How/when to back off

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by SweetDommes
In this case, if I read it correctly, Marquis decided to shelve the idea for the moment after discussing things with her. If that is what he thought was best, then it isn't our place to say that he made the wrong decision, as we cannot see the interactions between him and her -Miss Karen

LOL, but what about the fact that he ended his post with a question about the subject I and everybody else has been giving him advice on? That question was: "How do you go about giving a sub the room they sometimes need, without giving them the impression that you're going soft?" Nobody's criticizing Marquis, we're simply trying to answer the question he asked. Are you saying that it isn't "our" (ahem!) place to answer questions if somebody asks one and we have a response? Clarify this, if you would, Karen.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by Netzach
I'm with rosco's "shelve the idea and revisit when she has almost forgotten about it" take on it, rather than stepping right back into the scene-- I'd intepret the latter as insecure, somehow.

Yeah, and I'd intepret the former as cowardly or sneaky or hostile, probably all three, because it's so very indirect it seems like gameplaying. Different strokes do work best for different folks, though.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by Marquis

I will wait until she is ready, besides revenge is a dish best served cold. Think: expensive restaurant.

That is a great idea, especially given the history of this.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by rosco rathbone

And of course TB is well worth listening to, since she Knows Everything,

First that big-nosed harelquin and now _you_? What is it with people around here? Is there some special rule that say that I and only I am not supposed to voice an o-pinion about anything in this forum? Or are you just.... nevermind. :/

 

[Marquis]

Pay no attention to the Evil Clown.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by Marquis
Pay no attention to the Evil Clown.

Uh, which one?

 

[Desdemona]

Ok, now it's time for me $.02 ...

While this has worked for you, this kind of thing does not work for everyone. We pushed sylvan when he was here, he pushed back, we worked on the reasons he pushed back, but we did back off ... a little ... because breaking him is not what we are wanting to do, and doing that would have broken him. We still pushed, but we slowed down. Perhaps that was, in the long run, a mistake, but again, breaking him is not what we were looking to do, and even knowing that now he is balking at moving, I would not change anything that we did with him one single bit.

It is an assessment of each submissive that must be made by each dominant, as well as an assessment of the relationship existing between them. In this case, if I read it correctly, Marquis decided to shelve the idea for the moment after discussing things with her. If that is what he thought was best, then it isn't our place to say that he made the wrong decision, as we cannot see the interactions between him and her - and for the record, I think that he made the right decision ... as long as he does take the scene back of the shelf in a little while (if, assuming, that he still has a relationship with this particular sub). And another thought that occured to me as I review this - asserting control over the sub again immediately after the talk doesn't have to be jumping right back into the same scene. For us with sylvan, it was to give him new orders - ones that we knew that he might not be happy about, but that he would do.

We know that what works for us doesn't work for everyone - hell, what works for ghosst doesn't work for sylvan ... just like anything else in this lifestyle, there is no one single, simple answer. For ghosst, talking about it and going right back in would most likely work, for sylvan, it most likely wouldn't wouldn't ... it also depends on what the scene involves as to whether or not each approach would work - I can imagine a few that rushing back in wouldn't work for ghosst, and maybe one or two that rushing back in would work for sylvan. It all depends - on what the scene is, on the mental/emotional state of the sub, and on what they state the issues are, as well as 100s of other little things that could also be occuring at the time.

Miss Karen

I didn't mean to imply that it should be done every time. Obviously my post wasn't as clear as it needed to be. You 're right, you have to base decisions on knowledge of the sub in question and rather than break someone, back off. I only meant that sometimes, it really is a good option to go right back after the talk.

 

[SweetDommes]

LOL, but what about the fact that he ended his post with a question about the subject I and everybody else has been giving him advice on? That question was: "How do you go about giving a sub the room they sometimes need, without giving them the impression that you're going soft?" Nobody's criticizing Marquis, we're simply trying to answer the question he asked. Are you saying that it isn't "our" (ahem!) place to answer questions if somebody asks one and we have a response? Clarify this, if you would, Karen.

It isn't our place to say that he made the wrong decision - and I kind of got the impression that you (and one or two others) felt that he had made the wrong decision by not pressing the silverware issue with her. There is a difference between giving suggestions or giving previous experiences, and judging someone by what they have chosen to do.

 

[SweetDommes]

I didn't mean to imply that it should be done every time. Obviously my post wasn't as clear as it needed to be. You 're right, you have to base decisions on knowledge of the sub in question and rather than break someone, back off. I only meant that sometimes, it really is a good option to go right back after the talk.

Ok, thank you for clarifying - I really didn't intend to single you out, you just had two of the points that I wanted to address right together LOL

 

[Desdemona]

Ok, thank you for clarifying - I really didn't intend to single you out, you just had two of the points that I wanted to address right together LOL

It's cool.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by SweetDommes
It isn't our place to say that he made the wrong decision - and I kind of got the impression that you (and one or two others) felt that he had made the wrong decision by not pressing the silverware issue with her. There is a difference between giving suggestions or giving previous experiences, and judging someone by what they have chosen to do.

Well, you happen to be wrong in this case. I was simply proposing some advice in response to Marquis's question. Just like everyone else was doing in this thread. Don't you think, however, that if I _were_ actually to have been judgemental that it would have been Marquis's job to correct me or to say something to me about it? Is it really your place to pre-empt him in this and assume his role? I think that this actually shows a significantly higer amount of "disrespect" for Marquis and his judgement than you accuse me of.

Sometimes people decide that others are "judging someone" simply because they disagree with the advice being given. If it's advice you agree with, then it's just advice; but if you don't like what someone's saying, then it suddenly becomes judgemental or one true wayism or some other attack on style rather than substance. Do you think this might be the case in regards to your comments to me?

 

[SweetDommes]

You were stating your thought, I was stating mine - I obviously misinterpreted yours, and I will not fight with you over this, especially not in public.

I did not mean any disrespect to him, I hope that he didn't sense any, and I don't think that he did, or I'm sure he would have told me.

As for the whole "assuming judging for not agreeing" - it was the method in which you stated your thoughts, as it came across (to me, at least) as "you have to do it this way or it's wrong." I did not say that your method was wrong, simply that it doesn't work for all people in all situations. I went on at length about it, so I really don't feel the need to go back and "clarify" that.

 

[SweetDommes]

stupid double post *grumble*

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by SweetDommes
You were stating your thought, I was stating mine - I obviously misinterpreted yours, and I will not fight with you over this, especially not in public.

I did not mean any disrespect to him, I hope that he didn't sense any, and I don't think that he did, or I'm sure he would have told me.

As for the whole "assuming judging for not agreeing" - it was the method in which you stated your thoughts, as it came across (to me, at least) as "you have to do it this way or it's wrong." I did not say that your method was wrong, simply that it doesn't work for all people in all situations. I went on at length about it, so I really don't feel the need to go back and "clarify" that.

"I will not fight with you over this, especially not in public." Well, since it seems to me that you were the one to bring the issue up in the first place and accuse me, I'd say your actions contradict that fine sentiment. Back where I come from, what you did is called "picking a fight." But call it what you wish, shrug.

I was very careful in my post to state that my suggestion was something I'd seen to work well, not "The One Way To Do Things." I'd be interested, if you'd care to continue this in a non-combatitive manner, if you'd quote to me the specific sentences in my message that you thought conveyed a "you have to do it this way or it's wrong" attitude. Where do I actually say that, or, if I don't say that, where do I even imply it? Because you aren't the only one who has claimed I copped this attitude in this thread (Rosco was the other one, although I can never tell when he's serious or not in public) I am assuming their might be some weight behind your words. But if you want me to take them seriously, you need to provide me with the proofs and clarification, not just empty accusations or vague "well it just feels that way to me" phrases. Anyone can feel any way toward anything. For example, I could "just feel" that you're a psycho and a murderer and bleat that feeling to the world, but that wouldn't make it accurate: it would be an empty accusation without proofs on my part. I am curious about what specific words you actually saw in my message that substantiate your claim about my attitude. I think it would help us both if you clarified this.

Thanks,
Taint

 

[sunfox]

Just to interject.. I think rosco was serious, and meant that TaintedB's posts were good. He just says it in that snide way, and it sounds insincere.

Okay, carry on mudslinging under a veneer of civility.

 

[SweetDommes]

For the future, assuming this was not an issue about silverware: a way to handle this sort of thing that I've seen work well is that after a sucessful talk (she is feeling good and back to her old submissive self again) you go right back to the activity that she balked at before. You don't wait for another day or even for a few hours to pass. You give her a loving kiss or hug (or however you show affection), walk her gently back to the table, and then very kindly but firmly have her do the thing that was bothering her before. Not waiting on this is important when establishing control over somebody, so that she learns the lesson that others in this thread have pointed out as being so important: that while you care for her a lot, she cannot manipulate you with her emotional upsets. Not that she was necessarily doing that this time, but it's something submissives pick up on quickly if you don't follow up kindness and a concern for their feelings with your original firm intent.

This paragraph right here is where I got the impression that you thought he made a mistake/was wrong about his decision. To me, this implies that you think he made a mistake by not showing her that "she cannot manipulate [him] with her emotional upsets" and that only your way will insure that he does show her that.

And now that I have pointed out to you where I got the impression, I wish to drop this conversation - I already said that I obviously misunderstood what you were saying - it's over for me, thank you.

 

[Marquis]

TB, you did not offend me, but I think you second-guessed me in your post a little bit. It's not a big deal to me at all, but since you asked, I think you may have put people off by questioning my premises rather than my conclusions. I find that unfiltered opinions are generally the most useful however, so I said nothing to avoid censoring you in the future.

In any case, as much as I love a good catfight, I respect all the posters in this thread and I'd rather not see you all disagree so vehemently over something stemming from me. I will post hot pictures if y'all behave.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Just to interject.. I think rosco was serious, and meant that TaintedB's posts were good. He just says it in that snide way, and it sounds insincere.

She oughtta know this by now. Sigh.

 

[Marquis]

She oughtta know this by now. Sigh.

All true pimps make compliments sound like insults, beee-otch.

 

[Marquis]

E.G. Damn bitch, that ass looking so good I might let YOU walk in front of ME.

 

[rosco rathbone]

All true pimps make compliments sound like insults, beee-otch.

Oh, er, I say. *clears throat" "How would you enjoy some of this, ah 'pimping', I believe they call it, yes? young lady?. Oh, I say!"

 

[snowy ciara]

Yea, verily and all that...

 

[Netzach]

How did we manage to get in a fight over what might or might not be done in this situation?

We'd all call it differently largely based on our own preferences and who we've been with. Ideally, I've been blessed with subs who will say "bust my nuts" if I'm not maintaining a tight enough rein -- bottoming from the Top? Maybe. Giving me a vowel, is more like it.

 

[Never]

Marquis:
"How do you go about giving a sub the room they sometimes need, without giving them the impression that you're going soft?"

Why does this matter?

You're either a dom or not. If a sub doesn't think you are then they're not for you. All relationships require flexibility but if your sub's view of what makes you a 'real' dom is more important than what your gut tells you then there's a problem.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by SweetDommes
This paragraph right here is where I got the impression that you thought he made a mistake/was wrong about his decision. To me, this implies that you think he made a mistake by not showing her that "she cannot manipulate [him] with her emotional upsets" and that only your way will insure that he does show her that.

And now that I have pointed out to you where I got the impression, I wish to drop this conversation - I already said that I obviously misunderstood what you were saying - it's over for me, thank you.

Ok, We can drop it if you want. Thanks for quoting the part that you thought was judgemental as that isn't something I could have seen on my own. I will be thinking on it, but I won't post a public response.