How to get that magical 'H'?

[EvelynEden]

Hello all,

(heads up, this may be a stupid question, fair warning)

So I did get to wondering recently about peoples experiences with that little 'H' that decorates some of our stories- I'm not looking for a guide on how to get it, I've accepted the fact that not a lot of my work will wear that particular crown but I was more so curious about what it says about your work and what you have found it to mean?

I'm probably being a little too confusing in my delivery of this question- what I mean is, what have you found has gotten you to that score- certain themes, certain characters, story length, delivery, setting etc?

I'm not looking for a Shakespearean monologue about the psychology of man, I'm just wondering if there are some common traits within those stories that have been marked, that has interested you particularly.

I've noticed that certain genres really increase my score (a bit obvious I know) but I have also noticed when I played with themes of BDSM in certain categories, that really seemed to spike the ratings, surprisingly. I feel like it was an interesting look into the readers there.

Anyway, if this babbling makes any sense at all to anyone and you are still somehow willing to answer, I'm looking forward to hearing what you have found!

 

[ChloeTzang]

In the end, it boils down to a good storyline, characters that resonate with readers, and hot sex, altho even that’s not wholly necessary.

 

[EvelynEden]

In the end, it boils down to a good storyline, characters that resonate with readers, and hot sex, altho even that’s not wholly necessary.

Very true, thanks for your comment

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there are two different things one has to keep in mind.

I agree with Chloe that a good storyline, good characters, and hot sex will help get your story over the 4.5 hump.

But no matter how good your story is, it has to do something else: fit the category in which it's published, and not piss off readers. Readers here go to stories in specific categories because they are looking for something specific. If you give them something different, even if it's very, very good, you won't get a good score.

The stories I've written that have not cracked 4.5 are the ones that don't fit the mold, or they're the 750-word stories. I don't think there's a huge difference in quality between my low-rated stories and my high-rated stories.

None of this is to recommend that you should write stories just to please readers and get a good score. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't, and I've never regretted the choices I've made, whatever the scoring result. It's nice to get a high score, but it doesn't matter, if that makes sense.

If you're trying to get the red H, here, in my opinion, are the top things you can do:

1. Fit your story to the needs of the readers of the category.
2. Use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. In particular, for Pete's sake take 20 minutes to read a How To article and figure out how to handle dialogue. It's so easy yet so many people get this wrong.
3. Think about your characters before you start. Think about their traits. Try to write about them as if they are real people, not cartoon bimbo sluts and studs.
4. Have sufficient buildup to the sex.
5. Don't rush the sex scene.
6. Make your story at least 8000 words.
7. Read some stories with red Hs. Analyze them. Ask yourself, as objectively as possible, what makes them different from yours?

 

[EvelynEden]

I think there are two different things one has to keep in mind.

I agree with Chloe that a good storyline, good characters, and hot sex will help get your story over the 4.5 hump.

But no matter how good your story is, it has to do something else: fit the category in which it's published, and not piss off readers. Readers here go to stories in specific categories because they are looking for something specific. If you give them something different, even if it's very, very good, you won't get a good score.

The stories I've written that have not cracked 4.5 are the ones that don't fit the mold, or they're the 750-word stories. I don't think there's a huge difference in quality between my low-rated stories and my high-rated stories.

None of this is to recommend that you should write stories just to please readers and get a good score. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't, and I've never regretted the choices I've made, whatever the scoring result. It's nice to get a high score, but it doesn't matter, if that makes sense.

If you're trying to get the red H, here, in my opinion, are the top things you can do:

1. Fit your story to the needs of the readers of the category.
2. Use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. In particular, for Pete's sake take 20 minutes to read a How To article and figure out how to handle dialogue. It's so easy yet so many people get this wrong.
3. Think about your characters before you start. Think about their traits. Try to write about them as if they are real people, not cartoon bimbo sluts and studs.
4. Have sufficient buildup to the sex.
5. Don't rush the sex scene.
6. Make your story at least 8000 words.
7. Read some stories with red Hs. Analyze them. Ask yourself, as objectively as possible, what makes them different from yours?

Ahh, you have some really fantastic points, thank you. It's really interesting to read so thanks for spending the time it took to type it out.
I'm curious- have you ever had it where you've see one of your stories you really really loved not hit that mark, and reversely, a story of yours you didn't hate but didn't particularly think deserved a high score reach that 'H' status?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I’d agree with Chloe and Simon.

Not sure though that there’s a magic wand coming with 8,000 words; I’ve done very well with stories with much less, as low as 4,000 in some cases. That said, longer stories give you time to develop the plot, characterization, etc - all those good things Chloe and Simon suggest for success. In other words, you can score big with a very short story, but you have to work much harder at it.

To their suggestions, I’d add a couple of my own:

1. Get a thesaurus or find one on the net. Endless repetitions of the same words makes a story less interesting.
   
2. Go OCD on proof-reading.
   
3. Write the story, then put it away for a week or two. It’s amazing how many improvements will suggest themselves, how many errors become apparent when you look at it with ‘fresh’ eyes.
   
4. Consider an editor or at least a beta reader. What looks fine to you might not to somebody else.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm curious- have you ever had it where you've see one of your stories you really really loved not hit that mark, and reversely, a story of yours you didn't hate but didn't particularly think deserved a high score reach that 'H' status?

Yes.

The first chapter of my 8-chapter Hot Mom incest series, which I really liked writing, has been parked at 4.49 for about two years. I keep thinking it will get over the hump, but it doesn't. All the other chapters are over 4.5, and one of them is as high as 4.77. I don't think there's much difference in quality between the chapters, but I think I understand why the first one's stuck. First, it's the first chapter, and the first chapter is usually the lowest-rated, and second, it's the least "hot" of the chapters, since it's a slow burn series where the action gets hotter from one chapter to the next.

My story A Bikini With A Mind Of Its Own has never come close to 4.5, although it's done very well in terms of readers and favorites. It was one of my favorite stories to write. I think the reason its score isn't as good is that it's offbeat -- it has magical, whimsical elements that some readers like but that some readers don't. But I wouldn't change anything, even though the score suffered.

The story that took me most by surprise in terms of success was Late Night On The Loveseat With Mom. I had been writing here for about six months, and I decided that I would write a story with the sole intent to try to get as many views as possible. I did some research on what stories were most popular. I wrote it quickly, by my standards: it only took me about seven days from conception to submission. I threw everything I could think of into it that would shamelessly draw as many readers as possible. I did whatever I could to pander to reader tastes. And it worked -- beyond all expectations. It spent two months at number 1 on the 12-month most-viewed toplist. Its score isn't spectacularly high, because it's not very special as a story. But it did get a lot of views (now at 808,000 views and rising), and it's around number 130 on the all-time most favorited story list, and rising fast.

My point is, you can succeed at playing the game here if you want to and you are willing to pay close attention to what's going on.

One other tip, if you want a red H: Don't publish in Loving Wives.

 

[Ada Stuart]

Hello all,

I'm probably being a little too confusing in my delivery of this question- what I mean is, what have you found has gotten you to that score- certain themes, certain characters, story length, delivery, setting etc?

Ah, yes. I totally adore those H's, and they tend to come when:

- the story has at least one sex scene (if it's a chapter without sex, they doesn't come that easily)
- the story contains a lot of sexual tension/buildup. If the tension isn't there, I add it by look, scent, fantasizing, dreaming, etc. My "Lessons in love" story has about nine chapters without any "real sex" as one reader pointed out. Still, all chapters have an H, which was a little surprising
- some BDSM elements can work, yes. But, as soon as you cross the border to "MeToo" some readers are gone
- you post in the right category
- the story has a storyline, not just sex
- the longer stories are more likely to get an H than shorter stories
- you please your male readers by including descriptions of what they look like, particularly the women
- you please your female readers by adding emotions (generally speaking)

There are a lot of exceptions to these "rules", but this seems to work for mine in the categories I post in, which is mostly Romance and Non-con, so it might not work for other categories.

Still, after a while, the readers that like your kind of stories will find you, and then those H's come more easily - or at least you learn what works and what doesn't work in each category

Ada

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not looking for a Shakespearean monologue about the psychology of man, I'm just wondering if there are some common traits within those stories that have been marked, that has interested you particularly.

My response to this question is based on a portfolio of eighty something stories/chapters, just shy of a million words, in (if I remember the last time I counted correctly) about a dozen categories, and of these, 75% are Red H (and some of those fairly high scores). So it's a fairly solid portfolio, in that regard.

Many of the comments that go with the higher scored stories have been along the lines of, "outside the norm around here..." "something new..." "different..." "unusual..." which tells me that part of my "success formula" (if there is such a thing, which I don't think there is), is not writing predominantly single category content, not writing stereotypical content, not writing cliche, but writing something different, being willing to experiment, going outside the box, being atypical.

Usually, one would think that "giving the punters what they want" would be the success formula (in which case I'd just go write incest stories), but in my case, it seems to be more, "give the punters something else, that they didn't know they wanted." It's kind of nice, being rewarded for being iconoclastic. I must be doing something right, or else my readers wouldn't rate me .

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I'm not looking for a guide on how to get it, I've accepted the fact that not a lot of my work will wear that particular crown but I was more so curious about what it says about your work and what you have found it to mean?

I'm probably being a little too confusing in my delivery of this question- what I mean is, what have you found has gotten you to that score- certain themes, certain characters, story length, delivery, setting etc?

Hi EE,

What red Hs say about my work: Simply that a minimum of ten readers voted the story to a minimum average vote of 4.5. That’s it. That’s all the H means. It doesn’t mean the story is better than others. It doesn’t mean that I’m a popular author. It doesn’t mean that my story has good sex scenes. It doesn’t mean my story is well written. It also doesn’t mean that I’ve pandered to reader expectations. It doesn’t mean that I (or any other author) have insider knowledge on what works and what doesn’t. It just means enough people voted, and voted 4s and 5s.

What have I found the H to mean: Not much. I don’t think it’s significantly increased my readership or following to have red Hs. I’ve had Hall of Fame/top list recognition and had the all-time #1 story for a period, and I don’t think those had any significant impact on my reads/votes either.

I think it largely has to do with how Literotica operates. Readers can come here to get specifically what they’re looking for, and have many tools onsite (like the story search function, author favorites/follow, top lists etc) and have many outside search sources (Twitter, Reddit, Google search etc).... those tools aren’t related to the red Hs, and I personally doubt people are looking for stories specifically because of them versus looking solely based on their personal interests.

OTOH, I’ve had significant negative experiences with being harassed and bullied by other “anonymous” authors (I assume other authors; why would readers care whether my scores are high?). Those experiences caused me to question 1) whether self-publishing was even worth it, and 2) whether it’s worth allowing voting. I decided to still allow voting because I assume that the red H has a minor marketing advantage over stories without one.

Where red Hs have been meaningful: The only correlation I’ve seen (and I don’t know that it’s necessarily meaningful) is that writers cold contact me for help: not because they’ve actually read/like my writing or my editing profile, but because they want red Hs too.

What’s gotten me 4.5s and better: Firstly, sweeps. Secondly, a core readership that both reads and votes on my stories; I think that’s both critical and a blessing because many readers don’t vote and many voters don’t read. I think it also helps with votes to simply stay off the radar and not point out or discuss my scores.

 

[ElectricBlue]

OTOH, I’ve had significant negative experiences with being harassed and bullied by other “anonymous” authors (I assume other authors; why would readers care whether my scores are high?). Those experiences caused me to question 1) whether self-publishing was even worth it, and 2) whether it’s worth allowing voting. I decided to still allow voting because I assume that the red H has a minor marketing advantage over stories without one.

This comment is saddening. I've not once been harassed or bullied by anyone - sure, my stories get typical troll patterns from time to time, more so when I'm silly enough to enter a contest or two, but I don't consider those to be personalised attacks, just stupidity. I wonder if you're copping gender based hassles? It's not the first time I've seen female authors report they're taking heat, just because they're women. It's part of the misogynistic under-current I see at Lit from time to time, which is depressing.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I wonder if you're copping gender based hassles? It's not the first time I've seen female authors report they're taking heat, just because they're women. It's part of the misogynistic under-current I see at Lit from time to time, which is depressing.

No. I’ve received one email—one—that asked to see pictures of my tits; interestingly enough, the email was from a very popular, “respected” Literotica author and sent directly from his email address without any interest or attempt at anonymity. I’ve received far more emails telling me, in various ways and degrees, to stop because I’m shit and my writing is shit. I know how to distinguish, and find it odd that you jump to the conflation that bullying per my writing must have had to do with my gender.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Hi EE,.
OTOH, I’ve had significant negative experiences with being harassed and bullied by other “anonymous” authors (I assume other authors; why would readers care whether my scores are high?)

It could well be other writers. There have been, I hear, some pretty nasty ‘score wars’ in past.

OTOH, I see no reason to exclude the existence of mere (and I stress that word) trolls - cretins who, being unable to create themselves, compensate by vandalizing things done by others. Anonymous drivelling here is no different than scrawling obscenities on walls or fresh concrete.

In any case, you write a good stick. Your solid scores are better guides than the drooling spewings of anonymous misanthropes.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

It could well be other writers. There have been, I hear, some pretty nasty ‘score wars’ in past.

OTOH, I see no reason to exclude the existence of mere (and I stress that word) trolls - cretins who, being unable to create themselves, compensate by vandalizing things done by others....

thanks TP

You're absolutely right that it's a rebuttable assumption (which I tried to acknowledge in my comment, but want to restate in case it wasn't clear). When it initially happened, I contacted the site administrators for help and eventually, it turned out the harassing emails were coming from a registered (another author's) user account. But subsequent incidents were completely independent of that one, and could have come from literally anyone. Luckily, Literotica is great in that we authors have a lot of control over anonymous feedback.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I’ve received far more emails telling me, in various ways and degrees, to stop because I’m shit and my writing is shit. I know how to distinguish, and find it odd that you jump to the conflation that bullying per my writing must have had to do with my gender.

I'm not jumping to anything - I was only wondering. Over the years women have often reported getting hassled when men don't, that's all it was.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So I did get to wondering recently about peoples experiences with that little 'H' that decorates some of our stories- I'm not looking for a guide on how to get it, I've accepted the fact that not a lot of my work will wear that particular crown but I was more so curious about what it says about your work and what you have found it to mean?

I'm probably being a little too confusing in my delivery of this question- what I mean is, what have you found has gotten you to that score- certain themes, certain characters, story length, delivery, setting etc?

(1) write a good story
(2) winnow out the wrong kind of readers (i.e. folk who aren't going to enjoy it) through story length, informative taglines, etc.
(3) attract the right kind of readers (e.g. by writing other stories)
(4) not posting in LW ;-)

Every time I post something new, I see a small uptick in views on my other stories. That will be readers who read the new thing, liked my style, and wanted to see more like it, so they're likely to boost the other stuff as well. Stories of mine that didn't break 4.5 when they first came out have gradually been pulled up over that line by this effect.

Beyond basic technical stuff like spelling/punctuation/grammar, "good story" is subjective, and there are different ways to achieve it. There's never going to be a story that everybody likes; IMHO the best way is to write what interests you (rather than focus-grouping it!) and then make it easy for readers who like that sort of thing to find it, and for others to avoid it.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I'm not jumping to anything - I was only wondering. Over the years women have often reported getting hassled when men don't, that's all it was.

Gotcha. I wouldn't know about the frequency related to gender, or whether there is any. Beachbum1958 has mentioned quite a few times receiving similar emails, and some were far more vitriolic and threatening, to the extent the communications were sent to police authorities. I remember him mentioning that because of the seriousness of the situation; the emails I've received were nowhere on that level. It's not an issue I deal with anymore, since turning off anonymous feedback.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Gotcha. I wouldn't know about the frequency related to gender, or whether there is any. Beachbum1958 has mentioned quite a few times receiving similar emails, and some were far more vitriolic and threatening, to the extent the communications were sent to police authorities. I remember him mentioning that because of the seriousness of the situation; the emails I've received were nowhere on that level. It's not an issue I deal with anymore, since turning off anonymous feedback.

I must be lucky, or fly beneath the radar when it comes to negative feedback, because for me it's very rare. Maybe I just write nice warm vanilla puddings and don't upset the category police with their, "Don't write about that, I don't like it" attitudes. Although for one story recently I was accused of making the third course too sickly sweet, which I took as a back-handed compliment, because I gather the commenter had sated themselves on the first two courses. But that's something different to the garbage you're talking about.

It's a shame you've had to turn anons off - some of my very best feedback is from anons, I can't see myself ever turning it off.

 

[lovecraft68]

My advice is...

Just write your story as you want to write it and don't fixate on the Red H.

Why? Because its pretty much meaningless.

Granted, there are readers who will look at a story based on whether or not it has that H, and a high enough score might keep you on some top lists and get some better visibility, but there are also plenty of readers who don't pick their stories by score or the lists.

But its not the be all end all and wondering how to get them and what you should and shouldn't do, etc...is going to change you're writing because you're wondering if you're ticking people off or hitting the spots.

I wrote on here for about a year before I ever came to the forums and I always say I'm glad for that because all I was focused on what I was writing and not sweating scores.

There is a lot of score and "H" obsession here. Countless threads just like this one, people listing the do's and don't's of categories, people spending hours compiling statistics and trying to come up with formulas etc...

But guess what?

We all get paid the same, whether our scores are 3.50 or 4.85. Just have fun writing and do it your way.

Because....that will lead to H's at some point because the more you write, the more readers will see you, your fan base grows and then you get those people who will give you a 5 because they've liked a lot of your stories and even if a few are lacking they're forgiving.

Review....pushing for them will mess with your writing. Obsessing over them will screw with your head if you don't get them.

Writing your way will sooner or later lead to them.

Think of it in terms of being the guy who gets the girl because while other idiots are fawning over her like dogs, you're just sitting back like you could not care less...that's when the girl says "wow, what's that guy got going on over there"

Okay, done rambling.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I have no idea why more than half of my submissions have a red H. According to my lady love, my only good sex scenes are the really awkward ones.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not jumping to anything - I was only wondering. Over the years women have often reported getting hassled when men don't, that's all it was.

I wonder about this, too, because I've never been harassed. I've received comments on my stories that were scathing -- some hilariously so. But nothing that would constitute harassment.

 

[vanmyers86]

Generally speaking, I write to please myself and am happy when others enjoy my stories too. I don't see a pattern for the ratings for my catalogue - all feature smart, interesting (to me, anyway) people who like sex and seek emotional connection. My highest-rated story has the most understated sex scene of any of mine; the lowest rated has the most sex. (I expect I entered it in the wrong category, but it was a contest entry and I don't feel any great urge to resubmit it. Something has to come in last!)

I enjoyed writing all of them, and I will keep at it until it's no longer fun or I run out of ideas - whichever comes first.

So that's my story. We all publish here with different goals - and I hope you meet yours, and have fun doing it!

 

[RejectReality]

6. Make your story at least 8000 words.

I'd actually put that bar at around 5000 words, or a little shy of 1.5 Lit pages. It's only when you're at 1 page or barely more that it seems to hurt your score or draw a significant number of "too short" comments. Once you hit that barrier of a half page beyond the first, you're typically golden.

 

[SimonDoom]

So that's my story. We all publish here with different goals - and I hope you meet yours, and have fun doing it!

Probably the best thing anyone can tell someone here.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Probably the best thing anyone can tell someone here.

Wisely said.