How to be a MAN

[muddie684]

My dad died when I was in middle school. I grew up as an anime nerd in the 2000s. I am now obese, full of excuses, and probably 20-40 years from death. I am ontologically, by definition, a man, but not manly, and don't "man up."

How does one become a man? Physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, how does man-boy fashion himself into husband or father material, and not merely stumble into such relationships causing permanent psychological trauma to his loved ones? Men, do you have any books to suggest or people to imitate? Women, what do you look for in a man to know he's trustworthy?

 

[Escierto]

I think you should model yourself on The Rock.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I’m not a man, so there are probably others better suited to tell you how to become one.

What I would look for in a life partner and co-parent though and what I see many people talk about when they talk about manliness, is what I would rather describe as someone who has grown up.
I think that is about some things that are useful regardless of gender, useful for anyone really and I think that might be a place to start.

To me that would mean strength and courage to take responsibility for your actions and for others who are depending on you and also to stand up for yourself and others who need it.

It would also mean self reliance by working on building useful life skills, so you can take care of yourself and others.

I would also say that I think building a world view or perhaps a value base/ ”code of honour” to live by is part of it, because I think it helps with building integrity. I do think that is going to be a work under construction as long as you are still open to learning - something that I think you should stay open to as long as possible.

All of that means doing a lot of stuff you’d rather not in my experience, so discipline, self control and perseverance are useful.
A classic on that topic would be Aurelius’ Meditations, if you want book recommendations. There are a lot of great coming of age stories out there too.

 

[twister947]

"You
Who are on the road
Must have a code
That you can live by"
CSNY

 

[ronde]

My dad died when I was in middle school. I grew up as an anime nerd in the 2000s. I am now obese, full of excuses, and probably 20-40 years from death. I am ontologically, by definition, a man, but not manly, and don't "man up."

How does one become a man? Physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, how does man-boy fashion himself into husband or father material, and not merely stumble into such relationships causing permanent psychological trauma to his loved ones? Men, do you have any books to suggest or people to imitate? Women, what do you look for in a man to know he's trustworthy?

The first question you need to answer is what do you think a man is. You mention four things, but you must have some idea of what kind of man you want to be before you'll be able to work on becoming that man. It isn't necessary to have a father to grow up being a man.

This will sound harsh, but it's meant to help. I've had a lot of similar conversations during performance reviews with employees over the last several decades.

First, and probably most important, is to take personal responsibility for what you are and what you do. If you're obese, nobody caused that but you and nobody can fix it except you. The same goes for any other character faults you might think you have that keep you from being what you consider to be a man. People make excuses in order to relive them of the responsibility for things they cause. You're right in that excuses are something children do. Adults do not, or at least adults who understand that to be successful you change the things you can and learn to live with the things you can't change. It's time to analyze what happened and control your life by changing the things you can. By honestly understanding your failings, you'll be able to figure out a way to not continue the practice.

As for the rest, there is no absolute measurement of any mental ability, emotion, or intellect that defines a man. We all fall where we fall in the bell curve of humanity. Being a man is to recognize how you are, what you can do, and what you can't do. Do what you can do, and learn to do what you can't. Emotions are not something you can learn, but emotions can be kept in check if you stop to think about what's causing that emotion before opening your mouth or taking an action you will later regret.

The last part of being a man is to respect others for how they are, what they can do, and what they can't do.

I can tell you from experience that no man, no matter how manly he is, is prepared to be a husband or father. We all think we are, but soon understand that we're not. Life is a constantly changing experience that requires constant changes in a man and a woman. Any man who is considered to be a man, would accept that fact and change his actions as required.

There aren't any specifics here, but in reality, there aren't any. You just have to figure out who you want to be and then work hard to become that man.

 

[NightL]

Don’t aim to imitate as that would not be genuine. Aim to find yourself, aim to feel proud of yourself for whoever you are.

Start with breaking things down to achievable packages:

• Put routine into your life, begin your day by stepping out your front door and walking a hundred yards and back, be proud of that.
• If you pass people by, smile and say hello and be proud that you were friendly.
• Assist others wherever you can. Volunteer to a charity organisation – leave your house to do so.
• Be around people, genuinely listen to others who communicate with you. Sometimes just listening can be the most important gift you can give another.
• Research and find groups or individuals who may be in a similar situation and wish to have walking or exercise partners.
• Make a daily list of achievable goals then reflect on what you have achieved at the end of the day.

While you lost yourself in a world of anime when young be careful you don’t lose yourself in self-help books and daydreaming (don't go on a mission to substitute one religion for another when it is yourself you need to discover, that comes from within). A walk in the park, listening to the sound of birds, wind in the trees, with the warmth of sun while smiling toward others will lift you more than a yet another chapter of yet another self-help book.

Don’t aim to run a marathon, just aim to do more than yesterday toward improving your life. Each and every day, just one step more. I’m sure you know how to adjust your diet, I’m sure you know that one step forward is better than no steps. Aim not only to be a good and reliable person toward others, but most importantly be a good and reliable person toward yourself.

Congratulations for desiring self-improvement. Be you, be unique, be kind.

 

[NightL]

First, and probably most important, is to take personal responsibility for what you are and what you do. If you're obese, nobody caused that but you and nobody can fix it except you. The same goes for any other character faults you might think you have that keep you from being what you consider to be a man. People make excuses in order to relive them of the responsibility for things they cause. You're right in that excuses are something children do. Adults do not, or at least adults who understand that to be successful you change the things you can and learn to live with the things you can't change. It's time to analyze what happened and control your life by changing the things you can. By honestly understanding your failings, you'll be able to figure out a way to not continue the practice.

@ronde have you ever tried to tell a depressed person to "just snap out of it"? Does not really work that way. Patterns developed as the result of trauma during childhood don't really fall in the category of "nobody caused that but you". Coping and avoidance patterns to detract from trauma during childhood are not "your failings" that they alone are responsible for.

Perhaps the "boot-camp" approach coupled with belittlement is not a great place to start when someone is scared and depressed of the situation they are in.

I would hope muddie684 would consider counselling from a psychologist in their journey. He is reaching out, which is the very best place to start and for which he deserves respect for.

 

[Jmanchu]

My dad died when I was in middle school. I grew up as an anime nerd in the 2000s. I am now obese, full of excuses, and probably 20-40 years from death. I am ontologically, by definition, a man, but not manly, and don't "man up."

How does one become a man? Physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, how does man-boy fashion himself into husband or father material, and not merely stumble into such relationships causing permanent psychological trauma to his loved ones? Men, do you have any books to suggest or people to imitate? Women, what do you look for in a man to know he's trustworthy?

The fact that you want to do something about it is a good first step. Even better if you have the humility to be able to recognize your shortcomings, that's already a good sign. It takes strength to say that. Start by breaking it down into one or two things: What's your definition of what a man should be and what are the steps you've taken so far to try to improve? Do you have an ambition for life outside just finding love? If you can't answer either, you're going to have problems. You need substance before you get flash. That means experience and picking up and learning the meaningful skills you'll need. That means putting yourself to the test, over and over. You have to put yourself out there, outside your comfort zone. You want to know someone to imitate? David Goggins. Ex Navy Seal guy so you know he's serious. He's got good videos. Dude is a good motivator.

Also try working out and getting fit. Find a routine, you can look it up online. It's good for more than just looking good, it helps bloodflow and hormones, and it will balance you out. Emotionally, Physically, even spiritually. What's your workout routine? What's your diet like? You got a soda habit? Drop it. Junk food? drop it. Sweets? drop the refined stuff. Eat fruits, whole grains, if you really need sweet then honey or brown sugar if you absolutely need it. Or chocolate, make sure it's cacao, the really dark stuff, without too much added sugar. Dark chocolate is actually good for you. Avoid high fructose, avoid artificial sweeteners. Fats? You can eat an egg, don't fry it, do eat avocadoes, eat fish, limit red meats to a few times a week. Get more protein. Stick to it.

You say you make excuses? Excuses and complaining are two bad habits. Especially excuses, bro. Excuses get in the way of accountability and responsibility. How you gonna grow if you can't take failure or discomfort at face value? Work on that. I'll tell you that women will look not well at a man who makes only excuses and apologies instead of trying to improve or doing something about the situation when he fails. It's a sign of unreliability. Especially if he's making the same excuses over and over, women won't like that. Same with complaining too much. Part of being a man is learning to deal with the struggle, with difficulties and how you face them. It's not easy. You might stumble and make mistakes, but that's part of the process every man, or everyone goes through(women go through this too). It sucks sometimes. It's also where you grow the most. There's a saying by David Goggins that really sticks out to me, when it comes to that "Embrace the suck." Keep at it, and the skills and life lessons you get will be more than worth it in the end.

Other things. What's your mental health like? You get any diagnoses? You taking meds? You got a therapist? Or are you just feeling down and sad? if it's the latter, then the only way to get over it is to fucking move forward, I don't know you enough to say if your depression is a due to brain imbalances or what, but if you're just sad just because, that's your body telling you the same thing you're saying here. Get some shit done because where you're at, you'll never be satisfied. No excuses. One thing my judo sensei used to say was that judo was a hard sport, but "the hardest thing about judo? It's walking through that front door for practice." It's the same thing with life and being a man. Take the first step. Don't see how hard or complicated it can be, you'll just psyche yourself out.

Do like the Nike motto and "Just do it"

 

[Goldenfinger]

You will receive many different ideas. Just don’t confuse being a man with being macho. Being reasonably physically fit and living a healthy lifestyle is good for you and can even help you mentally. But I’ve met a lot of narcissistic non genuine people with those attributes. Being a Man is being loyal to people who deserve it, keeping your word and promises. taking care of your family and being there for them. It’s being a good person. You don’t have to be rough and tumble.

USN Ret.

 

[twister947]

You will receive many different ideas. Just don’t confuse being a man with being macho. Being reasonably physically fit and living a healthy lifestyle is good for you and can even help you mentally. But I’ve met a lot of narcissistic non genuine people with those attributes. Being a Man is being loyal to people who deserve it, keeping your word and promises. taking care of your family and being there for them. It’s being a good person. You don’t have to be rough and tumble.

USN Ret.

Exactly. Now that I think about it, there's very little that separates a good woman from a good man.

 

[ronde]

@ronde have you ever tried to tell a depressed person to "just snap out of it"? Does not really work that way. Patterns developed as the result of trauma during childhood don't really fall in the category of "nobody caused that but you". Coping and avoidance patterns to detract from trauma during childhood are not "your failings" that they alone are responsible for.

Perhaps the "boot-camp" approach coupled with belittlement is not a great place to start when someone is scared and depressed of the situation they are in.

I would hope muddie684 would consider counselling from a psychologist in their journey. He is reaching out, which is the very best place to start and for which he deserves respect for.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but in my experience it is difficult to determine the difference between true depression and the desire for others to sympathize and tell the person they're doing nothing wrong and everything will be all right. The clue, to me at least, was the OP's statement about making excuses for his plight. It seemed similar to the social media posts of, "I just lost my dog and I don't know what I'm going to do. He was my very best friend in the whole world."

That's not to say I don't believe depression really exists. I have experience with a close family member who was judged to be clinically depressed and I believe his problems were caused by some things that happened in his family when he was a child. He did not make excuses for his condition. Instead, seemed to be depressed because he didn't think he had a way to change. He at one point threatened suicide but never lamented that he wouldn't live very long. I didn't tell him to "snap out of it" because that would have only aggravated his situation. I was sympathetic and we did a lot of talking. Thankfully, he did get help and is today successful. Unfortunately, my experience with other people I supervised was that they just wanted everyone to like them and give them reinforcement for how they were.

 

[Chernosoth]

The short answer is anyone here is probably far too late to start or below legal age for adult sites.

Most of the work of achieving maturity, manhood and womanhood, is done or not done in adolescence, with the help of parents and communities. At or near the end of adolescence, we are currently missing the initiation rituals that previous civilizations had into manhood, the trials of courage and intelligence, such as living like wild animals for a year.

 

[Jmanchu]

The short answer is anyone here is probably far too late to start or below legal age for adult sites.

Most of the work of achieving maturity, manhood and womanhood, is done or not done in adolescence, with the help of parents and communities. At or near the end of adolescence, we are currently missing the initiation rituals that previous civilizations had into manhood, the trials of courage and intelligence, such as living like wild animals for a year.

Nah. It's never too late to make positive changes for yourself. Be more positive. Where there's a will, there's a way, bro.

 

[ronde]

The short answer is anyone here is probably far too late to start or below legal age for adult sites.

Most of the work of achieving maturity, manhood and womanhood, is done or not done in adolescence, with the help of parents and communities. At or near the end of adolescence, we are currently missing the initiation rituals that previous civilizations had into manhood, the trials of courage and intelligence, such as living like wild animals for a year.

I would agree except I don't think it's ever too late.

I do agree with your statement of how humans develop. For a variety of reasons, we've reached a time when kids can't be kids anymore. Instead of the mother sending them out to play with only the mandate that they be home in time for supper are long gone. Those early years taught kids about how to interact with others in a socially acceptable way. Those experiences translated into their actions when they became adolescents and then adults. While most of us didn't go through any sort of initiation ceremony, the trials of courage and intelligence were still there other forms. Now, those experiences have been replaced by social media and computer games, neither of which teach anything about social interactions or what is expected from men and women.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

My dad died when I was in middle school. I grew up as an anime nerd in the 2000s. I am now obese, full of excuses, and probably 20-40 years from death. I am ontologically, by definition, a man, but not manly, and don't "man up."

How does one become a man? Physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, how does man-boy fashion himself into husband or father material, and not merely stumble into such relationships causing permanent psychological trauma to his loved ones? Men, do you have any books to suggest or people to imitate? Women, what do you look for in a man to know he's trustworthy?

A good start would be 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson. The advice actually applies to both sexes, but the advice is the advice your absent father would have given you.

A lot of it is guidelines on behaviour, how to negotiate and how to be as honest as possible. It also teaches you work ethic. Women value all of these things, despite what the talking heads (TV, Youtube, Tiktok etc) will tell you.

The second piece of advice I would offer, regarding your health is look in the mirror a lot. Put a picture of a woman (women) you find attractive next to it. Every time you walk past that mirror imagine she is looking at the man in the reflection. Nothing makes it easier to diet than knowing you could be with someone you find beautiful and all you gotta do is eat less and spend a half hour on a treadmill.

She doesn't need to be ripped, but she doesn't want to be finding spare change in your folds.

Bonus Material:

Think of the people that died so that you might sit here today free and having this conversation. Are you making the best of their sacrifice?

 

[IrisAlthea]

Perhaps I was a bit harsh

I didn’t read it as harsh as NightL did, to be fair.

People make excuses in order to relive them of the responsibility for things they cause.

I think the harsh part lies in ”they cause”, because there are absolutely reasons beyond our control for some of what happens to us and some get hit harder than others.
It’s still sadly our own responsibility to work on getting back up on our feet though, for example by getting the counseling mentioned or asking for ideas on how to start.

The clue, to me at least, was the OP's statement about making excuses for his plight.

I think someone who says that they are full of excuses, might have gotten this already though.

The short answer is anyone here is probably far too late to start or below legal age for adult sites.

Most of the work of achieving maturity, manhood and womanhood, is done or not done in adolescence, with the help of parents and communities.

Sure, it would have been easier and our society/culture could certainly make it easier.
In lieu of a time machine the best time is still now though.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I commend you for reaching out for help, but would encourage you to seek out professional help. A good therapist is the difference between stumbling along blind and someone lighting your path. I wish you the very best in your journey. Be well.

 

[Wonderer67]

I’m always a little bit leery on answering questions like this because I’m far from perfect!

How does one become a man? Physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, how does man-boy fashion himself into husband or father material, and not merely stumble into such relationships causing permanent psychological trauma to his loved ones? Men, do you have any books to suggest or people to imitate?

To me being a man is being honest with yourself and knowing what makes you tick: what you like and what you don’t. What’s important to you or not. You probably already know a lot of it, but it’s being clear about what is important (and not). I brought my children up with two basic notions: accountability and responsibility (to oneself and to others). It can mean a number of different things. But really - do the right thing for yourself and for others you’re with.

As for what it means… I’m 55 and just starting a journey on knowing myself. I don’t know what it means to be a man or a dad or an empty nester, or any number of things. I’ve always just “done” and never really asked myself how I felt about some of these things.

I am opening up painful experiences from my past with a therapist. It’s unpleasant, stuff, I have to admit but it is starting to bear fruit. As others suggested, a therapist may help you in your journey.

It’s good to have role models but maybe unhealthy to imitate people as you have stated. You may hold yourself up to a person thats hard to model and get frustrated and feel as if you’re not doing a good enough job.

It’s ok to make mistakes. It’s the best way to learn! Try a lot of things!

I wish you luck!!

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

Jordan Peterson is a quack with dangerous viewpoints. He has published absurdities in that 12 Rules for Life book, including comparing serotonin uptake in lobsters to humans to explain how sex hierarchy is supposedly natural in humans (low/high levels of serotonin in these distinctly different animals work in opposite ways, but Peterson claims the two are comparable and uses this as proof!).

This statement is bunk.

His views, the ones that Jordan Peterson himself has stated, are not dangerous nor are they quack.

People often make up views or statements and attribute them to him; just like the serotonin example. I would guess you read that somewhere other than from Jordan's own work?

That's not what he speaks about serotonin in reference to.

He is in danger of losing his license as we speak from the College of Psychologists of Ontario.

That matter is with lawyers and courts now.

Jordan Peterson has helped a vast amount of people (mostly young men) find direction and meaning in their lives and turned them away from the path of nihilism.. or worse...

[Emphasis mine.] Sounds like an easy way to give someone an eating disorder. Is this a joke?

No. This is how you remind yourself why you are doing something. You don't a desirable body from an eating disorder.

If you are not moving around much but you want to, then finding out ways to introduce that into your routine incrementally is going to improve your health. Because if you are considered obese, it will be more difficult to move around as much as you'd like, but by incorporating eating based on your hunger and nutritional needs, and physical activities based on your pleasure, you are more likely to experience more joy in your life, more self-respect and acceptance, and of course, improve your health.

If you want to achieve something you won't always like the work you need to put in to do it.

That's one of the problems young people are facing today; they are being told they can both be happy and get everything they want. That's not true, if you want more money you work more hours. You want a nice body then you're going to need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

I competed in bodybuilding a decade ago; that was tremendously uncomfortable and one doesn't need to go that far to have a nice body. However, it was very worthwhile and you'll struggle to find a more positive and affirming group of people.

@muddie684 ; if you do go the fitness route then I'd recommend bodybuilding, you don't need to all the way but you'll meet a lot of people like yourself and you'll make lifelong friends from it. Eating properly will just became a part of your day rather than a chore, so will going to the gym... because chances are your friends will be there anyway.

 

[NightL]

His views, the ones that Jordan Peterson himself has stated, are not dangerous nor are they quack.

Seems to be yet another pseudo intellectual narcissistic wanker, preaching to the gullible horde for adoration while fleecing them of $. Making his pets feel special that only they alone know the truth and only their cult leader has the answers to which he will willing share, if you just open your wallet.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...he-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

That's one of the problems young people are facing today; they are being told they can both be happy and get everything they want. That's not true, if you want more money you work more hours. You want a nice body then you're going to need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

you really have absolutely no comprehension of depression. If you wonder if depression is part of the picture here, even though it is exceedingly clear from the structure of OP, perhaps if you pop over to another post of his where he outlines his experience when offering advice to another.
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/i-dont-know-if-ill-be-ok.1583099/post-96866606

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

Seems to be yet another pseudo intellectual narcissistic wanker, preaching to the gullible horde for adoration while fleecing them of $. Making his pets feel special that only they alone know the truth and only their cult leader has the answers to which he will willing share, if you just open your wallet.

What the... are you talking about? His lectures are free on youtube, and the book costs less than 10 bucks on amazon

Pull your head out of the sand and actually take a look around instead of just listening to some ranting numbskull.

you really have absolutely no comprehension of depression. If you wonder if depression is part of the picture here, even though it is exceedingly clear from the structure of OP, perhaps if you pop over to another post of his where he outlines his experience when offering advice to another.

He asked how to become a man, not how to deal with depression.

His father died years ago, there's evidence abound what happens to fatherless men.

I am giving him advice on manhood, not on depression

 

[NightL]

What the... are you talking about? His lectures are free on youtube, and the book costs less than 10 bucks on amazon

catnip for conservatives and catholics who want their hands held because the world is scary and keeps on changing, offering validation for their ignorance
"roll up, roll up only 10 bucks on Amazon and you too can reclaim your masculinity"

Oh I'm sure you have a handle on your manhood

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

catnip for conservatives and catholics who want their hands held because the world is scary and keeps on changing, offering validation for their ignorance
"roll up, roll up only 10 bucks on Amazon and you too can reclaim your masculinity"

Oh I'm sure you have a handle on your manhood

I have no idea what you're talking about now, but I get the impression that your dislike of Peterson stems from political ideology. Much like @GoldenCompulsion , I think you've read things written about Peterson rather than things written by Peterson.

My recommendation is based upon what I believe is best for @muddie684 , I don't believe that the direction you're taking the conversation in is.

 

[NightL]

I have no idea what you're talking about now

I'm curious - when did you lose your ability to ask "why?" - do you just blindly follow that latest fad that you feel gives you a warm hug. Of course you have to remember there can be an angle and motive to the hug... So have you not questioned "why" your cult leader likes to posturise and for what gain? What motivates them? Could you be a pawn for their gain? Could it be possible that you are played by an arrogant egocentric twat (dropping that UK colloquialism especially for you). Were you discouraged from your asking of "why" as a child?

I didn't really have to ask why the OP asked their question as they spelled it out - a child tragically loses their father then buries themselves in a isolating activity coupled with developing an eating disorder that has carried into adulthood. That has depression stamped all over it and the link I provided to his other post clearly indicates that. Oh coupled with probably his remaining parent going through their own trauma. I wonder to how many times he has felt the pressure of "just man up" when he is just struggling for the day?

there's evidence abound what happens to fatherless men

is that the missing masculinity thing again, the lack of a father being more traumatic than losing a parent at a young age. Interestingly you went that direction where I sympathised for the child losing a parent.

 

[GlasDomDaddy]

I'm curious - when did you lose your ability to ask "why?" - do you just blindly follow that latest fad that you feel gives you a warm hug. Of course you have to remember there can be an angle and motive to the hug... So have you not questioned "why" your cult leader likes to posturise and for what gain? What motivates them? Could you be a pawn for their gain? Could it be possible that you are played by an arrogant egocentric twat (dropping that UK colloquialism especially for you). Where you discouraged from your asking of "why" as a child?

I didn't really have to ask why the OP asked their question as they spelled it out - a child tragically loses their father then buries themselves in a isolating activity coupled while developing an eating disorder that has carried into adulthood. That has depression stamped all over it and the link I provided to his other post clearly indicates that. Oh coupled with probably his remaining parent going through their own trauma. I wonder to how many times he has felt the pressure of "just man up" when he is just struggling for the day?


is that the missing masculinity thing again, the lack of a father being more traumatic than losing a parent at a young age. Interestingly you went that direction where I sympathised for the child losing a parent.

I lost my mother around 8. I had to help care for my disabled father from that point onward.

Jordan Peterson doesn't give you warm hug, he doesn't validate your beliefs and he doesn't encourage you to to be weak. Quite the opposite. You know almost none of what JP writes, you clearly have not bothered to read it before wiping your arse with the pages.

You're telling OP to go down the path of weakness, and his life will never get better that way. I know more than most.

Sympathy won't help him, he will get that in truckloads. Sympathy is not something anyone should seek, and women do not select the men they feel sympathy for as potential mates.

Sympathy is that warm hug you speak of, and it's the thing that this kind of depression feeds on.

@muddie684 ask yourself this; who do you want to be? Someone that looked adversity in the face and overcame it, someone people look up to and who people can count on? or... do you want to be the squeaky wheel on the shopping cart, the one who gets the all the wrong kind of attention, and the burden to everyone?

If you want the latter, I respect that, go ahead.

If you want the former, then heed my advice.

OP will probably never be happy, but that's fine. Happiness is always temporary.