How to Critique A Friend's Poetry

[bflagsst]

I think others have mentioned this, the difficulty of criticizing a friend's poetry. They know you write poems so they finally get the courage to show you theirs and actually say the words, "I'd like honest feedback and criticism, tell me what you think." Maybe some go so far as to say, "You can be rough if you want." and I am usually pretty rough when someone I don't know asks for harsh criticism.

It's easier glossing over prose, poetry is too artful to just say, "Yes, it's healthy, keep doing what you're doing." when what they're doing is terrible in terms of poetry. So, what do you do or what would you do if a very good friend, maybe someone who's in a bad emotional state, shows you their poems and asks for critique?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Difficult one are you talking about on here or friends in general? A couple of my friends online but not Lit have just seen some of mine and both said they were amazed I could write like that which is a bit of a backhanded compliment when you think about it! When it comes to other friends poems which have been more or less rhyming ditties that don't even scan I am afraid I have chickened out and made some encouraging noises and left them to it. If you are talking about on Lit that can be even more problematic I've had my head snapped off just critiqueing a strangers poem. If it's someone I know well who won't take offense then I think I will point out it's shortcomings although saying that I am guilty of not doing it on the comments section whcih I think is too cruel. Someone in a fragile state? Leave well alone or if they insist keep it verrrrry low tone as what's the point of upsetting anyone just for the sake of a few words they have written.

 

[bflagsst]

Difficult one are you talking about on here or friends in general? A couple of my friends online but not Lit have just seen some of mine and both said they were amazed I could write like that which is a bit of a backhanded compliment when you think about it! When it comes to other friends poems which have been more or less rhyming ditties that don't even scan I am afraid I have chickened out and made some encouraging noises and left them to it. If you are talking about on Lit that can be even more problematic I've had my head snapped off just critiqueing a strangers poem. If it's someone I know well who won't take offense then I think I will point out it's shortcomings although saying that I am guilty of not doing it on the comments section whcih I think is too cruel. Someone in a fragile state? Leave well alone or if they insist keep it verrrrry low tone as what's the point of upsetting anyone just for the sake of a few words they have written.

I have one friend specific in mind, out of nowhere he sends me all these poems and asks my serious opinion. Other people in everyday world often send me or show me their poems and ask for critique. When the poems aren't anything it's pretty easy to just say, "Keep on truckin', try to use words in a fresh way, drop the rhyme." But then they might press and ask for more detailed criticism. And that's where I'm at now with this specific friend I've known since grade school. He wants like a serious critique, but he's not in the best frame of mind aka suicidal from what I can tell.

I definitely don't try to upset people unless they seem like they've grown to big for their britches, want to present their work as untouchable excellence in poetry. Everyone tries writing poetry at some point, everyone I know knows I wrote poems. I don't like knocking down a human being's artistic endeavor impulse, but when they keep asking for my opinion I don't wanna feel like some phony baloney 1950s newspaper critic at the Sun Times in Vermont.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I have one friend specific in mind, out of nowhere he sends me all these poems and asks my serious opinion. Other people in everyday world often send me or show me their poems and ask for critique. When the poems aren't anything it's pretty easy to just say, "Keep on truckin', try to use words in a fresh way, drop the rhyme." But then they might press and ask for more detailed criticism. And that's where I'm at now with this specific friend I've known since grade school. He wants like a serious critique, but he's not in the best frame of mind aka suicidal from what I can tell.

I definitely don't try to upset people unless they seem like they've grown to big for their britches, want to present their work as untouchable excellence in poetry. Everyone tries writing poetry at some point, everyone I know knows I wrote poems. I don't like knocking down a human being's artistic endeavor impulse, but when they keep asking for my opinion I don't wanna feel like some phony baloney 1950s newspaper critic at the Sun Times in Vermont.

Do I take it that his poems aren't that hot? I suppose you could try skipping round it by saying they aren't the sort of poems that you would write yourself so perhaps you aren't the right person to critique them ...... depends how astute your friend is as to whether he would accept that sort of answer. You could try rewriting a bit and send it back saying this is how you would approach the subject but that everyones poetry is in the long run their own voice and what they are happy with. If one persons outpourings help just getting it down on paper can be healing for them but I don't envy you your dilemma. All I can say is put aside your poets head as to what is right or wrong and be kind my friend

 

[bflagsst]

Do I take it that his poems aren't that hot? I suppose you could try skipping round it by saying they aren't the sort of poems that you would write yourself so perhaps you aren't the right person to critique them ...... depends how astute your friend is as to whether he would accept that sort of answer. You could try rewriting a bit and send it back saying this is how you would approach the subject but that everyones poetry is in the long run their own voice and what they are happy with. If one persons outpourings help just getting it down on paper can be healing for them but I don't envy you your dilemma. All I can say is put aside your poets head as to what is right or wrong and be kind my friend

Thanks. I got another email from him a few minutes ago, I don't think I have to go into why his poems don't really work.

 

[champagne1982]

So, that being said. I'd first ask if my friend would like my opinion on the artistic aspects of the pieces or if they simply want an idea of what can be done to improve the mechanics of the writing. If they're wanting an opinion, I'd explain that although your taste may differ somewhat, that you can see strengths and weaknesses. Take a poem and highlight its meter, rhythm, diction or what is best in it; challenge your friend to incorporate each strength in one into all of the others; explain that even though there are good points, many of these are balanced with a weakness. Show him the bits that don't work, maybe then, ask if he understands that no matter how "good" a poem is, there can always be something done to improve it.

If they want a critique with emphasis on mechanics, you could always suggest a book but then still do the same as I've described above. Be sure to recommend that practice always makes better. I think the trick with reading poems from friends is to hear what the friend really wants. Sometimes, a simple suggestion that gives them a direction to work towards is all they'll require... But I wouldn't set myself up as editor; there are far too many preconceptions and expectations to deal with besides, maybe reading poetry that is closer to really personal than you'd like to be.

 

[wildsweetone]

just my thoughts...

be gentle with your friend... always treat them with respect when critiquing their writing. choose only one or two points that they can work on, rather than smothering them by telling them everything is wrong with their poem and pointing every error out. ensure that they are fully aware you are critiquing their writing, not them, themselves (some writers do not have the ability to step back from their writing, especially if it's something that has great meaning for them - be aware of this and adjust your critique as necessary).

sure, anyone can give a rip split or bust kind of critique, but that generally leads to discouragement and stops a writer dead on their writing journey.

maybe ask specifically exactly what they require from you as a critiquer, before you give them your opinion, that'll help guide you to the way to say whatever needs to be said.

you can say things like 'Have you tried this...?' 'What if this word was placed here, how would you finish the line?' 'Is there are reason for the way you set your poem out like this?'

by asking questions, you can lead your friend into thinking further on how and why they are writing the way they write. you can also show them some published poets' writings. that can lead for interesting discussions when they say they like how something is written and what to know how to do it that way.

like i said, just thoughts. good luck. i'm sure you'll be encouraging and helpful.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I haven't been on the giving end for a long time, but could wonder if some positive feedback is others being nice, or is a true compliment. Sometimes can tell that certain lines stuck the reader, at pthers unsure. I just take it at face value.

 

[LaRocha]

I think it's easiest just to lie to people who are horrible at poetry and tell them you like their work. Most aren't going to continue writing it, those who do will get better. There's not much you can do or say to help another poet write a better poem. But those who are already skilled is a different question. It's your duty to tell them when they've written a bad poem, bad line. Unless it's a female poet, I'll always just tell them it's great because I want every female on the planet to like me.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I haven't been on the giving end for a long time, but could wonder if some positive feedback is others being nice, or is a true compliment. Sometimes can tell that certain lines stuck the reader, at pthers unsure. I just take it at face value.

I think on here you have to learn who are the honest ones and who are the bletherers

I think it's easiest just to lie to people who are horrible at poetry and tell them you like their work. Most aren't going to continue writing it, those who do will get better. There's not much you can do or say to help another poet write a better poem. But those who are already skilled is a different question. It's your duty to tell them when they've written a bad poem, bad line. Unless it's a female poet, I'll always just tell them it's great because I want every female on the planet to like me.

Probably wasn't meant to but I find that very condescending as in you're such a cuty pie even if your poetry is shite

 

[bflagsst]

Thanks for all your replies.

The immediate problem isn't really about hurting his feelings because he writes crap poetry, but how do I talk to him and maybe get him more interested in poetry as opposed to him feeling isolated and suicidal. He lives across the country, everyone he knows lives on my side of the country. Maybe this message board isn't the best place to discuss this, but I think if someone's interested in art and writing and active in the hobby they'll have something to think about besides how horrible their situation is. I've just said I like this and this, and keep writing. I want to think of a way to get him to share more with me through his writing, encourage him with valuable feedback so maybe he'll spend more time on it.

 

[Epmd607]

Thanks for all your replies.

The immediate problem isn't really about hurting his feelings because he writes crap poetry, but how do I talk to him and maybe get him more interested in poetry as opposed to him feeling isolated and suicidal. He lives across the country, everyone he knows lives on my side of the country. Maybe this message board isn't the best place to discuss this, but I think if someone's interested in art and writing and active in the hobby they'll have something to think about besides how horrible their situation is. I've just said I like this and this, and keep writing. I want to think of a way to get him to share more with me through his writing, encourage him with valuable feedback so maybe he'll spend more time on it.

There's no reason to try and trick someone into sharing, no need for a master plan. Most folks who let you know they are depressed and suicidal do so because they want you to listen to them. I would just ask him to go into detail about why he thinks his life turned out so bad. Maybe he can do that in story form.

 

[The_Fool]

You know, I fully understand what you are feeling through this poem. It's obvious that what you have written is deeply felt. The problem is that some of your techiques are not what is expected in the world of poetry. I would suggest that you hold on to what you have written and do a little exploration into what others have written and see if you can find something that rings true to your feelings. If you would like, I'll try to find some examples I think would point you in the right direction.

 

[ishtat]

I think it's easiest just to lie to people who are horrible at poetry and tell them you like their work. Most aren't going to continue writing it, those who do will get better. There's not much you can do or say to help another poet write a better poem. But those who are already skilled is a different question. It's your duty to tell them when they've written a bad poem, bad line. Unless it's a female poet, I'll always just tell them it's great because I want every female on the planet to like me.

I was told a while back that my poetry was "crap," maybe that was a lie too?

 

[bflagsst]

I was told a while back that my poetry was "crap," maybe that was a lie too?

No pouting in my thread.

No alts in my thread.

 

[bflagsst]

You know, I fully understand what you are feeling through this poem. It's obvious that what you have written is deeply felt. The problem is that some of your techiques are not what is expected in the world of poetry. I would suggest that you hold on to what you have written and do a little exploration into what others have written and see if you can find something that rings true to your feelings. If you would like, I'll try to find some examples I think would point you in the right direction.

This is more or less how I approach my friends when they share a poem with me and it's not very good. A little more buddy to buddy though, less empathetic speech.

 

[bflagsst]

There's no reason to try and trick someone into sharing, no need for a master plan. Most folks who let you know they are depressed and suicidal do so because they want you to listen to them. I would just ask him to go into detail about why he thinks his life turned out so bad. Maybe he can do that in story form.

That's a little contradictory. "Tell me why you're depressed, I'm listening. If that doesn't work for you, write me a story veiled in symbol, metaphor, and deviant vampires, explaining your issue you'd like assistance with. Beep."

I'm trying to get help from his other friends, in terms of his isolation, but no one else wants the hassle because everyone's too busy being important young adults with bright futures. When you actually tell someone, "Yes, your former best friend is openly suicidal, please call him or send him a message. You want proof? Okay, read these poems." they still want more evidence of his state of mind if they're going to go through the trouble of writing a couple emails.

 

[ishtat]

No alts in my thread.

?? Don't get it.

 

[bflagsst]

?? Don't get it.

That statement was directed at someone else. The first part about pouting was directed at you though.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

who's the alt?

 

[butters]

I think it's easiest just to lie to people who are horrible at poetry and tell them you like their work. Most aren't going to continue writing it, those who do will get better. There's not much you can do or say to help another poet write a better poem. But those who are already skilled is a different question. It's your duty to tell them when they've written a bad poem, bad line. Unless it's a female poet, I'll always just tell them it's great because I want every female on the planet to like me.

that's awful.

if you can't find anything positive to say about it at all, maybe make some constructive remarks on how to improve without delving too harshly into why it's so shitty. Lying to someone about their writing is cheap. As a person, all you have is your word. Now how can anyone trust your opinions if you offer them, however genuinely?

 

[butters]

Thanks for all your replies.

The immediate problem isn't really about hurting his feelings because he writes crap poetry, but how do I talk to him and maybe get him more interested in poetry as opposed to him feeling isolated and suicidal. He lives across the country, everyone he knows lives on my side of the country. Maybe this message board isn't the best place to discuss this, but I think if someone's interested in art and writing and active in the hobby they'll have something to think about besides how horrible their situation is. I've just said I like this and this, and keep writing. I want to think of a way to get him to share more with me through his writing, encourage him with valuable feedback so maybe he'll spend more time on it.

is he writing crap poetry because he's never going to be any good at it, or writing crap poetry because he's in those early stages when almost all of us write crap poetry?

if it's the first, encourage him to write it down anyway, since it's a place for him to vent and express. maybe he's showing you these so you understand how he's feeling rather than really being interested in its value as poetry per se. In which case, discuss the issues his writing raises - you know him, we don't and maybe he explores the depths in this angsty fashion more than he would act on those feelings?

if it's the second, depending on the style of material he's writing, maybe research a few online poetry sites suited to where he is right now though with writers there who'll encourage his development as a writer.

good luck with this one

 

[vrosej10]

I think others have mentioned this, the difficulty of criticizing a friend's poetry. They know you write poems so they finally get the courage to show you theirs and actually say the words, "I'd like honest feedback and criticism, tell me what you think." Maybe some go so far as to say, "You can be rough if you want." and I am usually pretty rough when someone I don't know asks for harsh criticism.

It's easier glossing over prose, poetry is too artful to just say, "Yes, it's healthy, keep doing what you're doing." when what they're doing is terrible in terms of poetry. So, what do you do or what would you do if a very good friend, maybe someone who's in a bad emotional state, shows you their poems and asks for critique?

Much to my surprise I have been informed by classmates at uni that I am good at giving gentle but useful critique, so here goes.

1. 
   First thing you must do is sandwich criticism between compliments. 'I love you theme, but I think maybe you need to work on the form, but I think this can be a great poem'
   Focus on the technical aspects of the poem. don't criticise the subject matter. This is more important if the person is writing about deeply personal subject matter. Sooner or later someone is going to tell them it is overly sentimental, but it better it not come from you.
   Offer them ways to improve the poem whilst emphasizing you like the bones of the work.
   be gentle. Ask yourself how you would have reacted when you first started out to brutal honesty.

If they attack you after this I'd be surprised.

 

[vrosej10]

I think others have mentioned this, the difficulty of criticizing a friend's poetry. They know you write poems so they finally get the courage to show you theirs and actually say the words, "I'd like honest feedback and criticism, tell me what you think." Maybe some go so far as to say, "You can be rough if you want." and I am usually pretty rough when someone I don't know asks for harsh criticism.

It's easier glossing over prose, poetry is too artful to just say, "Yes, it's healthy, keep doing what you're doing." when what they're doing is terrible in terms of poetry. So, what do you do or what would you do if a very good friend, maybe someone who's in a bad emotional state, shows you their poems and asks for critique?

Much to my surprise I have been informed by classmates at uni that I am good at giving gentle but useful critique, so here goes.

1. 
   First thing you must do is sandwich criticism between compliments. 'I love you theme, but I think maybe you need to work on the form, but I think this can be a great poem'
   
   Focus on the technical aspects of the poem. don't criticise the subject matter. This is more important if the person is writing about deeply personal subject matter. Sooner or later someone is going to tell them it is overly sentimental, but it better it not come from you.
   
   Offer them ways to improve the poem whilst emphasizing you like the bones of the work.
   be gentle. Ask yourself how you would have reacted when you first started out to brutal honesty.

If they attack you after this I'd be surprised.

 

[vrosej10]

Thanks for all your replies.

The immediate problem isn't really about hurting his feelings because he writes crap poetry, but how do I talk to him and maybe get him more interested in poetry as opposed to him feeling isolated and suicidal. He lives across the country, everyone he knows lives on my side of the country. Maybe this message board isn't the best place to discuss this, but I think if someone's interested in art and writing and active in the hobby they'll have something to think about besides how horrible their situation is. I've just said I like this and this, and keep writing. I want to think of a way to get him to share more with me through his writing, encourage him with valuable feedback so maybe he'll spend more time on it.

I missed this comment before. If he is really depressed, poetry may not be the best because it tends to lead to lots of introspection, not the best thing for someone seriously depressed possibly suicidal. On the other hand, if you can get him to write on happy topic deliberately it might be useful.