How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Led_Astray]

Ya, that's not all xtian religions. Unitarians are pretty laid back, Presbyterians, too. Both lgbtq+ friendly at least.

Wherein lies the problem.

You have a group of people declaring "Follow the rules of our religion or go to hell."


But then different groups within that religion can't even agree what those rules are.

In fact, even within one branch of the faith they blatantly cherry-pick from the bible to allow them to do what they want to do whilst stopping other people doing what they want to do. Like the people who condemn homosexuality whilst not condemning divorce, for example.

Its hard to take a religion seriously when they ignore so many of their own teachings.

Which brings me to an interesting point, actually, with regards to the Christians in this thread.

What rules do you personally follow, and where do they come from? And which instructions from the bible are you happy to ignore as not being relevant to you?

 

[Tryharder62]

Wherein lies the problem.

You have a group of people declaring "Follow the rules of our religion or go to hell."


But then different groups within that religion can't even agree what those rules are.

In fact, even within one branch of the faith they blatantly cherry-pick from the bible to allow them to do what they want to do whilst stopping other people doing what they want to do. Like the people who condemn homosexuality whilst not condemning divorce, for example.

Its hard to take a religion seriously when they ignore so many of their own teachings.

Which brings me to an interesting point, actually, with regards to the Christians in this thread.

What rules do you personally follow, and where do they come from? And which instructions from the bible are you happy to ignore as not being relevant to you?

That is a very broad topic. I would be glad to answer specific questions too. If I had to answer now I would say that Jesus died on the cross to forgive our sins and if we believe that we will spend eternity with God. I also think that we are suppose to love each other. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think Jesus and love are the key to how I try to live. You know I use the bible. Let me know specifically what you are trying to get at.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Thank you for answering my question.

Your Welcome

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.

I voted.

 

[Led_Astray]

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think Jesus and love are the key to how I try to live. You know I use the bible. Let me know specifically what you are trying to get at.

If you are true to those tenets, then you are one of the good ones. Your beliefs harm nobody.

Unfortunately, as we know, there are huuuuuuuuuge numbers of people that call themselves Christians who do not, and who, under the umbrella of their beliefs, cause harm to people they disapprove of.

And for the most part, none of their fellow Christians appear to call them out on it.

 

[RocketLauncher]

Which brings me to an interesting point, actually, with regards to the Christians in this thread.

What rules do you personally follow, and where do they come from? And which instructions from the bible are you happy to ignore as not being relevant to you?

I was brought up a Christian. I wore many different religious hats; Presbyterian, High Anglican, Catholic, Unitarian and Judaism. I prefer to follow a Taoist philosophy of which many religions stole and bastardized ideas from. Which is cool cuz it's a pretty awesome philosophy and a truly balanced way of living.
I have faith, my faith may be different than others but it focuses on maintaining a universal balance. I recognize true faith in others by their actions and the love they have not only for themselves and other cultures but for other species, environments. Those willing to help the person in the cold with no coat, boots, bed or a meal. One must not forget that under the shabbiest coat a heart of pure gold may beat.

If you are true to those tenets, then you are one of the good ones. Your beliefs harm nobody.

TryHarder is a true Christian. Her approach is warm, understanding and inquisitive.

Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.

http://www.pmslweb.com/the-blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/14-nun-STFU-meme.jpg

 

[RocketLauncher]

http://i.redd.it/sjp7yy43sc331.png

 

[Fuzzy1975]

TryHarder is a true Christian. Her approach is warm, understanding and inquisitive.

I agree, but she seems in the minority on Lit as far as self professed Christians go.

 

[Led_Astray]

I agree, but she seems in the minority on Lit as far as self professed Christians go.

Not just on Lit, but in the world in general.

 

[ishtat]

The Pharasees that murdered Christ and the Disciples were also offended by their message and they kept spreading it. They tried to shut them up and when they couldn't they murdered them.
.

This statement is wrong - completely wrong. The Sanhedrin (Council of Jewish Elders) tried Jesus within the limits of the delegated authority they held from the Romans. The Sanhedrin was made up mainly of the Sadducees who were members of the aristocratic temple priesthood (recently offended over the money changers incident). The two leaders of the prosecution, Annas and Caiaphas were both Sadducees at the head of the priestly heirarchy.

The two men who spoke in Jesus' defence were Nicodemus - a Pharisee, and Joseph of Arimathea, a follower of Jesus.

Pilate's execution of Jesus was perfectly proper within the context of Roman Law and the Romans carried it out. It was nothing unusual, they had done the same many times before. The nonsense that the Jews killed Jesus usually identifies the accuser as a Catholic traditionalist which I doubt you are xfrodo.

The Pharisees most definitely did not kill Jesus, neither did the Jews; that was a Roman prerogative.

If you read the wiki article comparing Sadducees with Pharisees you will realize that Jesus' teaching was usually close to that of the Pharisees and consistently opposed to the Sadducees. These two Jewish groups had very different beliefs. The Sadducees did not believe in heaven or hell, they did not believe in a final judgement and they did not believe in a Messiah. The Pharisees believed in all of those.

In this case the Pharisees were the good guys!

 

[Led_Astray]

Who would win in a fight, Jesus or Thor?

Well, one of them is famous for getting nailed to bit of wood, and one of them is famous for having a hammer. So...

 

[Led_Astray]

I have never had someone of another faith get angry with me because I believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That is the cornerstone of the Christian faith. No Christ....No Christian. The people that have gotten angry or have been offended are those who have no belief in God or an afterlife at all. Why is that?

Just out of interest, can you give examples of when you told a person from another faith that you believed they were wrong?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I voted.

Good. Did you notice that not everyone voted the same as you did?

 

[Led_Astray]

Good. Did you notice that not everyone voted the same as you did?

I'm actually surprised that in this den of sin and iniquity as many people have voted for Jesus as actually have...

 

[Tryharder62]

Just out of interest, can you give examples of when you told a person from another faith that you believed they were wrong?

First of all, I want it noted that I cooked a big meal for my family yesterday. (It was pretty good) They are all still alive today so that's a positive. My cooking is.... well... a mystery.

I never tell anyone that their faith is wrong. I tell them why I believe the way I do and how my faith has worked in my life. It brings about very interesting conversations. I guess I look at myself like a seed planter. I leave it to God to do the watering.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I'm actually surprised that in this den of sin and iniquity as many people have voted for Jesus as actually have...

I do belong to other sites and those numbers are consistent to most of the sites I visit. Body Builders and Boxers seem to have the highest numbers for some reason. They really must care about their souls.

 

[Led_Astray]

I do belong to other sites and those numbers are consistent to most of the sites I visit. Body Builders and Boxers seem to have the highest numbers for some reason. They really must care about their souls.

Well, I guess after you have been hit in the head several times, Christianity might start to look reasonable.

 

[Led_Astray]

First of all, I want it noted that I cooked a big meal for my family yesterday. (It was pretty good) They are all still alive today so that's a positive. My cooking is.... well... a mystery.

I never tell anyone that their faith is wrong. I tell them why I believe the way I do and how my faith has worked in my life. It brings about very interesting conversations. I guess I look at myself like a seed planter. I leave it to God to do the watering.

Yeah, I was more interested in the idea that only atheists get angry.

I was kinda looking for some numbers just to see if that;s statistically relevant. I mean, if you have talked to 1 muslim and 20 atheists, its statistically irrelevant. But if you have talked to (for example) 100 Muslims, 100 Jews, 100 Sikhs, 100 Hindus and 100 atheists about your faith being the only way to get to heaven, and only the atheists got angry with you, then your point is both valid and interesting.

It seems odd to me that the atheists would be the ones getting angry, if all you are doing is explaining what you believe, as we literally have no dog in the fight. All the others listed believe you are wrong just as much as you believe they are wrong, and have a vested interest in converting people to their own faith (except maybe Orthodox Jews). Wheras as long as you are not forcing it on them, what you believe matters as much to an atheist as what colour underwear you are wearing.

All the others believe in a heaven and are going to be annoyed if told they are not going there because they don't believe the same as you. But atheists don't believe in heaven, so your statement that only you know the way is meaningless. Its like telling us if we don't do what you do, we won't be able to visit the emerald city and speak to the great Oz.

Perhaps it is because finding a Christian like yourself who is *not* involved in trying to force their faith on others is such a rare thing. We are so used to seeing it used as a tool to beat people with that we automatically get defensive, maybe.

 

[dolf]

I guess I look at myself like a seed planter. I leave it to God to do the watering.

I like this.

 

[Led_Astray]

I like this.

Kinda like the story of the two hermits who planted trees. (Olive trees, maybe, its been a few years.) I don't recall if its a parable, or told by somebody else in the bible, or part of the many writings by later Christians, though.

 

[dolf]

And led astray makes a good point. People with another faith are generally left alone. For most of my life i had a very poor view of Christians, because I'd only ever come across bullying, judgemental cunts who tried to force their views into the young. Frodo reminds me of them.

Since then I've met people who were decent and kind, and inspired me to at least read the Bible to see what makes them so happy.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

This statement is wrong - completely wrong. The Sanhedrin (Council of Jewish Elders) tried Jesus within the limits of the delegated authority they held from the Romans. The Sanhedrin was made up mainly of the Sadducees who were members of the aristocratic temple priesthood (recently offended over the money changers incident). The two leaders of the prosecution, Annas and Caiaphas were both Sadducees at the head of the priestly heirarchy.

The two men who spoke in Jesus' defence were Nicodemus - a Pharisee, and Joseph of Arimathea, a follower of Jesus.

Pilate's execution of Jesus was perfectly proper within the context of Roman Law and the Romans carried it out. It was nothing unusual, they had done the same many times before. The nonsense that the Jews killed Jesus usually identifies the accuser as a Catholic traditionalist which I doubt you are xfrodo.

The Pharisees most definitely did not kill Jesus, neither did the Jews; that was a Roman prerogative.

If you read the wiki article comparing Sadducees with Pharisees you will realize that Jesus' teaching was usually close to that of the Pharisees and consistently opposed to the Sadducees. These two Jewish groups had very different beliefs. The Sadducees did not believe in heaven or hell, they did not believe in a final judgement and they did not believe in a Messiah. The Pharisees believed in all of those.

In this case the Pharisees were the good guys!

Wrong. The Pharisees made up false charges against Christ to the point where Pontias Pilot sent Him to because he didn't want to deal with it. Herod couldn't find fault with Him so he sent Him back to Pilot. Pilot gave in to the people, but he knew Christ was innocent.

The Pharisees falsely accused Christ and the Romans carried out the execution. In the end, all men crucified Christ because of our sins and that's the real reason He allowed Himself to be killed. To reject that is the greatest insult to an all powerful God and will bring great damnation on those who don't accept His great Salvation.

Both the Pharisees and Sadducee's hated Christ.

 

[Tryharder62]

Yeah, I was more interested in the idea that only atheists get angry.

I was kinda looking for some numbers just to see if that;s statistically relevant. I mean, if you have talked to 1 muslim and 20 atheists, its statistically irrelevant. But if you have talked to (for example) 100 Muslims, 100 Jews, 100 Sikhs, 100 Hindus and 100 atheists about your faith being the only way to get to heaven, and only the atheists got angry with you, then your point is both valid and interesting.

It seems odd to me that the atheists would be the ones getting angry, if all you are doing is explaining what you believe, as we literally have no dog in the fight. All the others listed believe you are wrong just as much as you believe they are wrong, and have a vested interest in converting people to their own faith (except maybe Orthodox Jews). Wheras as long as you are not forcing it on them, what you believe matters as much to an atheist as what colour underwear you are wearing.

All the others believe in a heaven and are going to be annoyed if told they are not going there because they don't believe the same as you. But atheists don't believe in heaven, so your statement that only you know the way is meaningless. Its like telling us if we don't do what you do, we won't be able to visit the emerald city and speak to the great Oz.

Perhaps it is because finding a Christian like yourself who is *not* involved in trying to force their faith on others is such a rare thing. We are so used to seeing it used as a tool to beat people with that we automatically get defensive, maybe.

Well it seemed odd to me as well that atheists would get angry at all and that is why I asked. You bring up a good point though that made me take a deeper look. I think maybe more than the number of people in each group that I talk to, it might be the circumstance in which I talk with them. Part of my job is working with an interfaith group to bring certain health care options for the whole community. For example we may take blood pressures at the senior center, or give flu shots at the local food pantry. We are concentrating on health problems together. Most of the time when I talk to an atheist it is more concentrated on whether Christianity is true or not.

I have another question. It's for anyone - I don't want to put you on the spot. I had one atheist give me an answer that I really understood but I wondered if others felt the same. Do atheists have a spirituality?

 

[RocketLauncher]

Well it seemed odd to me as well that atheists would get angry at all and that is why I asked. You bring up a good point though that made me take a deeper look. I think maybe more than the number of people in each group that I talk to, it might be the circumstance in which I talk with them. Part of my job is working with an interfaith group to bring certain health care options for the whole community. For example we may take blood pressures at the senior center, or give flu shots at the local food pantry. We are concentrating on health problems together. Most of the time when I talk to an atheist it is more concentrated on whether Christianity is true or not.

I have another question. It's for anyone - I don't want to put you on the spot. I had one atheist give me an answer that I really understood but I wondered if others felt the same. Do atheists have a spirituality?

I don't consider myself an atheist, agnostic or religious person, i dislike labels. But, yes, I do have a type of spirituality, or faith, if you like. I have an holistic approach to life, nature, spirituality whatever you want to call it. The interconnectedness of everything.
Namaste, your inner beauty is a delight to behold.