How to be in an FLR but still be respected?

Mike302

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We've been married a long time and transitioned into a formal FLR at least 5 years ago.

It's been great, and I don't detect any problems. But I understand over time woman often slowly lose respect for the man as things "settle in". I imagine this would be an even greater issue with a FLR. My wife isn't interested in a "feminine" guy, she wants a man. A man that is "doting" is the word she used. Sex is good. We fuck eachother (includes pegging), and all of that. But she does peg me, I do kiss her ass (literally. She loves it), and defer to her in general, often in public, too. My concern is with all of this she may lose some respect for me as a man, because she wants a masculine man, that is deferential, yet doesn't want a complete door mat.

The short version is, she wants a man she can respect (I think), but enjoys fucking my ass (and she knows I like it) and me kissing her ass, (either for 10 or at least just quick smooches daily) yet many will say, "She won't respect you if you kiss her ass or spread your butt cheeks for her".

We don't fight, or name call or any of that stuff. Everything seems fine. I just don't want to be hit with any surprises. "I'm bored with ya", "tired of being a leader", or something like that.

So, how does a woman still respect her submissive, masculine man? What can the man do to keep things good?
 
I disagree with those who say she won't respect you if she fucks your ass. My girlfriend has been fucking my ass with her cock for our entire relationship. As she says, "This is just our sex."

Outside of the bedroom she frequently takes my advice or defers to my opinion. Is there an age difference between you? Is she content to take charge only in the bedroom or in all areas of your relationship?
 
I disagree with those who say she won't respect you if she fucks your ass. My girlfriend has been fucking my ass with her cock for our entire relationship. As she says, "This is just our sex."

Outside of the bedroom she frequently takes my advice or defers to my opinion. Is there an age difference between you? Is she content to take charge only in the bedroom or in all areas of your relationship?
My wife loves that you said “This is just our sex”
 
I can really appreciate that situation, thinking your partner will lose respect eventually. I think it depends on the partnership and partner you are involved with. Of course, communication is the key. Would you try switching the role once or twice to help appease your concern? Not really even the sexual roles, but maybe plan a date night where it is established that you are in charge.
 
Every relationship is different. I also am in a FLR with a fair amount of kink(mostly her ideas).We have been married almost 30 years. We have great communication, we find ourselves staying up way to late just chatting away and we spent the day together.

I met my wife in the military she is a strong woman. She went for education for me it was going to be a career. I was gone often and she ran the house, when I was home I respected the home she kept together and the ways she did it. So instead of forcing my way onto her I did it her way or asked how she wanted it done. No hit to my ego, I take orders from some and give orders to others. After an injury that ultimately led to my retirement I started to pull back. My wife had no issues with continuing doing what she was doing. I’m not feminine i don’t try to play that part. We are in a relationship and we are both good at different thing. She organizes schedules and gives me things to do. I do them, fix things and come and take the spiders out. FLR isn’t like the memes you see here.
 
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I can really appreciate that situation, thinking your partner will lose respect eventually. I think it depends on the partnership and partner you are involved with. Of course, communication is the key. Would you try switching the role once or twice to help appease your concern? Not really even the sexual roles, but maybe plan a date night where it is established that you are in charge.
That's a thought but I think it would feel just like it is. Us pretending I'm in charge.

I did ask her about my subject question. Basically, asking her, "do you think you could ever get tired of making most of the important decisions for us?" She said, "Well, I always appreciate and welcome your input. I don't think so. Do you want to make more of the decisions for us?" To which I said, "No, not really. I was just curious if you'd ever think less of me over time because you take on most of the responsibilities and do more of the masculine chores." She replied, "There's plenty of chores you do and I don't think of them as masculine or feminine and no I don't think I'd ever think less of you, that's silly." As for sex, she said that when she needs me to fuck her from behind or in missionary like a man I do as instructed and she doesn't see ever getting tired of that. She also feels that lying on my back while she straddles my head and uses my mouth is just as much a man's place as fucking her from behind.

I tell her I don't think we have any real problems but I'm always vigilant and keep up the communication so any issue can be caught early and discussed.

I think we deserve eachother. :)
 
I disagree with those who say she won't respect you if she fucks your ass. My girlfriend has been fucking my ass with her cock for our entire relationship. As she says, "This is just our sex."

Outside of the bedroom she frequently takes my advice or defers to my opinion. Is there an age difference between you? Is she content to take charge only in the bedroom or in all areas of your relationship?
No age difference. She takes charge in the bedroom and all other areas. But I'm expected to handle certain things, too. While it is a FLR she genuinely wants me to happy and supports me.

Our relationship has always been built on friendship first. Friends take care of eachother, support eachother, sacrifice for eachother, and do everything they can to make the other happy and achieve their goals. We both work, both have hobbies, and have always got along very well.

But there was a little power struggle in the early years, because it was a typical relationship where it is an FLR only the guy doesn't even realize it! Experience and maturity finally kicked and I realized how we'd best work and formerly discussed it with her. Simply put, it was just me recognizing that a relationship is better when one person has a little more power than the other one and both accept these roles. Like a Chef and a Sous chef.

It's worked out great and we get along better than ever. Sex is better, too, but that was always good. She likes giving BJ's, I like getting them, and she understands that I need that attention so she's happy to do it. Is she sucking me off because she enjoys it that much? Is it to control me? To make sure I'm not getting it elsewhere? Or because she enjoys satisfying me? I've asked her. She said it could just depend on the day but either way it's good for both of us so don't think too hard about it.

FLR has been good for me!
 
We've been married a long time and transitioned into a formal FLR at least 5 years ago.

It's been great, and I don't detect any problems. But I understand over time woman often slowly lose respect for the man as things "settle in". I imagine this would be an even greater issue with a FLR. My wife isn't interested in a "feminine" guy, she wants a man. A man that is "doting" is the word she used. Sex is good. We fuck eachother (includes pegging), and all of that. But she does peg me, I do kiss her ass (literally. She loves it), and defer to her in general, often in public, too. My concern is with all of this she may lose some respect for me as a man, because she wants a masculine man, that is deferential, yet doesn't want a complete door mat.

The short version is, she wants a man she can respect (I think), but enjoys fucking my ass (and she knows I like it) and me kissing her ass, (either for 10 or at least just quick smooches daily) yet many will say, "She won't respect you if you kiss her ass or spread your butt cheeks for her".

We don't fight, or name call or any of that stuff. Everything seems fine. I just don't want to be hit with any surprises. "I'm bored with ya", "tired of being a leader", or something like that.

So, how does a woman still respect her submissive, masculine man? What can the man do to keep things good?
I think this has more to do with your spouse than you. If she loses respect for you over something you both enjoy, she probably never had any for you in the first place, and has nothing to do with being in a FLR.

I’ve never lost respect for anyone who has submitted to me, if anything I respect them more for being open, vulnerable and vocal about their wants and desires. I’ve never felt less respected to anyone I’ve subbed for.

Communication is the answer. You should be asking your wife this, no one here could possibly know her answer.
 
I think this has more to do with your spouse than you. If she loses respect for you over something you both enjoy, she probably never had any for you in the first place, and has nothing to do with being in a FLR.

I’ve never lost respect for anyone who has submitted to me, if anything I respect them more for being open, vulnerable and vocal about their wants and desires. I’ve never felt less respected to anyone I’ve subbed for.

Communication is the answer. You should be asking your wife this, no one here could possibly know her answer.
Thanks.
I did, indeed, talk to her about this and her responses are in the pair of posts above yours.

She listened to some of the podcasts from "Peggy", who brought up what you did. About one should respect the person willing to play the sub role just as much as the dom role.
 
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I am the wife in an FLR. I feel that it is incumbent upon me to have an open and understanding perspective and accept my husband for who he is. If I was playing the role of lead but secretly craving a dominant man it would be dishonest of me to pretend otherwise. I see nothing wrong with traditional roles. But I do see a problem with a partner who loses respect for the other person for being themselves. Not being a traditional man/woman isn't a character flaw.
 
Women who "lose respect" as described in the original post are probably women who don't really want this in the first place, and their guy pushed them into it.
 
I am in an FLR, and have written numerous details about it in other threads that I will not repeat here. I have never been concerned that she would lose respect (or love) for me. In fact, her participation in this FLR is a sign of her respect for my needs as well as her acceptance and adaption to certain of my sexual inadequacies. Plus, there is far more to our relationship than her controlling my orgasms, my kissing her ass (which I do daily), and my cleaning our toilets. She respects my professional career, my skills in managing our finances, my role in our family, my relationship with friends, standing in the community, etc. In fact, I think the fact that I am not a “wimp” or incompetent in general makes it more powerful that I defer to her at home and in the bedroom. We can submit to a woman (or all women) and still be deserving of respect.
 
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I am in an FLR, and have written numerous details about it in other threads that I will not repeat here. I have never been concerned that she would lose respect (or love) for me. In fact, her participation in this FLR is a sign of her respect for my needs as well as her acceptance and adaption to certain of my sexual inadequacies. Plus, there is far more to our relationship than her controlling my orgasms, my kissing her ass (which I do daily), and my cleaning our toilets. She respects my professional career, my skills in managing our finances, my role in our family, my relationship with friends, standing in the community, etc. In fact, I think the fact that I am not a “wimp” or incompetent in general makes it more powerful that I defer to her at home and in the bedroom. We can submit to a woman (or all women) and still be deserving of respect.
Nailed it!
 
There are women that want their man to fit a traditional stereotype. That is their prerogative and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. But sometimes it does come with a narrowness of mind and preconceptions about men who don't fit that profile. It is a fine line between wanting a man with certain characteristics and not respecting a man who doesn't have them.

And there is a bit of a double standard coming from women on this sometimes. I see nothing wrong with wanting a traditional woman, but a lot of women would see that as sexist. And most women would eviscerate a man who said he didn't respect non-traditional women.

It is an odd/interesting aspect of the move toward equality. Women resist being held to any standard of femininity yet frequently hold men to a standard of masculinity, as long as it is not too masculine. Of course I don't mean all women, just that it is still an acceptable attitude for women to hold but not for men to hold.

I think that one needs to fully open one's mind on this topic, but once that has happened then what we do or don't respect will be substantial involuntary. If a woman is of an attitude to not respect a submissive man I'd suggest she take a hard look at why that is the case. But I'd also say to the man that it is fairly likely that her view won't change. Find a different woman or don't seek the role of submissive. There are plenty of women who can lead an FLR relationship while respecting their man. But it is a matter of finding them, not changing the mind of a woman who feels otherwise.
 
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There are women that want their man to fit a traditional stereotype. That is their prerogative and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. But sometimes it does come with a narrowness of mind and preconceptions about men who don't fit that profile. It is a fine line between wanting a man with certain characteristics and not respecting a man who doesn't have them.

And there is a bit of a double standard coming from women on this sometimes. I see nothing wrong with wanting a traditional woman, but a lot of women would see that as sexist. And most women would eviscerate a man who said he didn't respect non-traditional women.

It is an odd/interesting aspect of the move toward equality. Women resist being held to any standard of femininity yet frequently hold men to a standard of masculinity, as long as it is not too masculine. Of course I don't mean all women, just that it is still an acceptable attitude for women to hold but not for men to hold.

I think that one needs to fully open one's mind on this topic, but once that has happened then what we do or don't respect will be substantial involuntary. If a woman is of an attitude to not respect a submissive man I'd suggest she take a hard look at why that is the case. But I'd also say to the man that it is fairly likely that her view won't change. Find a different woman or don't seek the role of submissive. There are plenty of women who can lead an FLR relationship while respecting their man. But it is a matter of finding them, not changing the mind of a woman who feels otherwise.
Mine certainly does respect me.

I just occasionally have "what if" thoughts. My self-esteem isn't exactly a constant companion. It is of course, nobody's responsibility to provide it for me.

As for "toward equality", IMO females are way past that. Most "Western" societies are matriarchies for the lower 99% of the population. The top 1% (the very wealthy) is still mostly run by men. For the rest of us men are 2nd class citizens. Caucasian men are the lowest caste.
 
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Mine certainly does respect me.

I just occasionally have "what if" thoughts. My self-esteem isn't exactly a constant companion. It is of course, nobody's responsibility to provide it for me.

As for "toward equality", IMO females are way past that. Most "Western" societies are matriarchies for the lower 99% of the population. The top 1% (the very wealthy" is still mostly run by men. For the rest of us men are 2nd class citizens. Caucasian men are the lowest caste.

I understand. Given the roles that we are all conditioned to embrace I think it is a natural thing to wonder about. I agree that it is nobody's responsibility to provide that self-esteem, but I personally do think that as a partner I want to provide support to my husband and that includes being aware of the areas where he may feel vulnerable.

I'm not sure I would go quite as far as what you have said regarding equality, but I take your point. Unfortunately I think that our society has been drawn into the false premise that equal opportunity will translate to equality of outcomes (as if we all have exactly the same aptitudes, characteristics and life goals) and that the existence of people who have sexist attitudes is proof of ongoing inequality. In my life I feel as though I have equal opportunity to do the things that I want to do, yet retain some of the privileges traditionally afforded to women. I don't insist on or exploit those privileges but they do exist. And I am not saying that I don't encounter people with sexist attitudes or run up against gender barriers, but the challenges I face are not IMO more onerous than what other people face. Unfortunately society today seems to have predetermined who is victim and who is oppressor quite independent of actual individual behaviour.
 
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My wife is very in tune to my feelings, more so than I am. She sometimes says things that make me think that I had said something or acted a certain way that maybe questioned myself. I once asked her why she said whatever and she really didn’t give me an answer so maybe she’s just being pro active. But whatever it is she lets me know that we both have a part in our relationship and we are equally important because there would not be a relationship without the both of us and this is just how we do it.
 
There can be varying degrees of a FLR, and it takes communication to make it perfect. What is expected, what is allowed, etc. But ultimately the base line is giving her sex how she wants it, whenever she wants it.
 
My wife is very in tune to my feelings, more so than I am. She sometimes says things that make me think that I had said something or acted a certain way that maybe questioned myself. I once asked her why she said whatever and she really didn’t give me an answer so maybe she’s just being pro active. But whatever it is she lets me know that we both have a part in our relationship and we are equally important because there would not be a relationship without the both of us and this is just how we do it.
Mine does that. Reads my mind somehow.

It's like a superpower. It really encourages me to be genuine. It's also elevates her power over me. I just have to deal with it.
 
I've noticed it can be much harder to get the woman to respect a man she controls, but a Dominant man needs to be more in line or the submissive woman can find someone else. It's not easy either way, and I suppose one way to command respect is to make sure she doesn't out you before you want it. And try not to share her or yourself.
 
My wife makes more than I do - has for years.. She's in a higher paying industry. At times, she's made 2x as much. ..Moreover, I usually wait for her to initiate sex. Why? Because I'm always in the mood and she, well, not quite as much. If I wait, the sex is usually better for both of us. And when we do have sex (roughly 2x week) I am quite keen on eating her ass AND occasionally being pegged. And when she's making more sense than I - which is more often than I'd like to admit - I'll defer to her. ..So does this mean I'm in an FLR?

Whether or not you believe it is an FLR, I can tell you I have NEVER felt like my wife doesn't respect me, except maybe my sense of direction. I don't think our marriage would have survived otherwise.

Do you feel all men who make more than their wives and who are the ones who generally initiate sex are therefore in an MLR?

Put another way, your initial post suggests there's something inherently shameful for a man to fully embraces gender equality with respect to income and sex. I'm not trying to be glib, just trying to understand your labels and the premise of your problem.
 
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We've been married a long time and transitioned into a formal FLR at least 5 years ago.

It's been great, and I don't detect any problems. But I understand over time woman often slowly lose respect for the man as things "settle in". I imagine this would be an even greater issue with a FLR. My wife isn't interested in a "feminine" guy, she wants a man. A man that is "doting" is the word she used. Sex is good. We fuck eachother (includes pegging), and all of that. But she does peg me, I do kiss her ass (literally. She loves it), and defer to her in general, often in public, too. My concern is with all of this she may lose some respect for me as a man, because she wants a masculine man, that is deferential, yet doesn't want a complete door mat.

The short version is, she wants a man she can respect (I think), but enjoys fucking my ass (and she knows I like it) and me kissing her ass, (either for 10 or at least just quick smooches daily) yet many will say, "She won't respect you if you kiss her ass or spread your butt cheeks for her".

We don't fight, or name call or any of that stuff. Everything seems fine. I just don't want to be hit with any surprises. "I'm bored with ya", "tired of being a leader", or something like that.

So, how does a woman still respect her submissive, masculine man? What can the man do to keep things good?
Why do you care what others think about the gender role dynamics of the relationship between you and your wife?

You are both obviously enjoying yourselves and seem happy with her in the lead. Did you not respect her when you left the relationship? Do you not respect yourself because she has taken over the leadership role?

I'm sensing a bit of projection and unease. It's definitely something you two should talk about as a couple. You would be surprised what kind of things can be resolved quickly and completely if you talk about how you're feeling.
 
My wife makes more than I do - has for years.. She's in a higher paying industry. At times, she's made 2x as much. ..Moreover, I usually wait for her to initiate sex. Why? Because I'm always in the mood and she, well, not quite as much. If I wait, the sex is usually better for both of us. And when we do have sex (roughly 2x week) I am quite keen on eating her ass AND occasionally being pegged. And when she's making more sense than I - which is more often than I'd like to admit - I'll defer to her. ..So does this mean I'm in an FLR?

Whether or not you believe it is an FLR, I can tell you I have NEVER felt like my wife doesn't respect me, except maybe my sense of direction. I don't think our marriage would have survived otherwise.

Do you feel all men who make more than their wives and who are the ones who generally initiate sex are therefore in an MLR?

Put another way, your initial post suggests there's something inherently shameful for a man to fully embraces gender equality with respect to income and sex. I'm not trying to be glib, just trying to understand your labels and the premise of your problem.

I think that leadership is a different matter than who makes more money or who initiates sex. Those things may be correlated with who is the leader but I don't think that they define it.

That said my wife is the (strong) lead in our relationship who happens to make a bit more than I do and decides all significant matters including when we have sex.

In my view, the dynamics of gender equality have sort of distorted the picture. It used to be assumed that the man was the lead. Then when we started to become more focused on gender equality society seemed to adopt the idea that every marriage should be equal in the sense that everything was by consensus and neither party led. There is nothing wrong with that. But I think that a more complete view of the topic embraces the notion that for many couples it may work best if one of the partners IS the lead. In that context equality means that either party is just as well suited to leadership, not that neither party should lead.

When we think of most organizations or groups - be that business, government, a congregation or the many informal groups that exist in society - the vast majority have a leader or leaders. Things just function better that way. It keeps everyone pulling in the same direction and concentrates decision-making with the people best equipped to make the decisions. Maybe they are smarter or more knowledgeable in a certain area, but it could also be that they are the ones who have taken on the responsibility to dig into the details of any given decision. Or perhaps they are just more comfortable with the notion of being in charge. That doesn't mean others don't have input. But often a good decision with everyone supporting it leads to better outcomes than a decision borne entirely of compromise with everyone pulling in different directions.

For us my wife is comfortable with that notion and so am I. We don't expect that she will always do the very best thing. But we do know that she usually makes the right decision. And even when she doesn't that is part of that dynamic and cannot realistically be compared to an unattainable situation where some other consensus approach will lead to perfect decisions all the time (it won't) with no cost in terms of friction or inefficiency or indecision.
 
My wife makes more than I do - has for years.. She's in a higher paying industry. At times, she's made 2x as much. ..Moreover, I usually wait for her to initiate sex. Why? Because I'm always in the mood and she, well, not quite as much. If I wait, the sex is usually better for both of us. And when we do have sex (roughly 2x week) I am quite keen on eating her ass AND occasionally being pegged. And when she's making more sense than I - which is more often than I'd like to admit - I'll defer to her. ..So does this mean I'm in an FLR?

Whether or not you believe it is an FLR, I can tell you I have NEVER felt like my wife doesn't respect me, except maybe my sense of direction. I don't think our marriage would have survived otherwise.

Do you feel all men who make more than their wives and who are the ones who generally initiate sex are therefore in an MLR?

Put another way, your initial post suggests there's something inherently shameful for a man to fully embraces gender equality with respect to income and sex. I'm not trying to be glib, just trying to understand your labels and the premise of your problem.
Good post! Thought provoking.
 
I think that leadership is a different matter than who makes more money or who initiates sex. Those things may be correlated with who is the leader but I don't think that they define it.

That said my wife is the (strong) lead in our relationship who happens to make a bit more than I do and decides all significant matters including when we have sex.

In my view, the dynamics of gender equality have sort of distorted the picture. It used to be assumed that the man was the lead. Then when we started to become more focused on gender equality society seemed to adopt the idea that every marriage should be equal in the sense that everything was by consensus and neither party led. There is nothing wrong with that. But I think that a more complete view of the topic embraces the notion that for many couples it may work best if one of the partners IS the lead. In that context equality means that either party is just as well suited to leadership, not that neither party should lead.

When we think of most organizations or groups - be that business, government, a congregation or the many informal groups that exist in society - the vast majority have a leader or leaders. Things just function better that way. It keeps everyone pulling in the same direction and concentrates decision-making with the people best equipped to make the decisions. Maybe they are smarter or more knowledgeable in a certain area, but it could also be that they are the ones who have taken on the responsibility to dig into the details of any given decision. Or perhaps they are just more comfortable with the notion of being in charge. That doesn't mean others don't have input. But often a good decision with everyone supporting it leads to better outcomes than a decision borne entirely of compromise with everyone pulling in different directions.

For us my wife is comfortable with that notion and so am I. We don't expect that she will always do the very best thing. But we do know that she usually makes the right decision. And even when she doesn't that is part of that dynamic and cannot realistically be compared to an unattainable situation where some other consensus approach will lead to perfect decisions all the time (it won't) with no cost in terms of friction or inefficiency or indecision.

This aligns with our experience. I am comfortable taking the lead and my husband prefers to be a supportive partner relieved of the responsibility of making key decisions. We are each happy with our role and feel as though things work best when we stick to it.

The example I have used before is something as benign as going out to dinner. I decide when we are going out and where we are going. But I don't use that authority to impose my own will. I seek to strike a balance between what he likes and what I like. We just find this approach more amenable to our personalities than negotiating every decision. When we used to do that we found that more often than not the "negotiation" amounted to us each wanting to defer to the other rather than express our own preferences. That desire to accommodate actually stood in the way of open and honest communication and led to arguably sub-optimal decisions. Now, even if I seek to know what he wants the practice is that he must tell me honestly. He can't say "whatever you want honey" or say whatever he thinks I want. He must express his actual preference. In turn I commit that I won't just default to that. I will still decide based upon a balance of what each of us wants.

The same applies to sex and virtually every other aspect of our lives unless it is something where he clearly has greater expertise. Even then he will state his position and I will decide, but almost certainly with deference to his greater expertise.

There are aspects of the relationship where my leadership is more dominant, but that is because we both enjoy that psychological dynamic.
 
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