How to stage an intervention.

[KoPilot]

Okay so I live with 3 people, one of whom I've been living with for going on 4 years now. He lives like a crack addict despite the fact that half a beer every other month is about the extent of his substance abuse. He sleeps on a mattress on the floor (okay so we live in a rough neighborhood now, but he's been doing this since we lived in Manhattan out of laziness) with one sheet that he's never, to my knowledge, washed. His circadian rhythm switches between being completely nocturnal for no reason (10a-6p) and sleeping in spurts of 3-4 hours at a time. His room smells, he doesn't often shower, and he makes a disgusting mess every time he cooks and puts up with our yelling at him for a day, sometimes two, before he cleans it up.
TL;DR he's an immature slob.

Well, couple all of that with graduation a few months back, and a new freelancing job, and you've got an immature slob that is coping with the bare minimums of adulthood by being even more disgusting, surly, and all-around miserable to live with. I can read this kid like an open book now, and I can tell that doing this job has turned him into an anxious, paranoid nutcase that wants nothing more than to move back in with his parents and play video games forever. (He had a maid back home.) It's manifesting itself in him procrastinating: he's constantly paralyzed with the knowledge that he should be working when he isn't, but when he finally sits down to do so, he does nothing but dick around, so it takes him a long time to finish, which freaks him out. Repeat ad nauseum. So naturally, he's so on edge all the time, that he doesn't think that he has time to do anything... including leave the apartment to get groceries once a week, let alone take care of himself, or help clean. In fact, I haven't seen him draw in months (we were art students).

So all in all, none of us knows what the fuck to do about him. It doesn't help that he's sort of our friend, so at the same time we want to help him. But he's just so fucking pissy and stubborn that I'm not sure there's much any of us can do anyways, other than put up with him. Had a friend that saw him for the first time in a couple months at NYCC this weekend that described him as "an empty shell", and if it keeps up, we all think he's going to have some kind of insane mental breakdown. None of us really knows what he would do if it came to that, but... all we know is that it's a totally unsustainable lifestyle he's living, and something's going to have to give. Either it, or him.

Preferably it.

Any ideas?

 

[sunandshadow]

Probably what will happen is he'll quit the job to get away from the stress, about which he will then feel ashamed and hide in his room. What I'd recommend for him is something like a factory job - no thought or initiative required, nothing brought home, ideally a completely regular schedule and something he can do with his hands because there's a visceral sort of satisfaction to that. Then he could do art as a free time activity, with perhaps a store on etsy or an occasional booth at a convention or craft fair to sell it if he produced enough.

 

[KoPilot]

He actually is working with his hands; he's drawing comics for a small publisher, which is what he went to school to do, and what he claims is his passion. Honestly I think he's better at this than he'd ever be at a job that required any sort of rigid schedule from him. Although I agree that he really needs to buck up and learn how to outgrow his bad case of manchild syndrome, it would probably take getting fired 2 or 3 times from being late or skipping work before he even realized what he was doing wrong. He's also a terrible multitasker, so I think it's going to take him many, many years before he gets the hang of what "on the side" or "as a hobby" actually means.

Lol the hiding in the room part I can definitely see. The good (or perhaps bad) thing is that he has such an incredible safety net, and also has no debt to speak of, so if he quit this job, the only damage it would cause would be to his already temperamental ego.

I guess maybe the best thing to do in this case is to let him run himself into the ground, hopes that he learns from that, and wait for him to pick himself up again (when he gets around to it).

 

[SweetErika]

I'd suggest contacting a mental health and/or adult social services agency and seeing what they suggest in terms of offering him help via some kind of intervention, contacting his parents (it sounds like they may have the resources to get him professional help), and coping with his behavior. You may very well lose a "friend" and roomie by intervening, but at least it'll give him the chance at recovery from whatever it is he's been suffering through.

Are you SURE substance abuse isn't involved? Even pot or prescription medications can throw people for a loop like that. Do you have an idea about his mental health history? If not, is that maybe something you could ask his family about? IMHO, they should be aware of how he's living so they'll know what they're getting into if he were to move in with them and/or can make getting the help he needs a condition of such a move.

Anyway, I'd do those things first, then probably kick him out if his habits were affecting me negatively. The ideal situation would be for him to either get help while living with you, or as a condition of living with his family (or anyone else). Yeah, he could always choose to give the streets a shot, but it sounds like he values at least some creature comforts, so he probably wouldn't choose homelessness to avoid getting help (at least for very long). The two big cardinal rules for any situation that involves self-destruction are EVERYONE must be on the same page and follow through with their conditions/threats, which means you'll have to try to get his family on the same page before you take action. I'm sure adult social services or the other agencies you reach out to for help with this can give you good advice on talking to your friend's loved ones about your concerns and proposals.

 

[SweetErika]

Oh, and I'd be careful deeming this "immaturity" or similar. I'm sure that's one component, but what you're describing points to something a lot more serious going on, in my mind at least. He could be gravely clinically depressed or bipolar, for instance.

 

[KoPilot]

Ahh good advice, Erika! If it doesn't show any signs of letting up, I'll be sure to approach his folks about it.

I think a lot of it has to do with maturity issues and angst... we met another girl doing comics for the publisher that we both work with (I'm actually coloring her art) a couple weeks back for dinner, and after listening to her expound her own problems, which included being neck-deep in student loan debt despite being forced to drop out after only 2 years, he seemed to be convinced that his own problems paled in comparison, and showed signs of turning over a new leaf. Unfortunately, after a few days he went back to being his old self.

And I will also admit that he is probably extremely depressed--whether the reasons are silly or not are neither here nor there--because he was never this bad in school. Skipping class because he stayed up all night gaming, not ever expressing interest in getting a job, browsing the internet during studio classes; those are things I'd say are a maturity problem. But at least then he was social and more or less relaxed.

The issues of "back" home for him is a tricky one, because he's from Taiwan. His parents do have a lot of money, and I'm envious of his safety net, but the fact that he has expressed a possible interest in going back there just for the sake of not having to worry about paying for anything is worrying. For one, there's no job market there for someone like him, and he knows that. If he went home, it would be out of a desire to escape responsibility. That also means getting his family involved would be difficult, but I guess at the very least I could email his parents. (Also not sure if there might be something of a culture clash when it comes to talking to them about the subject of mental health and all that.)

Now that you've mentioned bipolar disorder, that could very well be part of the issue. Though he's extremely prone to stress (his pre-college years seemed pretty carefree); he actually admitted himself to the ER last year because he thought he was having a heart attack... it was probably anxiety.

Anyways, this is all great stuff to consider. I'll talk with my other roommate and see what she thinks about this plan.

 

[SweetErika]

You're right, the cultural issue could be tricky. My husband works with several Taiwanese, so I could ask him if he can get any info on how they view depression and other mental health issues.

However, knowing what I do about that culture, I think it could also work in your (and ultimately his) favor. Sons are often babied to their detriment, but men are expected to work hard, and I'd imagine his family could somewhat shame him into getting help and/or make it a condition of returning home so they don't lose face by having an immature, mentally ill son living with them. I'd be willing to bet that's one of the reasons he hasn't moved home already - his family may have house staff, but they may not put up with having a kid who's doing nothing but shaming them, especially if they're in the elite class.

 

[SweetErika]

OK, Hubby said he'd try to ask his Taiwanese coworker/friend for you. As it so happens, she's from a wealthy family as well.

In the meantime, you might see what info you can gather from adult social services and mental health agencies for those issues, as well as other Taiwanese people regarding the cultural aspects (see what you can find online, through Taiwanese cultural and assistance groups, Taiwanese expat and student groups, etc.). I don't know what's available in your area, but here we have assistance organizations for just about every culture, and the people who staff them are bilingual.

Basically, do some groundwork and make a plan based on the advice you receive so you have the best shot at getting through to him (and probably his parents; I think they're going to play an integral role here). Hopefully your other roommate can help with some of the research so it doesn't all fall on you. Keep approaching it as a concerned friend and human being. Then put your plan in motion and the rest will be up to him. If he takes the help, great; if doesn't accept the help, at least you'll be secure in the knowledge that you truly tried your best to offer him a better path and you can wash your hands of it.

 

[KoPilot]

Oh wow.. thanks a bunch, Erika! I seriously owe you... somehow. xD

Had a long convo about this whole thing with my roomie on the train, and found out that he's been giving her a particularly hard time; being extremely passive-aggressive, and just plain mean. And I guess also he's been getting this way since before school ended, too. Just being really weird and dickish when I wasn't around. She's convinced that he's just extremely selfish and has little capacity for empathy (he was making extremely offensive cancer jokes the week after I buried my grandfather who lost his fight with it), and therefore doesn't see his behavior as a problem unless it's negatively affecting him in some direct way, like, say, measurable stress.

I also talked to her about approaching his folks about this, and she said that her impression is that he isn't close to them at all, despite them being extremely supportive and loving, and doesn't care to be. So if they talk to him at my nudging, it may be of no use. She said that she's completely fed up with him and doesn't see herself as being his friend anymore, and is actually enjoying all the time he spends in his room so she doesn't have to interact with him, and at the same time doesn't mind him living with us because he's a reliable source of rent. If he loses his job and can't pay, then his parents definitely would.

Yikes. :\

 

[Noira]

I'd swear you were living with my brother with some of that initial description. D: Especially with the nocturnal clock-flipping. I get like that too, when my schedule gets thrown out of the window. Which is why I'm posting at 3 AM, of course. It's tough in an artsy career to keep a good schedule.

Honestly, though, I'd say it sounds like medical depression of some sort, as well as a good dose of selfishness. Had a maid at home? Egads.

 

[fire_breeze]

I'd swear you were living with my brother with some of that initial description.

I was thinking along the same lines, except replace brother with one of my former roommates.

If any underlying medical concerns and mental health has been ruled out, then it's quite possible that he is unaware that he is being a veritable ass. Has anyone called him out whenever he makes an inappropriate comment, when he leaves a mess, when he is being an unliveable prick? A simple "Buddy, that was an unacceptable douche-bag of a comment" can go a long way. I am hesitant to label all wealthy children as selfish and spoiled - I had a roommate who came from a very rich family (maids, boarding schools, farms, private planes, etc) who was extremely responsible and kind. Granted, his parents made him stand on his two feet, and ensured that he was very aware that they are not the norm, but that's beyond the point. However, whenever he or some other roommate left a mess, was disruptive, was acting like a jerk, or whatnot, we all made sure that they knew. A simple "Hey kid, clean up. I'm not your *insert expletive of choice* maid" can shame someone into cleaning up.

If this is a case of him being irresponsible and mental health have been ruled out by a professional, then sit him down with your other roommates and tell him, point blank, that this cannot go on, and together, create a list of 'house rules'. Be polite, be non-aggressive and non confrontational, but firm. Negotiate a contract between all roommates, detailing the rules of common living and all of you sign it. Decide then at what point you will ask a person to find other living arrangements. You might have to come up with creative ways of handling things. So if he leaves his dirty plates in the kitchen for more than 2 days, it goes into his bedroom. If he leaves his clothes lying around, you put it in a garbage bag in a corner. If any one of you has to clean up after him, charge him for services. You'd be surprised how quick a person will follow the 'house rules' after being charged 80$ four weeks in a row. However, this has to be applicable to ALL, not just him, so be prepared to live by it.

His sleeping routine might not be something he can control - I know I can't - but what can be controlled is how he deals with it.

This worked for me with impossible roommates, including one who was a pothead and lived a complete unhealthy lifestyle. By signing a contract, by doing these little things kept all of our sanities in check, and made living manageable. The corner of the den had a pile of garbage bags with her shirts and socks, but throw a cute blanket over it, and no one knew the difference.

Good luck.

 

[KoPilot]

I'd swear you were living with my brother with some of that initial description. D: Especially with the nocturnal clock-flipping. I get like that too, when my schedule gets thrown out of the window. Which is why I'm posting at 3 AM, of course. It's tough in an artsy career to keep a good schedule.

LOL it's hard for me to sympathize (or even begin to understand) why someone would willingly keep a schedule like that when it's clearly not helping their quality of life. I mean, I'm a freelancer too that currently works and plays at my computer, which sucks, but I still go to bed before 2 and wake up before 10. If he has to go out and interact with the rest of the world for whatever, then it's a huge inconvenience for him, because that means he has to wake up before the work day is over, which usually leaves him even more dead and grouchy. Or leaves him just plain ol' not feeling like following through with his responsibilities. Because if getting up before 3p requires you to get less than 5 hours of sleep? Of course you'd rather stay in bed, especially if you have little to no resolve.

 

[KoPilot]

I was thinking along the same lines, except replace brother with one of my former roommates.

If any underlying medical concerns and mental health has been ruled out, then it's quite possible that he is unaware that he is being a veritable ass.

I think it's both, but being an irresponsible ass has always been part of his MO, and isn't helping now that he has something else serious going on too.

Has anyone called him out whenever he makes an inappropriate comment, when he leaves a mess, when he is being an unliveable prick? A simple "Buddy, that was an unacceptable douche-bag of a comment" can go a long way. I am hesitant to label all wealthy children as selfish and spoiled - I had a roommate who came from a very rich family (maids, boarding schools, farms, private planes, etc) who was extremely responsible and kind. Granted, his parents made him stand on his two feet, and ensured that he was very aware that they are not the norm, but that's beyond the point. However, whenever he or some other roommate left a mess, was disruptive, was acting like a jerk, or whatnot, we all made sure that they knew. A simple "Hey kid, clean up. I'm not your *insert expletive of choice* maid" can shame someone into cleaning up.

With him, it has limited success. With the cancer jokes (they were bundled with other horribly offensive things, like racist, sexist, and sizist comments), the only reason he relented and apologized was because I decided to go the public shaming route and announce that I would be posting as status messages on facebook every awful thing that he (and my other roommate, who also sometimes has a terrible sense of humor) said. The other roommate saw it, freaked out, and I guess told him to quit it. Original roommate apologized--and get this--only because my grandpa had died recently. I had to correct him and say, "No, these aren't things you say period."

As for the cleaning part, that's with limited success as well. Sometimes he'll listen, sometimes he'll get stand-offish and surly, and other times he'll just flat out ignore us.

If this is a case of him being irresponsible and mental health have been ruled out by a professional, then sit him down with your other roommates and tell him, point blank, that this cannot go on, and together, create a list of 'house rules'.

I've tried that in previous years, and he just ends ignoring them. As for getting paid to clean up after him, that'd never fly. He's got too much pride for that.

Good luck.

Thanks!

--

So I think we might all be sitting him down today. Knowing how he might possibly respond to his parents attempting to get involved in a non-threatening way (i.e. none at all), we're going to try giving him a choice to deal with this and seek out help on his own with our support, or we'll get his parents involved. I know if we do that he'd probably wouldn't want them touching him with a ten foot pole, but at that point, they'd probably counter that with some parental sternness anyways. The shaming idea might even be more successful that way if it came to that, too. The only clout we really have is whether or not he gets the boot, but we're really hoping that this whole shitfest can get resolved before we even have to figure that out.

 

[_Virginia_]

I am not without sympathy for this person, but really, his misery is taking an incredible toll on everyone in your household and that is not fair to you or to your roommate. Some people, whether they are just out of school or just entering retirement, are not fit to live with roommates.

If I were in your position, I would sit down with him and start a conversation by saying that you are concerned for his well being (give examples) and continue with how his actions (the examples you give) affect your household in general and that you are no longer willing to live in misery. I would state exactly what changes I expected to see from him - and tell him that I was willing to help him make those changes (whether they be finding a counselor, a doctor, whatever).

Give him a chance to respond (warning: he might get really pissed off and/or defensive!) - either then or within the next day or two. If he is willing to try and change, great. But if not, it might be time for him to go. I have had many roommates and dealt with many unpleasant situations - including an "intervention" - and had mixed results.

I am sorry that you and your roommate are having such an awful time with this guy - you're a very kind person to want to help him. Good luck.