How To Write

[DesEsseintes]

Could you be convinced to post your list?

It's not my thread, and it may not be my place (but when has that ever stopped me before?) - still, in no particular order:

1) Le Carre - for beautiful judged, swift character descriptions. he can make you understand someone in depth merely by describing their coat.

2) Beckett - for all the reasons mentioned above.

3) Conrad - particularly Heart of Darkness and Nostromo. Astonishing power.

4) Nabokov - Lolita of course, but also the brilliant Pale Fire. The kind of prose that shimmers with perfection.

5) Calvino - everything he ever wrote is profoundly lyrical, tender, empathetic and extraordinarily imaginative. Try Cosmicomics or Invisible Cities, or the astonishing Castle of Crossed Destinies, complete with built in tarot cards.

6) Borges - for realising that one didn't have to write a novel when one could pretend it had already been written, and make references to it in a short story. Also, for his stupendous imagination and concision.

7) Robert MacFarlane - The Old Ways - beautiful writing about place, which becomes, as all great writing does, more about the place of the human heart in this world than anything else. Mesmerising. I could also mention Bruce Chatwin and the superb WG Sebald in this regard.

8) PG Wodehouse. No mention of English prose is complete without him. The funniest writer who ever lived, and a superb master of epithets and prose. Wodehouse fans, rather than conversing, tend to simply swap similes until one gives up. Glorious, life-affirming stuff.

9) Laurence Sterne - Tristram Shandy. Perhaps the first post-modernist, who more than two hundred and fifty years ago was doing stream of consciousness, little drawings, and even has two entirely black pages to indicate a death. Ludicrously ahead of its time.

10) Joyce - All the others, in having something to teach us about writing, can do so by inspiration - imagination, precision, etc. Joyce shows us the limits of what is possible. The novel cannot do more than it did in Finnegans Wake. Whatever else we do with the form, we cannot push it further than he has already pushed it. He delineated its boundaries more fearsomely than a mediaeval map covered with griffins and dragons. If nothing else, he teaches humility.

Anyway, that would be mine, for what it's worth. And the caveat, as always with these things, is that I'd probably come up with an almost entirely different list tomorrow...

 

[subdued_passion]

Wouldn't your 'how to write' list be dependent on what is it you were looking to write?

If I wanted to write a recipe book I couldn't follow Beckett's style (sound of sizzling and then the aroma is released while the audience imagines the dish).

So, I'm a being facetious but the point remains that there are different types of literature out there and you don't have a one shoe fits all model out there for a guide.



@ TxRad- excellent point; one I'm trying out for myself.



Someone please quote me since JBJ claims to have me on iggy.

 

[Aynmair]

Thank you. We share a number of favorites. Calvino writes gems, I can't get enough of Le Carre but have my favorites among his novels (Smiley's People, and yes, Call for the Dead), Conrad, Beckett, Nabokov, Wodehouse. I enjoyed Joyce's shorts but just cant't read his longer novels - too ADD.

Some short story writers I love include Flannery O'Connor, Grace Paley, and John Cheever - masters of spinning out characters and plots. And yes, Chatwin.

I enjoyed Axel Munthe's Story of San Michele but it doesn't fit with the others. Still, very interesting. Also Gore Vidal's Palimpsest.

Thanks for your list - gave me a few more writers to read. And it is in the spirit of the thread.

It's not my thread, and it may not be my place (but when has that ever stopped me before?) - still, in no particular order:

1) Le Carre - for beautiful judged, swift character descriptions. he can make you understand someone in depth merely by describing their coat.

2) Beckett - for all the reasons mentioned above.

3) Conrad - particularly Heart of Darkness and Nostromo. Astonishing power.

4) Nabokov - Lolita of course, but also the brilliant Pale Fire. The kind of prose that shimmers with perfection.

5) Calvino - everything he ever wrote is profoundly lyrical, tender, empathetic and extraordinarily imaginative. Try Cosmicomics or Invisible Cities, or the astonishing Castle of Crossed Destinies, complete with built in tarot cards.

6) Borges - for realising that one didn't have to write a novel when one could pretend it had already been written, and make references to it in a short story. Also, for his stupendous imagination and concision.

7) Robert MacFarlane - The Old Ways - beautiful writing about place, which becomes, as all great writing does, more about the place of the human heart in this world than anything else. Mesmerising. I could also mention Bruce Chatwin and the superb WG Sebald in this regard.

8) PG Wodehouse. No mention of English prose is complete without him. The funniest writer who ever lived, and a superb master of epithets and prose. Wodehouse fans, rather than conversing, tend to simply swap similes until one gives up. Glorious, life-affirming stuff.

9) Laurence Sterne - Tristram Shandy. Perhaps the first post-modernist, who more than two hundred and fifty years ago was doing stream of consciousness, little drawings, and even has two entirely black pages to indicate a death. Ludicrously ahead of its time.

10) Joyce - All the others, in having something to teach us about writing, can do so by inspiration - imagination, precision, etc. Joyce shows us the limits of what is possible. The novel cannot do more than it did in Finnegans Wake. Whatever else we do with the form, we cannot push it further than he has already pushed it. He delineated its boundaries more fearsomely than a mediaeval map covered with griffins and dragons. If nothing else, he teaches humility.

Anyway, that would be mine, for what it's worth. And the caveat, as always with these things, is that I'd probably come up with an almost entirely different list tomorrow...

 

[lovecraft68]

I've been told my strength is dialogue and painting a vivid picture. To both of those things I owe....

Marvel Comics from the 60's to 70's. Stan Lee in particular.

Not high brow like the rest of the lists, but worked for me.

Keep your Hemingway.

Make Mine Marvel!

In modern comics era I've been influenced by Alan Moore back from the time Watchmen was relevant. And V for Vendetta was all the rage.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.irememberjfk.com/mt/graphics/donmartin.jpg

I've been told my strength is dialogue and painting a vivid picture. To both of those things I owe....

Marvel Comics from the 60's to 70's. Stan Lee in particular.

Not high brow like the rest of the lists, but worked for me.

Keep your Hemingway.

Make Mine Marvel!

In modern comics era I've been influenced by Alan Moore back from the time Watchmen was relevant. And V for Vendetta was all the rage.

Don't take this the wrong way but your gift is a clumsy sorta way of getting at profound insights. Most of us never fall over the insights, and people like PILOT prance past them never the wiser. PILOT reminds me of those Don Martin people with hinged feet.

 

[lovecraft68]

Don't take this the wrong way but your gift is a clumsy sorta way of getting at profound insights. Most of us never fall over the insights, and people like PILOT prance past them never the wiser. PILOT reminds me of those Don Martin people with hinged feet.

Don Martin! He was classic. Sucks he went to Cracked magazine for awhile. I liked Al Jaffe as well especially the snappy answers to stupid questions.

I think you're right. I have no clue about how complex and serious writing is supposed to be so I just free wheel through things with no worries of "is that right? How would so and so do this? Does this work?" I just truck along whistling like the happy little writing fool I am.

People who are "hardcore" about it. Studying how to after how to and obsessing over the Chicago manual and taking seminars and classes....they are so stuck on what's right they can;t get out of their own way.

Creativity is the opposite of structure. You cannot fence in your muse with a hundred rules or plan down to the last word and expect something to flow well.

Even outlines they can be a good tool to not forget things and give you a skeleton of your story, but too many take it to far and then force their creativity into that pre defined box.

I read that some authors spend six month or more on their outline. Six months? We're six months into the year and I've published 12 e-books and over 220k. My last "full length" book was 137k done start to finish in three weeks.

or I could....sit and plat and plan.

Yes, there are basic rules we need to follow, grammar, tenses, etc...but man do some people over complicate things.

writers have a natural gift and yes it needs dome direction to help it along, but creativity is a raw power and by nature not conducive to the norm. Writers, artists, musicians, even actors, these people by nature are outside the box people and somehow all that talent is supposed to be forced inside a box some goof who thinks they know it all created.

 

[DesEsseintes]

If I wanted to write a recipe book I couldn't follow Beckett's style (sound of sizzling and then the aroma is released while the audience imagines the dish).

I love the idea of a Beckett cookbook.

 

[DesEsseintes]

Thank you. We share a number of favorites. Calvino writes gems, I can't get enough of Le Carre but have my favorites among his novels (Smiley's People, and yes, Call for the Dead), Conrad, Beckett, Nabokov, Wodehouse. I enjoyed Joyce's shorts but just cant't read his longer novels - too ADD.

Some short story writers I love include Flannery O'Connor, Grace Paley, and John Cheever - masters of spinning out characters and plots. And yes, Chatwin.

I enjoyed Axel Munthe's Story of San Michele but it doesn't fit with the others. Still, very interesting. Also Gore Vidal's Palimpsest.

Thanks for your list - gave me a few more writers to read. And it is in the spirit of the thread.

Thank you, too. I shall have to look into Axell Munthe and Palimpsest - thank you for the recommendations, however oblique.

 

[Aynmair]

Thank you, too. I shall have to look into Axell Munthe and Palimpsest - thank you for the recommendations, however oblique.

I wouldn't want to presume. In a used book store now...

 

[jomar]

...

I read that some authors spend six month or more on their outline. Six months? We're six months into the year and I've published 12 e-books and over 220k. My last "full length" book was 137k done start to finish in three weeks.

...

Cormac McCarthy, GRRM, others....

To each their own...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Don Martin! He was classic. Sucks he went to Cracked magazine for awhile. I liked Al Jaffe as well especially the snappy answers to stupid questions.

I think you're right. I have no clue about how complex and serious writing is supposed to be so I just free wheel through things with no worries of "is that right? How would so and so do this? Does this work?" I just truck along whistling like the happy little writing fool I am.

People who are "hardcore" about it. Studying how to after how to and obsessing over the Chicago manual and taking seminars and classes....they are so stuck on what's right they can;t get out of their own way.

Creativity is the opposite of structure. You cannot fence in your muse with a hundred rules or plan down to the last word and expect something to flow well.

Even outlines they can be a good tool to not forget things and give you a skeleton of your story, but too many take it to far and then force their creativity into that pre defined box.

I read that some authors spend six month or more on their outline. Six months? We're six months into the year and I've published 12 e-books and over 220k. My last "full length" book was 137k done start to finish in three weeks.

or I could....sit and plat and plan.

Yes, there are basic rules we need to follow, grammar, tenses, etc...but man do some people over complicate things.

writers have a natural gift and yes it needs dome direction to help it along, but creativity is a raw power and by nature not conducive to the norm. Writers, artists, musicians, even actors, these people by nature are outside the box people and somehow all that talent is supposed to be forced inside a box some goof who thinks they know it all created.

I'm of the opinion that writers need to recognize their choices and choose: they can fit a tale inside a formula as hacks do (and hacks turn out some good stuff, but its all paint by the numbers), they can do it romantic style with obligatory plots and outlines, or they can do it existentially, that is...shit happens or doesn't happen and the writer is the last to know when and where the train stops.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Gotta add COOL HAND LUKE by Donn Pearce to my how-to-write collection.

The book is better than the movie, by the way.

The movie is a box fulla interesting and amusing scenes that celebrate Luke's droll agenda within the prison camp. Luke inspires and motivates all the cons. He's a natural leader. In the book Lloyd Jackson is a much different person than Luke, tho he calls himself 'Luke'.

Lloyd gives every activity his best effort. He's no deep thinker or crusader or mystic or bomb thrower or entertainer. Everything he does gets his full attention and effort. He doesn't stop till every egg is eaten, every ditch is repaired, every beer drank, every penny won at poker, and every Nazi killed. He has chest fulla medals for bravery in battle, and a body fulla scars. He doesn't scheme or plan or conspire. When the Captains ass needs kissing Lloyd does it with enthusiasm and devotion and a sincere desire to please.

The book is a study of how distinct and diverse personalities co-exist in a cage. Lloyd is obedient and cooperative, a selfless team player who spends all his money on the other cons, but he isn't afraid of anyone or anything, and that sets him up for torment and persecution from people who demand fear and get off on terror. Afraid isn't a word Lloyd understands. The prison script has no roles for fearless nice guys, so Lloyd is doomed.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I read that Donn Pearce did 2 years on a Florida chain-gang.