How to begin...

[geronimo_appleby]

^^^^50 SHADES OF GAY author.

dumb as shit trolling cunt. ^^^^

 

[StarryEyed665]

You seem to speak (type) better English than quite a few people, who just have no excuse, and it's great to see you want to improve! I unfortunately have no other words of wisdom to offer, apart from just parroting some of what's already been said. I feel like reading is always the best way of developing your writing, making note of examples you come across? Maybe you could post some of it on here (or another thread), or just some sentences you feel you're really struggling with and let other members give their suggestions? I would offer to edit; alas, I'm not too great with deadlines either . . . hopefully you'll find a reliable one soon

Blegh, sorry, I'm not much help xP Good luck!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well, that's helpful, but in the end just changes "She" to "Her". Itried using different words like
"She"
"The woman"
"The blond girl"
"the smart man"
and so on...but it gest boring the same . Actually, I also think it's not good for the third-person subjective view I'm trying to get in most of my tales.
I think something like "the blonde woman" is more third-person objective, but I'm not sure of course since it's difficult to understand those slight shades in a language that is not mine.

Then of course every time I read a nice story I think "Wow, I get it! I have to do 'this' and 'that'"!. But when it comes to writing...it's a complete different world

Than what are you looking for here?

 

[itastorywriter]

Than what are you looking for here?

A way to write in third-person subjective view without using too much she/her/hi/him/his ? is it even possible in english?

 

[patientlee]

A way to write in third-person subjective view without using too much she/her/hi/him/his ? is it even possible in english?

Is it the subject (personal) pronouns that you're trying to avoid? We don't leave them out in English like you can in Spanish and (I think) in Italian. (I googled it. You can leave them off in Italian, if the site was correct.)

The woman is here.
She has a red car.
Her name is Mary.
The dog is with her.

All of the pronouns above are necessary in English. In Spanish you can leave some of them out.

La mujer está aquí.
Tiene un carro rojo. (Ella tiene un carro rojo. "Ella" is optional.)
Se llama Mary. (Ella se llama...)
El perro está con ella.

The personal pronouns can be left off in Spanish, but they are necessary in English.

Is this what you're asking: Can you omit personal (subject) pronouns in English? The answer to this question is no.

 

[Hypoxia]

[/quarels]

Whether writing in first or third person, I (usually) like my text to be very clear about who is involved. Ambiguity is sometimes appropriate, such as idle chatter between two or more, where identites may be irrelevant, or where I *want* the reader to be somewhat mystified. But I tend to insert identifiers in every paragraph or two, and a refreshed description every few pages (book-size pages, not Literotica pages).

My inspiration there was two-fold: 1) I hate having to page back to figure out who is doing what; and 2) the method of punctuation of an old-time writer who began as a barely-literate printer:

I never did learn how to spell, – but I did learn the typesetter's rule, – "Set up type as long as you can hold your breath without turning blue in the face, then put in a comma. When you gape, put in a semicolon, and when you want to sneeze, that's the time to make a paragraph." --Harry Oliver

Substitute 'pronoun' for comma, 'name' for semicolon, and 'description' for paragraph. The text thus maintains a nice rhythm.

"[pronoun] She walked sensuously down the stairs. [name] Linda's lithe long legs attracted eyes like rotten peaches draw fruit flies. [description] That lustrous lanky Levantine beauty, black hair swirling like liquid night, absorbed the attention of onlookers as a black hole inexorably devours all it encounters. [pronoun] She knew her place in the world." Something like that..

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

[/quarels]

Whether writing in first or third person, I (usually) like my text to be very clear about who is involved. Ambiguity is sometimes appropriate, such as idle chatter between two or more, where identites may be irrelevant, or where I *want* the reader to be somewhat mystified. But I tend to insert identifiers in every paragraph or two, and a refreshed description every few pages (book-size pages, not Literotica pages).

My inspiration there was two-fold: 1) I hate having to page back to figure out who is doing what; and 2) the method of punctuation of an old-time writer who began as a barely-literate printer:

I never did learn how to spell, – but I did learn the typesetter's rule, – "Set up type as long as you can hold your breath without turning blue in the face, then put in a comma. When you gape, put in a semicolon, and when you want to sneeze, that's the time to make a paragraph." --Harry Oliver

Substitute 'pronoun' for comma, 'name' for semicolon, and 'description' for paragraph. The text thus maintains a nice rhythm.

"[pronoun] She walked sensuously down the stairs. [name] Linda's lithe long legs attracted eyes like rotten peaches draw fruit flies. [description] That lustrous lanky Levantine beauty, black hair swirling like liquid night, absorbed the attention of onlookers as a black hole inexorably devours all it encounters. [pronoun] She knew her place in the world." Something like that..

I usta do something called CLINICAL EPISTEMOLOGY, and when patients came in spewing ambiguous sentences without referential indices, I made them untangle the blabber, and identify the subjects and objects.

 

[itastorywriter]

[/quarels]

Whether writing in first or third person, I (usually) like my text to be very clear about who is involved. Ambiguity is sometimes appropriate, such as idle chatter between two or more, where identites may be irrelevant, or where I *want* the reader to be somewhat mystified. But I tend to insert identifiers in every paragraph or two, and a refreshed description every few pages (book-size pages, not Literotica pages).

My inspiration there was two-fold: 1) I hate having to page back to figure out who is doing what; and 2) the method of punctuation of an old-time writer who began as a barely-literate printer:

I never did learn how to spell, – but I did learn the typesetter's rule, – "Set up type as long as you can hold your breath without turning blue in the face, then put in a comma. When you gape, put in a semicolon, and when you want to sneeze, that's the time to make a paragraph." --Harry Oliver

Substitute 'pronoun' for comma, 'name' for semicolon, and 'description' for paragraph. The text thus maintains a nice rhythm.

"[pronoun] She walked sensuously down the stairs. [name] Linda's lithe long legs attracted eyes like rotten peaches draw fruit flies. [description] That lustrous lanky Levantine beauty, black hair swirling like liquid night, absorbed the attention of onlookers as a black hole inexorably devours all it encounters. [pronoun] She knew her place in the world." Something like that..

That is actually really helpful, thanks.

Is it the subject (personal) pronouns that you're trying to avoid? We don't leave them out in English like you can in Spanish and (I think) in Italian. (I googled it. You can leave them off in Italian, if the site was correct.)

The woman is here.
She has a red car.
Her name is Mary.
The dog is with her.

All of the pronouns above are necessary in English. In Spanish you can leave some of them out.

La mujer está aquí.
Tiene un carro rojo. (Ella tiene un carro rojo. "Ella" is optional.)
Se llama Mary. (Ella se llama...)
El perro está con ella.

The personal pronouns can be left off in Spanish, but they are necessary in English.

Is this what you're asking: Can you omit personal (subject) pronouns in English? The answer to this question is no.

Well yes, I'm italian so the grammar is simular to your one. The answer is no, but I'm looking to write better paragraphs without too many pronouns. The one Hypoxia wrote is a nice example

 

[Zeb_Carter]

A way to write in third-person subjective view without using too much she/her/hi/him/his ? is it even possible in english?

Could be, but...

“Just like the white winged dove
Sings a song, sounds like she's singing
Ooo, ooo, ooo”​

That was the song. It was blaring on the radio. Stevie Nicks, Edge of Seventeen. It went well with the roaring growl of the cars engine as John sped down the highway. Sped. John was doing one-thirty-five. That’s miles per hour. One hundred thirty five miles per hour. The telephone poles flashed by on the right side of the car. The seams in the highway were one continuous thump. He was in a hurry. She had called, almost hysterical. Someone was in the house with her. They were banging around downstairs. John called the police, but he was closer than any county deputy. She sounded frantic as he had to hang up. She was going to lock herself in the bedroom.

His turn was quickly approaching. He slowed. Not quite enough, fortunately the skid wasn’t all that bad. John recovered nicely and accelerated down the road. Two more miles. Just two more mile to go. The car roared its anguish into the night. John was lucky the roads were as smooth as they were. Railroad tracks loomed in the distance. John slowed hard again. Ninety-five. The car was air born as it shot over the tracks. It hit the ground hard on the other side. John pressed the accelerator to the floor. The engine bellowed its mating call into the surrounding darkness. One twenty, the speedometer would go no higher. There was smoke pouring from the back of the car as it raced down the road.

“Come on girl you can do it. Please?” John cried into the night.

One mile. Just one more mile. Five thousand feet, just a measly five thousand feet. He could see the outside lights of their house shinning brightly. The car’s engine was starting to make some unpleasant noises.

“Come on baby. Just a little farther,” he whispered trying to coax more speed from his baby.

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle. John could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically. Twenty miles per hour and dropping. John could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. John opened the door and stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards up to the house.

The explosion shocked him, almost knocking him to the ground. She had been a good car, a great car, lovingly restored from a rusty old junker. John would miss her. Millie. His Millie was in trouble, he had to get to her. John was huffing. He was puffing. He was on the verge of passing out when he reached the back door. His knees were on the verge of giving out on him. Then John could hear screams from inside. His wife’s screams. Even though his heart was pounding in his chest, he entered as quietly as he could, gulping air into his oxygen starved lungs. John paused in the dining room for his pistol, which he grabbed out of the gun-safe. Clip full, round in the chamber. His Millie screamed again, a shrillness edging her voice. John heard low, gruff voices shouting back. More than one of them.

He could hear the sirens of the county cops. So could the intruders. They didn’t seem to be in any rush. Climbing the stairs as quietly as he could, John gripped the pistol tightly with both hands, muzzle pointing up, ready to point and shoot. Peeking over the top stair in the flight, he saw them. Three men. They were scrambling around the bed trying to get Millie to not only shut up but to drag her down off the bed. She stood there, legs spread for balance, a grim look on her lovely face, swinging an aluminum baseball bat. Two of the men already had bloody noses. When Millie connected with one of them again, John shot another in the leg. Then another. The third stepped out of his line of fire as his pals fell to the floor. The door slammed shut.

...why would you want too.

 

[patientlee]

That is actually really helpful, thanks.



Well yes, I'm italian so the grammar is simular to your one. The answer is no, but I'm looking to write better paragraphs without too many pronouns. The one Hypoxia wrote is a nice example

Glad you got the answer you were looking for.

 

[itastorywriter]

Could be, but...
[...]
...why would you want too.

Well, if I was able to write like that...I would probably don't mind
Actually, that's really a good example of how I'd like to write.

So the question probably is, for instance, in a paragraph like this

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle. John could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically. Twenty miles per hour and dropping. John could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. John opened the door and stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards up to the house.

There are 9 "John", "He", "His". As an english/american native reader... it doesn't bother you at all? If I were to write that paragraph in my own language, it would probably have just two/three "John" and "His".

But if it doesn't bother anyone but me, then it's probaly just my perception of the language messed up by my own native one...

 

[TxRad]

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle. John could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically. Twenty miles per hour and dropping. John could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. John opened the door and stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards up to the house.

Let's try this:

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle but he could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically, twenty miles per hour and dropping. He could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. Opening the door. he stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards to the house.

1 John and 7 he's.

Something similar in first person:

“Two more laps baby. Please! Just two more. That’s all I’m asking. Just hold together for seven more turns. I promise you an oil change and a total rebuild. I promise!”

These thoughts and others like them floated through my head as I slid around the forth turn and hammered it toward the start/finish line. There was a slight stumble in the motor as my foot reached the floor. A second place finish would give me the points win for the season. I needed the money and the publicity to attract potential sponsors, so I would be able to return next year. No sponsorship had made this a very tough year. Next year had to be better or else. At my age, options were getting to be slim to none. If this damn motor came apart now, I was royally screwed.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle. John could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically. Twenty miles per hour and dropping. John could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. John opened the door and stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards up to the house.

Let's try this:

The car didn’t start to sputter until John had to lift off the gas. He couldn’t take the curve up ahead at full throttle but he could now see their driveway. He could almost reach out and touch the damn thing. When he tromped on the gas again, the car sputtered even more. It slowed drastically, twenty miles per hour and dropping. He could see the glow of the engine out his side window. The car was on fire, as it slowed the flames shot out of the scoop on the hood. He was just one hundred feet shy of their drive. Opening the door. he stepped out of the slowly rolling car. The car continued slowly down the road as he ran up the driveway to the house. It was a hundred yards to the house.

1 John and 7 he's.

...

Thanks for that Tx. It's good, but the style I was using...no complex sentences. Have you every read any Robert Parker's Jesse Stone series? In fact there are a couple in the first example that will have to be modified not to have commas.

 

[itastorywriter]

I'll try out Parker's tales then, I hope I find something on the net. In the country I live right now it's almost impossible to find english books (and no, I'm not speaking of Italy, I don't actually live in my home country ).

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well, if I was able to write like that...I would probably don't mind
Actually, that's really a good example of how I'd like to write.

So the question probably is, for instance, in a paragraph like this


There are 9 "John", "He", "His". As an english/american native reader... it doesn't bother you at all? If I were to write that paragraph in my own language, it would probably have just two/three "John" and "His".

But if it doesn't bother anyone but me, then it's probaly just my perception of the language messed up by my own native one...

As has been said in other posts, the English language can't help but to have a lot of Proper Nouns and Pronouns. It's the way the language is structured.

If you are talking about a person, a man, you will use either his name or several of the male pronouns, he, him, his, in a sentence and/or paragraph. There is really no way around that.

To be vague about what or who you are talking about, because that is what you are doing, talking, would confuse your reader.

And as we have seen, even an accomplished writer like TxRad only cut the number by 1.

You can change the placement of those nouns, but you will still need them to make sense of what is going on.

 

[itastorywriter]

As has been said in other posts, the English language can't help but to have a lot of Proper Nouns and Pronouns. It's the way the language is structured.

If you are talking about a person, a man, you will use either his name or several of the male pronouns, he, him, his, in a sentence and/or paragraph. There is really no way around that.

To be vague about what or who you are talking about, because that is what you are doing, talking, would confuse your reader.

And as we have seen, even an accomplished writer like TxRad only cut the number by 1.

You can change the placement of those nouns, but you will still need them to make sense of what is going on.

So, it's probably just a misleading perception of mine...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

So, it's probably just a misleading perception of mine...

Probably.


Check you PM.

 

[oggbashan]

So, it's probably just a misleading perception of mine...

I think so. Native readers of English don't notice the use of pronouns and avoiding them can lead to awkward writing.

They also tend not to see repeated 'he said', 'she said' in dialogue. Their eyes just slide over them. But modifiers in dialogue tags: 'he said daringly', 'she said coquettishly' etc. can distract particularly if overdone.

 

[Hypoxia]

Native readers of English ... tend not to see repeated 'he said', 'she said' in dialogue. Their eyes just slide over them. But modifiers in dialogue tags: 'he said daringly', 'she said coquettishly' etc. can distract particularly if overdone.

I may be a wicked old reprobate, but I exploit other verbs, real or imaginary. "You freak!" she laughed. "What a turd!" he snurfed. "Is it true?" she quavered. "Aiiee! Aaargh! Urgh!" they exploded.

 

[itastorywriter]

I think so. Native readers of English don't notice the use of pronouns and avoiding them can lead to awkward writing.

They also tend not to see repeated 'he said', 'she said' in dialogue. Their eyes just slide over them. But modifiers in dialogue tags: 'he said daringly', 'she said coquettishly' etc. can distract particularly if overdone.

Yeah, I actually read about not overusing adverbs in the writers f.a.q. here on lit, and I try to do it...still sometimes that's difficult too, since it's another difference with my own language where those adverbs are used a lot.