How to: Stop being lead on

[Ravin the Poet]

You ever wanted to see a 180, well get ready for it... (you have been warned)

Today I read the boards, and took everything into account. And noticed one thing, I myself am doing. I play to much of the victim, to much of the whiney bitch. I am going through a stressful time right, with this women thing, school, moving, and you know what? Life is just dull. I'm a writer, and you know what I see in this world and everywhere else? The same bloody thing. I'm a victim of it as well. It's the same routine, same news, same writing same everything. So after playing hockey tonight, and thinking deeply about what I wanted from life. I decided since my life is being so shooken up.....why not do it some more!!

I can see where some think this is going, but really, even I don't know where I am going. The me now is like your typical little teen, same shit, same story. So I ask why can't I do what ever I want? People in this thread asked me, why didn't I kiss her? Respectful, shy? That's not what I WANTED...I WANTED to kiss her, so I SHOULD kiss her. Hell, if I wanted to kiss anyone, why shouldn't I? (within reason of course) I'm not a bad boy, but why not have the best of both words. Show the positives in me, and hide the negatives. Simple be to a women "This is me, this is the whole show, and this is what I offer" hide the negative.

I have this mind set that right now, I should always go into something worrying about my own needs and my motives. I'm single, so MY NEEDS are what I should worry about. Seeing myself in this thread, I need an adjustment, and I am starting to take the steps in the right direction I think. As someone said, tonight I took the first step on my long journey. One Step! I will keep you informed on step two.

Ravin

 

[Exciteher]

...That's not what I WANTED...I WANTED to kiss her, so I SHOULD kiss her. Hell, if I wanted to kiss anyone, why shouldn't I? (within reason of course) I'm not a bad boy, but why not have the best of both words. Show the positives in me, and hide the negatives. Simple be to a women "This is me, this is the whole show, and this is what I offer" hide the negative.....

....I have this mind set that right now, I should always go into something worrying about my own needs and my motives. I'm single, so MY NEEDS are what I should worry about....

Ravin,
It sounds like you have begun to reclaim your power! You know Ravin, no matter how I may have sounded to you, my wish for you was to see you do what you are doing right now! When you said above "I WANTED to kiss her," that is exactly what I meant about "owning" your feelings, "owning" your wants. Part of reclaiming and building your power is to be able to actually feel and to "own" these feelings, no matter what they are. Sounds like you're making a shift.

You are a writer...who said "To thyne own self be true?" You are on the right track here, but be careful about dividing the world into two. Be careful about looking at the world, feelings..or anything... and judging them "good or bad" ,"positive or negative" or "black and white" too quickly.

No, you are not a bad boy, I can tell you are a very good person.
You are not "bad boy" and you are not a "nice boy".
You do not need to put the yoke of those labels around your neck.
Just be an man. You can leave the boy games to the boys, you can move on into your power.

Just be you. ALL of you. The you that wants to love and be loved. The you that wants a kiss and will give one. The you that is powerful enough to feel what he feels. The you that is powerful enough to say to yourself, "Yes I love" or "Yes, I want a kiss", or "Yes, I am afraid," or "Yes, I shall act" or "Yes, I feel all of that, and all those feelings, and more..they are mine... they are my right"

Just be the powerful you. You do not have to divide yourself into a positive you, or a negative you. You may think there is something that is negative about you, but some beautiful woman may think that same thing is a positive! You will not live long enough to figure out what others will judge positive or negative about you, (unless you are murderer or something of course..within reason as you say!).
So what do you have to gain by judging yourself like that? Nothing ..that is what!

If you are authentic.. and if you authenically accept yourself... you do not need to think about hiding anything. And that makes life much simpler.

You said, "I should always go into something worrying about my own needs and my motives.", and this is a big positive step! So lets tune this up just a little bit...

Ravin, you are a writer..so you know the power of words... I invite you consider rephrasing the sentence above to this:

"I will always go into something aware of and owning my own needs and my motives."

You said, "I'm single, so MY NEEDS are what I should worry about", and this is a step in the right direction also..and I would say this also applies if you are single or married. One mistake married people make is that one partner or the other surrenders their needs... and their power...to the other partner. Over time, this builds resentment in the disempowered person..and the marrage eventually and surely corrodes into divorce..or misery. So lets tune this up a little bit to say:

In a relationship(or marrage) or not, I will be aware of, and own, MY NEEDS.

and add this:

In a relationship (or marrage), I will be aware of, and my partner has the right to, HER NEEDS.

These changes are small, but clarifing differences though, don't you think? You had it essentially correct.

Simple be the whole you to a women. Hide no more. You do not have to. You took your power back. But why am I saying this, you know all that now!!!!

 

[Ravin the Poet]

Everything you said Exciteher is true. I was talking to a friend last night, and she thought I was turning into the asshole type. I set her straight. Fact is, people keep saying I am to selffish. My mom says I am, when I reality, I think the my problem was I was to focused on everyone else. I never stopped and actually said "wait a minute...I am helping them get what they want...but what do I want."

I went back and looked at my motives again, and decided to answer your questions but in a want way. Why do I WANT a girlfirned?

I want one because....

1) I want to care for someone more then a friend
2) I want to kiss them when I want
3) I want to be able to get physical without worrying about lead ons
4) I want to be with someone

Straight to the point. I do want sex, I do want to kiss, and learn more. You can only learn so much from Lit before you need to actually do something.

It's going to be a crazy time, and it should be exciting to see what happens. Depending what University I go to, I could be with this girl I talk about even more. (not my reason for going, the school is top10 in Canada) So who knows what could happen. All I know is, I still have unfinished business with her.

Now I guess it comes to another question. Do I just leave her now, and move on, or do I try to continue even though she said she doesn't want anything right now. Like SweetE said, friends can turn into more in a blink of an eye. I feel if I just do what I want, and show her, I will get a better answer as to where we stand.


Ravin

 

[dollface007]

who said "To thyne own self be true?"

"It's just like Hamlet said, 'To thine own self be true.'"
"Uh, Hamlet didn't say that."
"I think I remember Hamlet accurately."
"Well, I remember Mel Gibson accurately, and he didn't say that. That Polonius guy did."


Sorry, I couldn't resist. Didn't Socrates say it first, though?

I've got another quote for you: "If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." This sort of embodies a lot of the posts I've seen from you, Raven....until now. I think TRUE self-reflexivity and mindfulness is a sign of maturity. And over-analyzing your life is not the same thing.

If you want something, just go for it. Yes, you need to weigh pros and cons and think about what the consequences might be, but if it's not going to hurt you or anybody else, just fucking go for it already!

 

[SweetErika]

Everything you said Exciteher is true. I was talking to a friend last night, and she thought I was turning into the asshole type. I set her straight. Fact is, people keep saying I am to selffish. My mom says I am, when I reality, I think the my problem was I was to focused on everyone else. I never stopped and actually said "wait a minute...I am helping them get what they want...but what do I want."

A lot of times "victim" types come off as selfish...it's all about their bad luck and what everyone else is doing to them. They're always talking about their own problems, and never seem to realize there's an entire world of good and bad around them.

In contrast, people who take charge of their lives come off as centered, confident, reflective, and giving. The less you think you're a victim, the more time and energy you have to be generous to others. I hope that makes sense.

I think you're on the right track in refusing to be a victim of life anymore. Take care in not slipping back into that role by always putting your needs first...that's also a victim behavior. You should definitely assert yourself and go after what you want (within reason -- if she's not giving you positive cues, don't move in), but don't turn into a selfish asshole in the process. You can treat others well AND get what you want...Exciteher has excellent ideas on that (like making her feel wonderful about herself and giving pleasure before, during, and after a kiss or something more). People who are equally aware of their own and others' needs do very well.

It's like a pendulum...you were swinging way too far in one direction, and now you want to move in the opposite direction. The trick is finding the midpoint though, and all will go better once you do that. Get what you want/be assertive, but keep your kindness, compassion, awareness of the wants and needs of others, and thoughtfulness. Continue to be a nice guy, and you'll be rewarded.

 

[Exciteher]

... Now I guess it comes to another question. Do I just leave her now, and move on, or do I try to continue even though she said she doesn't want anything right now. Like SweetE said, friends can turn into more in a blink of an eye. I feel if I just do what I want, and show her, I will get a better answer as to where we stand.

SweetErika is absolutey correct.

And also, resist looking at this in terms of "leaving her" or not, and dollface007 is right, you do not have to overanalyze things. Or over define them either.

She says she "just" wants to be friends? OK, fine!

If she physically backs away... back off and move on to another girl.

Friends or not, If she keeps physically moving toward you, move toward her.
If you can get your arms around her...in terms of what to DO, or "steps", dwh2 gave you some good steps to follow.

Don't let her "lead you"..you "lead" her. You do the "poking", not her.
If she keeps moving toward..you can..and must.. increase the intimacy of your touches. Keep pushing the edge till she backs off or says stop...then back your touches off a couple of notches...and begin to increase them again..and push the edge as far as it will go again... if you keep hitting the same stopping point with her, may be time to end the date or move on and let her stew in her own juices for a while...so it can all sink in.

If she keeps backing away... back off and move on to another girl.

If she sees you mean business and that you will get your kisses with or without her, her attitude about what you mean to her may change. If not,

Keep the talking and the thinking to a minimum... empty you mind so you can be AWARE of how she if FEELING. Let your bodies do the talking..

 

[Exciteher]

A lot of times "victim" types come off as selfish...it's all about their bad luck and what everyone else is doing to them. They're always talking about their own problems....

In contrast, people who take charge of their lives come off as centered, confident, reflective, and giving....

......Take care in not slipping back into that role by always putting your needs first...that's also a victim behavior. You should definitely assert yourself and go after what you want (within reason -- if she's not giving you positive cues, don't move in), but don't turn into a selfish asshole in the process. You can treat others well AND get what you want.....

It's like a pendulum...you were swinging way too far in one direction, and now you want to move in the opposite direction. The trick is finding the midpoint ....

You expressed this so well, and you are totally right on!
Listen to the lady Raven!

 

[Exciteher]

"It's just like Hamlet said, 'To thine own self be true.'"
"Uh, Hamlet didn't say that."
"I think I remember Hamlet accurately."
"Well, I remember Mel Gibson accurately, and he didn't say that. That Polonius guy did."


Sorry, I couldn't resist. Didn't Socrates say it first, though?

LOL! Where did you get that passage from?? That is halarious! Polonius did speak that , in the play Hamllet... so therefore I suppose Shakespeare really said it first.

The major passage in fact, is very pertinant to the discussion:

Yet here, Laertes! Aboard, aboard for shame!
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay'd for.
There ... my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg’d comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in,
Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man;
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!

 

[dollface007]

LOL! Where did you get that passage from?? That is halarious! Polonius did speak that , in the play Hamllet... so therefore I suppose Shakespeare really said it first.

It's from the movie "Clueless." One of my favorite movies.

Yes, technically, it's Shakespeare. However, he got the idea from Socrates who first said "Know thy self." Yes, I'm a nerd.

 

[Exciteher]

It's from the movie "Clueless." One of my favorite movies.

Yes, technically, it's Shakespeare. However, he got the idea from Socrates who first said "Know thy self." Yes, I'm a nerd.

LOL! Thanks! My intuition tells me you are far more than a nerd! Jeez, I studied Socrate and I saw Clueless. Yep, its ginko time for me...lol!

 

[dwh2]

I have been reading this thread as a father of two older children, I can feel for Raven. I do beleive though a little confused he is on the right track.

I think a lot of the problem that affects the younger members of these boards is that many of the memebers that discuss sex so openly and without inhibitions are (parden me) older and have been passed where Raven is now. The things that are important to us now, are not what they were in younger years. We have made love to that someone special. We experienced something much warmer and meanigful than just getting my rocks off! I have plenty of experience, and yet at the same time why should I assume that a woman wants to sleep with me?

Well said sir.

 

[dwh2]

A lot of times "victim" types come off as selfish...it's all about their bad luck and what everyone else is doing to them. They're always talking about their own problems, and never seem to realize there's an entire world of good and bad around them.

In contrast, people who take charge of their lives come off as centered, confident, reflective, and giving. The less you think you're a victim, the more time and energy you have to be generous to others. I hope that makes sense.

I think you're on the right track in refusing to be a victim of life anymore. Take care in not slipping back into that role by always putting your needs first...that's also a victim behavior. You should definitely assert yourself and go after what you want (within reason -- if she's not giving you positive cues, don't move in), but don't turn into a selfish asshole in the process. You can treat others well AND get what you want...Exciteher has excellent ideas on that (like making her feel wonderful about herself and giving pleasure before, during, and after a kiss or something more). People who are equally aware of their own and others' needs do very well.

It's like a pendulum...you were swinging way too far in one direction, and now you want to move in the opposite direction. The trick is finding the midpoint though, and all will go better once you do that. Get what you want/be assertive, but keep your kindness, compassion, awareness of the wants and needs of others, and thoughtfulness. Continue to be a nice guy, and you'll be rewarded.

I can't concentrate on this thread anymore. I misread two things already and made an ass of myself. I have to confess. After seeing your avatar I totally lose my train of thought. (I hope you are female Erika and that isn't an avatar of your wife.)

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm getting to the party a little late, but thought I might mention a couple of things I see here.

Ravin, I get the impression that you believe wanting sex makes you 'bad'. And you might also believe that girls think guys who are interested in them physically are 'bad'. I would disagree! Physical attraction is fun and exciting and it makes the whole getting to know someone that much more exhilarating!

The attraction, the chemistry, that's what gets your heart racing and makes you nervous and makes you feel more alive when you're around a girl you like. There's nothing at all wrong with that. It doesn't make you a player to be interested in sex. No more than it makes a girl a slut.

In any case, you don't need to get psyched up for sex yet - you're still working on those first, delicious kisses. When you're with a girl and the two of you are talking, there's going to be a moment when the two of you are maybe sitting close, maybe cuddling. One of you is going to say something that makes the both of you laugh. Catch one of those moments, look into her eyes, place a hand behind her head, and gently draw her into a kiss. It's that easy.

If she smiles, kiss her again.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

I have got to say, at the end of all of this, it has been such a good experience for me. I haven't done anything with this girl in what seems will turn into a month come next weekend. And I am at the point where I don't care. I am moving forward, and worrying about things that I need to worry about, and need to care about.

Really why I am posting this is to say thank you to everyone. The reason I posted here was because I knew I would get the advice I needed, even if I didn't want to hear it. Thank you once again, and as always, I will keep you all up to date on anything that goes on with me. The first kiss will be something to write about for sure.

Ravin