first thread i started and that i wrote a disorganized opening narration that a friend commented on being too true. but if i get intellectual feel free to flame me too. i don't write in the stories category cuz i like the challenge of writing in the srp category.

 

[p_p_man]

Well...

...I didn't read the story, I didn't have to after your post but I do agree with most of your points.

Too many writers forget they are not writing for themselves but for an audience and no matter how brilliant the phrase running through their heads is, if it doesn't fit, leave it out.

Use it another time, another place.

Actually I cringed when I read your comments because I used to write a bit like that. More for self gratification than for the reader. Wonderful descriptions and dialogue use to flow from my keyboard but they did nothing to push the story along or keep a tight grip on the storyline.

So, even in general terms your comments were accurate. Many is the time I've started reading something and then been jolted to a halt by just the things you mention. In extreme moments I've screamed in frustration and thrown the offending piece across the room!

But the doctor says I'm well on the way to recovery!

A note to Starlight Don't be offended by Never's remarks writing is always a learning process. (Notice how I slipped that little piece of self-gratification in there?) It wasn't necessary to say it's a learning process - you already know it is...

 

[p_p_man]

I'm back again!

I liked the way you didn't hold any punches.

If you get time can you do the same for this one?

It my attempt at erotic humour...


http://www.literotica.com/stories/s...ry.php?id=12243

Thanks...

 

[Bluetrain]

sweet!

never's brutally honest, cynical, and condemning remarks were some of the most hilarious comments I've ever read! I love it!

Would I love it as much if it were one of my stories being raosted? Of course! Criticism is criticism, not truth.

cheers,

b

 

[RisiaSkye]

Maybe it's just me...

but I'm wondering something. If you have nothing but negative things to say, and they're about a particular story, not general remarks on something you don't like, why not address it in anonymous feedback? I appreciate what you're saying, but it just seems kinda mean to publicly ridicule someone's efforts like this.

Is it just me?

 

[Skeptisaurus]

Further Observations....

When I was in high school one of my teachers decided to show us a great short movie. It was an adaptation of an even better short story, but the class tuned out for one reason. The teacher kept stopping the film to explain what was going on.

**********

Personally I agree with Never. I thought the Author's personal interjections brought the flow of the story to a grinding halt; a stop-start motion that made me mentally seasick. I couldn't finish reading either, and I really tried.

On the other hand, it wasn't the 'intellectualism' that put me off, I'm one of the wacky people who actually does speak and think in ways that are a bit 'off' - I'll not change that for anyone. The main problem here is not that there were opinions cited, but that they were overused and noncontributory to the story. Who cares about them if the character doesn't?

The bottom line is simple. If you want to talk about the plight of the Kangaroo or the futility of mankind, do it through the plot and the story. Don't just jump in out of nowhere with an off the wall comment and distract the reader's attention from what's going on. Most readers are smart enough to read between the lines and find your message. The reader's ability to use imagination is half the fun of reading, if not the only fun. Interjecting like a school teacher stopping a great movie to babble about it is annoying. It shuts down the reader's imagination, and when it's no longer fun to read he or she will move on to the next story.

Skep

PS: Never, if you've got the time and inclination, I wouldn't mind you tearing up one of mine as well...

 

[Paolo Labico]

Why you are an asshole as well as an insomniac...

This was completely uncalled for. Did you pay for this story? Did you lose anything tangible? It took you longer to rip it up than to read it.

I don't know Starlight, but he or she is an amateur. Many of us use this site to try new things and experiment with writing. After your scathing remarks, I hope this person will keep writing. There are ways to provide proper, constructive feedback. There was no need for such venom.

Why don't you tackle a story on the top-lists with your obvious editorail skill, or better yet, get off your lazy no-talent ass and show him how its done tough guy?

The rest of you should be ashamed for egging him on, you owe that author an apologie.

Paul

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

A definite reason is because it shows the insecurities of the mocker in neon detail!

That has to be the worst sentence I've ever read.

 

[Mickie]

How many writers out there would want to have Never crit your story like this? Me, for one. We put our work up for public display, and then worry about public criticism? This isn't grade school. It's the real world, and Never's remarks, while a bit acid, were on the mark. Author intrusion is a no-no, for all those amatuer writers out there. You're telling a story, not what you think of the story. Give the readers credit for being able to come up with their own ideas about the story. If you really must put your views in the text, then become a character and pontificate to your heart's content.

And, if you put your work out there for the world to talk about, don't get upset because a portion of that world condemns the work. It only leads to headaches.

Mickie

 

[Whispersecret]

While Never could have been a little gentler, her remarks were accurate, and I agreed with them.

Still, we have to remember that many of the people who post stories here are amateurs. They may have never written anything creative since "What I Did Last Summer." And that type of essay is loads easier to write than a fictional story with characters and a plot. (Remember--topic sentence, three-four supporting sentences, closing sentence?)

These amateurs may want nothing more than the thrill of seeing their writing on the web. Others of us are more ambitious and actually strive to improve or even yearn to be published in print. For those of us in the latter category, critiques such as Never's have great value, if we can manage to separate our selves from our writing. Having someone else give us their views on our work has no substitute. We can often get too close to our stories which can render us unable to objectively polish them. However, for those of us in the former category, this type of commentary can be devastating.

 

[SexySecretary]

My Opinion

Why not be like this? There's no need to rip up a story because you didn't like it. I've never ripped up anyone's because I didn't like it. Just don't read that author or something.

We are mostly amateurs who write here. If we were pros, we'd have books published. Who agrees with me? I have two stories and an in progress novella on here, and they're amateur works.

 

[Mickie]

Sexy Secretary,

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, and not to read those author's who's works you dislike, but I'd like to disagree on a point or two.

First, a writer can always improve, even those so-called professionals. If no one points out their flaws, then how does anyone know what to work on?

Second, if you don't read an author you dislike, then you're missing out on learning something. Personally, I think anyone who aspires to writing should read anything they can get their hands on, good, bad, and indifferent. The critiquing process can hone your own skills as you learn. Do some crits of your own and read what others have to say in their critiques.

I must say that Never was quite acidic in that little crit, but the points were valid. (Most of them, anyway.) If you overlook the tone of the crit, then it was informative. A writer who puts their work up for public consumption, whether an amatuer or not, must expect some people to absolutely hate their work and not let it diminish the fact that other people have fallen in love with it.

I've never found that the candy-covered crits offer me any more than those in the category of Never's. In fact, I would rather hear honest opinions, even if those opinions are that my work is bullshit. I want to know what to work on, not 'good, keep going'. Keep going on what? If no one tells me what's wrong, how the hell am I suppose to know how to keep going?

The trouble with most amatuer writers is that they don't want to take writing out of the hobby phase. Good enough is good enough to them, even though they say they want to learn and get better. All they really want to hear is sugar coated praise. It affects those of us who want the naked, unvarnished truth, because most critiquers are afraid to say the truth for fear of hurting some author's feelings.

Granted, there are more politic ways to say the truth, and still get the point across, but that doesn't change the value of the truth.

But, now I'm getting redundant. All I really wanted to say was that any critique at all, if it's honest, is worth getting. Even those that seem to attack the author.

Mickie

 

[L.A. Wicker]

TO HARD

Yes i to think he was a bit, hard, mean, shit head,
we are just trying to do our best, that's all anybody can do. but, he is 'PERFECT' NOT..................

 

[Laurel]

Never's a "she".

 

[flawed_ethics]

"Never's a she..."

... as I so casually learned in another post, and as Laurel just pointed out. (you learn something new every day, huh? )

Anyway, I agree with both SexySecretary and Mickie. But to err on the side of caution, wouldn't it be wiser to simply e-mail the author in question of their flawed work? It would open the possibility of e-mail discussion and tips for improvement, refinement, etc... It does serve as a nice heads up to young and aspiring writers out there that people will pummel one's work as they see fit. Still, I think it may be a more effective measure to e-mail rather than rant a the boards. Granted - it is the Authors Hangout, but there is a chance its against their better judgement to show up here.

Oh well, just my two cents.

By the way, Never: Your early disclaimer is duely noted. Its hardly an criticism against you - just that the thread seems to have shifted direction.

 

[Mickie]

How many people actually went over to read the story as a direct result of Never's criticism of it? A lot, I'll bet. Any publicity is better than none.

Treading a middle road, saying that it's better to email negative critiques for private consideration, is a bit of a cop out, in my opinion. If you can't stand to be put down in public, then stay away from becoming public. If you want everything sugar coated, then go ask your spouse or teacher to read and comment on your writing. The world is a harsh place, and I've had editors give me feedback that would demoralize any honest writer. (In fact, Never's criticisms sounded far too familiar.)

Yes, I get that sinking feeling in my stomach when my stories are attacked. Yes, it's similar to feeling like a kicked child. I get over it sooner or later, climb back up on the horse, and do my best to learn from the attack. The best critique I've ever had called me everything but late for dinner. It was acidic, insulting, and derogative. It was also over the phone and personally attacking. However, it was also the most honest, thought-provoking crit I've ever gotten. As soon as I mopped up my ego, I cleaned up some of the writing, with positive results in publishing.

Sometimes, the only way anyone is going to tell you the truth is to find someone who doesn't give a damn if they hurt your feelings.

Mickie

 

[Guest]

(Mickie, baby, you and I are in tune with each other on the writing stuff.)

Critical feedback can cause one of two reactions. The first is, "I don't care. I'm still going to write what I want, how I want." The people who have this reaction will be the ones who have no interest in becoming writers. They're just writing as a lark. That's fine. But, as Mickie mentioned, if you post it in a public forum, you must be prepared for the public to react.

The second reaction is, "That person has a point. I'm going to write differently now." The people who have this reaction are WRITERS. These people know that writing is hard fucking work. You can't create a story that's good without a lot of effort. It's not an involuntary reflex, like puking. It's an art, and a mostly solitary one at that.

Writing well takes an ability to wield the language, a certain amount of talent, and persistence. (I would even argue it requires a love of reading as well, but that's just a personal theory.) Writing well also requires a desire, or even a craving, to improve.

Now, in order to improve, you must examine what you've written and try and figure out how to make it better. All writers do this; it's called REVISION, and it's CRITICAL. No one--not Stephen King, not John Grisham, not Nora Roberts, not Jane Fucking Austen--ever wrote a book without revising it. However, we're not all able to see the flaws in our own writing, at least, not at first. Often the flaws are camoflaged to us, but they're clear as glass to someone else. It's like those pictures where you look and see a vase, and someone comes along and says, "No, that's two faces in profile," and then suddenly you can see the faces too.

My point is that accepting criticism is part of being a writer. It's arguably the hardest part. But if you want to improve as a writer (and I realize not all of us are that heavily INTO this), you have to be able to step back and examine criticism as objectively as you possibly can.

Mickie was right in that you can't get good criticism unless the critic is willing to be completely honest. When people ask me to critique their stories, I've always striven to do so as gently, but as directly and specifically as possible. And even if I couch it in the most neutral terms I can, I know that what I say will most likely prick that writer's ego. I know, because that's what happens to me. However, I also know that if I don't point out what I see, there's no point in the whole exercise.

To sum up--someone who dabbles in writing will be content to accept only the positive feedback and will steadfastly reject anything else. A Writer, with a capital W, will want both positive and negative, because I believe that only by accepting the former and analyzing the latter can a person hope to perfect this craft.

Each Literotica contributor needs to decide which of these he is, a dabbler or a Writer. The difference between them is not whether they should be criticized, but how they will deal with the criticism.

 

[Whispersecret]

Er, that post was mine.

 

[SexySecretary]

Story Here?

Never, my question to you is: Do YOU have a story here? If you do, maybe some of us could rip it up so you can see how we feel. If you don't, then you don't need to be posting on the author's hangout anyway. And if you have a problem with what I'm saying, you can email me and tell me. Not one thing you can say can bother me.

 

[Laurel]

Originally posted by Whisper
Each Literotica contributor needs to decide which of these he is, a dabbler or a Writer. The difference between them is not whether they should be criticized, but how they will deal with the criticism.

Amen, sister....