How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[phrodeau]

Methodists are splitting up. At least one sect will now be heathen.

 

[Tryharder62]

73 million Christian people of the Orthodox Tewahedo faith use the Ge'ez Bible, mainly in N.E.Africa, centred in Ethiopia. It along with the Coptic Bible of Egypt (22 million people) were very early versions originating more than 1000 years before the KJV that you use. There is some evidence that parts of the Ge'ez OT dates directly from pre Christian Hebrew sources but it is much more likely that the Greek Septuagint, also (pre - Christian) was their main OT source.

There is very significant additional material in the Ge'ez NT. There is also a very interesting omission - there is no resurrection story at all in the Ge'ez gospel of Mark. This is especially interesting given Western Christianity's difficulties with the end of Mark's gospel.

I will see if I can attach the wiki article listing the various and different canons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

The tables in this article make it very clear that these are not merely different translations but these different Bibles have very different content as well. I can see from a literalists point of view that presents a major problem because which version is true; the English KJV translated from poor Greek and solid Latin sources (also from Greek and 9th century Hebrew)1600 years later, or a 3rd/4th century Ge'ez source translated from original Koine Greek and Septuagint sources.

There are no easy answers.

But the Masoretic text is the accepted Hebrew Canon whereas the Mesoatis you mention is the name of a modern Greek Supermarket.

One day - maybe - if I have a month or so to spare, I will do a brief piece on the translation errors - plus both accidental and deliberate editorial changes.

I like the table that was in the article you quoted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

I will share why I follow the Protestant bible. If you compare the Protestant Old Testament on the left most column of the table with the Jewish (Hebrew) Bible on the right most column you will see that they contain the same thing. The rest do not. If Jesus is the Messiah (that the Jewish people are still waiting for) why would you study books that are not considered God Inspired or followed by the Jews to find out? Jesus taught from the books of the Hebrew Bible but he never did from the books of the apocrypha.

The 27 books of the New Testament are not normally disputed by Christians.

Translation is always going to be a problem. My son is learning Hebrew and let me tell you I could not. I will have to stick to an English translation.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

See in 2 pages

 

[RocketLauncher]

Arm tired from punishing sinners?
Hair shirt at the dry cleaners?

http://jessewhittock1.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/flag_large1.jpg

 

[dolf]

Firat of all, I have to say that if you are a Bible Scholar and Youth Pastor you aught not be swearing and even in the same paragraph as you are telling people that.

Why?.

 

[RocketLauncher]

http://pics.gramateurs.com/gifs/pain-and-torture/pain-and-torture-48357.gif

That Dom/Domme is seriously into it. Those restraints are cemented to the floor.

 

[RocketLauncher]

https://cdn5-images.motherlessmedia.com/images/728FB65.jpg

Oh my!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Plus I'm a biblical scholar and youth pastor and she's a convert. There are sociology studies on this subject. I'm not using the experience over evidence logical falliacy, it's standard practice in every Christian denomination in the states except Catholicism and certain branches of Lutheran stuff that kids are banned from reading the Bible. Because you have to, 'train up a child' and if you give them a real bible before they're properly indoctrinated to not see the bullshit they see the bullshit. Like... Why did she think there were kid and teen versions if what I said wasn't true? They lose money on those because they're given away to the youth groups so it's not a money game. Like what was the thought process there?

I super don't have that tendency y'all just don't want to admit stuff for weird reasons. She's the one extrapolating from her limited experience and I'm the one trained to teach kids.

Kids call you on your bullshit. Like you know how if you let them think too hard on it they're like, "wait... Is this Santa thing bullshit?". They do that with the Bible if you let them read it before they feel so pressed to 'believe' that they'll do doublethink, and parents know that. So they make little kid versions with most of the bullshit cut out. And most of those kids never read a real bible. They'll think, as adults, that Noah got 2 of every animal and shit because they never read a real bible.

Like literally just Google'implicit atheism' and a lot of this will probably come up. This is a well-known, common thing. I actually put that user on iggy because she knew so little about the way Christianity was commonly practiced, the bible, or anything else that even as an atheist I found it insulting because I'm from the Bible Belt. The way she talks is insulting to my culture. It says you have to train up a child IN THE BIBLE. You don't give sacred shit to kids.

Jesus Christ.

I have to say that if you are a Bible Scholar and Youth Pastor you aught not be swearing and even in the same paragraph as you are telling people that.

The Baptist Church is the largest Protestant Denomination and they DO have the kids read the actual Bible. No made up kids Bible. In good Churches they read it week after week and that is the primary source of all of their lessons. In weaker Churches they tend to soften the emphasis on the Bible and teach on feel good topics that don't deal with sin and temptation. The Bible should be the basis for the Christian faith beliefs and doctrines. It seems like you are in agreement with that.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

When I was a kid, every child in school was gifted a copy of the new testament at around 10y/o. It's only just occurred to me how expensive that must be, a church giving away literally millions of books. Come high school, they were highly prized for the thin pages when cigarette papers ran out.

Hopefully, some of the kids saw the real vaue in it.

 

[heathergives]

Methodist Church split over LBGTQ issues:

Probably off topic, but this is a huge issue to many and is currently in the news.. I think there are 80 million practicing methodist in the US today. I was baptised Methodist, but frankly, I haven't been to a church in years. I think that the denomination should accept LBGTQ members, and that the ones that disagree are hypocrites. I consider myself an agnostic, BTW, and like George Carlin's take on religion:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+carlin+on+religion+he+loves+you&view=detail&mid=B1912D9D8C819E0D16F8B1912D9D8C819E0D16F8&FORM=VIRE

 

[dolf]

I have to say that if you are a Bible Scholar and Youth Pastor you aught not be swearing and even in the same paragraph as you are telling people that.

Why?.

 

[Tryharder62]

73 million Christian people of the Orthodox Tewahedo faith use the Ge'ez Bible, mainly in N.E.Africa, centred in Ethiopia. It along with the Coptic Bible of Egypt (22 million people) were very early versions originating more than 1000 years before the KJV that you use. There is some evidence that parts of the Ge'ez OT dates directly from pre Christian Hebrew sources but it is much more likely that the Greek Septuagint, also (pre - Christian) was their main OT source.

There is very significant additional material in the Ge'ez NT. There is also a very interesting omission - there is no resurrection story at all in the Ge'ez gospel of Mark. This is especially interesting given Western Christianity's difficulties with the end of Mark's gospel.

I will see if I can attach the wiki article listing the various and different canons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

The tables in this article make it very clear that these are not merely different translations but these different Bibles have very different content as well. I can see from a literalists point of view that presents a major problem because which version is true; the English KJV translated from poor Greek and solid Latin sources (also from Greek and 9th century Hebrew)1600 years later, or a 3rd/4th century Ge'ez source translated from original Koine Greek and Septuagint sources.

There are no easy answers.

But the Masoretic text is the accepted Hebrew Canon whereas the Mesoatis you mention is the name of a modern Greek Supermarket.

One day - maybe - if I have a month or so to spare, I will do a brief piece on the translation errors - plus both accidental and deliberate editorial changes.

I like the table that was in the article you quoted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

I will share why I follow the Protestant bible. If you compare the Protestant Old Testament on the left most column of the table with the Jewish (Hebrew) Bible on the right most column you will see that they contain the same thing. The rest do not. If Jesus is the Messiah (that the Jewish people are still waiting for) why would you study books that are not considered God Inspired or followed by the Jews to find out? Jesus taught from the books of the Hebrew Bible but he never did from the books of the apocrypha.

The 27 books of the New Testament are not normally disputed by Christians.

Translation is always going to be a problem. My son is learning Hebrew and let me tell you I could not. I will have to stick to an English translation.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Why?.

Because it's a bad example.

 

[dolf]

Because it's a bad example.

Because other people might swear? As an end result, it hardly seems earth shattering.

Some people seem more offended by words they deem dirty than they are about actual evil.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Because other people might swear? As an end result, it hardly seems earth shattering.

Some people seem more offended by words they deem dirty than they are about actual evil.

If you claim to be a man of God you shouldn't misrepresent Him by swearing is all I am saying.

 

[dolf]

If you claim to be a man of God you shouldn't misrepresent Him by swearing is all I am saying.

How is swearing misrepresenting god? Surely you represent your god by helping, loving, caring... all that stuff Jesus told people to do in order to honour their god?

Swearing is just saying a word that some people think is dirty and some people think is acceptable. What's the big deal?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

How is swearing misrepresenting god? Surely you represent your god by helping, loving, caring... all that stuff Jesus told people to do in order to honour their god?

Swearing is just saying a word that some people think is dirty and some people think is acceptable. What's the big deal?

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. {to...: or, to edify profitably}

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Dolf a "a man of God"...???

https://media2.giphy.com/media/lT4sgCJwC7B4c/giphy.gif

https://media2.giphy.com/media/EWJZAWeAFgpaw/source.gif

We are referring to someone else NOT Dolf

 

[dolf]

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. {to...: or, to edify profitably}

That definition sounds more like a lie, or a manipulation of religious message, than saying poppyhead and fart. Do you have something more specific?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

That definition sounds more like a lie, or a manipulation of religious message, than saying poppyhead and fart. Do you have something more specific?

I believe that cursing and dirty talk would be included.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Hopefully, some of the kids saw the real vaue in it.

I found real value in the one given to me in school. It made me actually read it, instead of listening to someone "tell" me what was in it.

Reading that Gideon's bible set me free from a life of religious dogma.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

That definition sounds more like a lie, or a manipulation of religious message, than saying poppyhead and fart. Do you have something more specific?

"Paul transitions from a contrast between stealing and hard work (Ephesians 4:28) to contrasting corrupting speech with encouraging speech. In both cases, his intent is to explain how Christians need to make a conscious effort to live differently than in our pre-salvation days. Just as stealing is associated with unbelievers, so also corrupting talk is associated with those who do not know Christ.

Interestingly, Paul specifically indicates that we do indeed have control over what we say: "Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths." This contradicts the common excuse of "I couldn't help saying it." According to the Bible, we are accountable for the words we use (Matthew 12:36).


Instead of using "corrupting" or negative talk, Paul provides two guidelines for how to speak. First, we are to speak in beneficial ways about meaningful things. Second, we are to speak in ways appropriate to the situation we are in. What might be completely acceptable in one circumstance might be rude or unkind in another. The goal is to show grace to those who are listening to our words. We are not supposed to prioritize our own feelings, but make it our intent to help others through our words."

https://www.bibleref.com/Ephesians/4/Ephesians-4-29.html

In no place does it imply "swearing" is morally wrong. Nor does it condone swearing either. Telling a person to their face that they are "fucking idiot" is being morally wrong, but saying "fuck" when you hit your finger with a hammer is not. The moral aspect is not about the word, but how the word is used!

 

[dolf]

I believe that cursing and dirty talk would be included.

So you're just assuming that?

Going by how he was described, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing Jesus would give a shit about, as long as what was said was honest and not cruel. He was kinda known for not caring about the shallow things that got everyone else throwing judgement, and instead got pissed off by people being money grubbing, arrogant, judgemental and cruel.

 

[dolf]

In no place does it imply "swearing" is morally wrong. Nor does it condone swearing either. Telling a person to their face that they are "fucking idiot" is being morally wrong, but saying "fuck" when you hit your finger with a hammer is not. The moral aspect is not about the word, but how the word is used!

Thanks! That's what I thought.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

So you're just assuming that?

Going by how he was described, it doesn't sound like the sort of thing Jesus would give a shit about, as long as what was said was honest and not cruel. He was kinda known for not caring about the shallow things that got everyone else throwing judgement, and instead got pissed off by people being money grubbing, arrogant, judgemental and cruel.

Yes he is, since he views this through his interpretations.