How much is too much?

[MaleThonger]

I've always been fascinated and perplexed by erotica. I love reading and getting hot and steamy and masturbating to it. I hate slogging through extraneous details that bog down the action. Who cares if she runs a successful catering business and likes to take walks on her lunch breaks? (Unless she meets someone on one of those walks?)

My own writing tends to run a bit more streamlined, get in, get laid, get out. Not quickies, per-Se, but not a Stephen King sized novel. BUT, I also wish to continue to grow as a writer, so i put forth the question:

How much back story do you like to get in a short erotic piece? What details drive you wet and wild? and which ones are fodder for snoreville?

 

[RedMonkeyButt]

I've always been fascinated and perplexed by erotica. I love reading and getting hot and steamy and masturbating to it. I hate slogging through extraneous details that bog down the action. Who cares if she runs a successful catering business and likes to take walks on her lunch breaks? (Unless she meets someone on one of those walks?)

My own writing tends to run a bit more streamlined, get in, get laid, get out. Not quickies, per-Se, but not a Stephen King sized novel. BUT, I also wish to continue to grow as a writer, so i put forth the question:

How much back story do you like to get in a short erotic piece? What details drive you wet and wild? and which ones are fodder for snoreville?

As a reader, I actually prefer for the story to be a story. By that I mean I don't want to read just 'stroke' pieces all the time. I prefer a longer story with a plot and some great sex thrown in, not a lot of great sex with a little story thrown in because the writer got bored or wanted to make it a certain length.

On the other hand... my own longer piece is almost novel length at 55k words. It's not all sex, obviously, as that would make for some very sore characters. My shorter piece is a little over one Lit page long and it's purely a stroke piece, but it has the room to be expanded should I choose to do that. I just took one scene and posted it.

These are just my preferences, hope it helps.

 

[Tyro999]

I'm with RMB on this one. My standard opening with comments on stories is "At 68, the story part of a stroke-story is more important than the stroke part" and then go on to say what I liked about the story in question, both parts if needed.

Out of curiousity, I looked up MaleThonger's story page, and skimmed the 11 stories there [1 Red H, 1 with a 3.5 something, the rest between 4.17 and 4.49] and found that he practices what he preaches. Most were 1 pagers, and the sex started within 3-5 paragraphs. So his stories obviously work for his audience - at least those readers who bother to vote. They didn't for me. [Insert trite phrases here; c'est la vie, different strokes for different folks, ...]

Fortunately, there are enough Lit writers here that I have found no shortage of writers who meet my desires for a good story mixed in with the stroke part.

 

[Innuendos]

I suppose that, in the spirit of this being a site dedicated primarily to the writing of erotica, there should be some focus on that... but I prefer to stick to the story element. The sex is an integral part of the story, sure, but I don't like my writing to be dependent on that. Probably because I've been doing romance, and while I feel that sex may and can be part of love, it's not the end-all and be-all of it.

 

[Etaski]

My own writing tends to run a bit more streamlined, get in, get laid, get out. Not quickies, per-Se, but not a Stephen King sized novel. BUT, I also wish to continue to grow as a writer, so i put forth the question:

How much back story do you like to get in a short erotic piece? What details drive you wet and wild? and which ones are fodder for snoreville?

Individual answers to those questions aren't really going to let you grow as a writer from what I can see. They are simply rephrasing what you said at the beginning about what you don't like in erotica, and discussing that in detail.

If you truly want to grow as a writer, the questions are simpler: if you take the sex scenes out, does the story still stand on its own? Could you lead up to the sex then "fade to black" and let the reader imagine how it went? Can you imply something happened but the story continues with the involved characters behaving appropriately afterward?

If the answer is yes, you've grown as a writer, and whatever details you add to the sex scenes are the frosting on the cake. But also imagine that even cake can collapse under the weight of too much frosting, so keeping balance so the sex doesn't derail the story is something to keep in mind, too.

 

[kromen]

Lately, I've been more focused on the story and less on the actual sex. The sex will come, no pun, but building the story around the actual encounter is what gets my mind flowing.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

How much back story do you like to get in a short erotic piece? What details drive you wet and wild? and which ones are fodder for snoreville?

An interesting question, MT, and I'm sure you're not surprised at the variety of answers you've gotten.

I understand your preference for quick stories with lots of sexual/erotic content, and as many others have replied: to each his own.

As a reader, I find stories like that just don't work at all for me. I don't find erotic tension if I can't get traction with the characters - and I need to know who the characters are for that to happen (and that involves more than just occupation, age, and how big his/her dick/tits is/are).

As a writer, I find that the back story IS the story. The first story I wrote and published contained the most sexual/erotic 'action' of any of my stories. To be honest, I found that writing all those sexual/erotic encounters got to be tedious. As I continued to write and publish I found a great deal more satisfaction in exploring the relationship dynamics between the characters and their emotional development. I'm sure tyro999 would just love my stories, because they tell complete stories with real plots and complex and developing characters, and tend to emphasize the 'story' rather than the 'stroke' (and I've found devoted readers who want complete stories). Eventually I went back and re-wrote that first story to develop the main character more (and to tie the story in more closely with five stories that followed it).

At this point, I don't really regard what I write as 'erotica' (although in publishing my stories I have to categorize them as such due the adult/sexual/erotic content they contain). I much more regard my stories as just general literary stories that don't shy away from or euphemise the sexual or erotic elements.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Different people, different tastes.

I'm interested in how people relate to one another - sex, conversation, body language, sometimes power-games and violence. Stories that concentrate on all the other aspects but leave out the sex - those seem incomplete to me. Stories that focus ONLY on the sex - even more so.

So when I read a story, I want to get into the protagonists' heads. It's hard to do that without backstory - some authors can manage it, but not many.

 

[CWatson]

My own attitudes to the topic are shaped by the fact that I've been reading erotica for close to half my life, and was writing it long before I actually got laid. What I learned is that what goes on in erotica (and for that matter filmed pornography) is rather different than what goes on in real bedrooms. And what I learned from that was that my complete and total lack of real-world sexual experience meant nothing. The sex people come to Literotica for is a ritualized fantasy, and if I could learn to vomit it out at will, it would be difficult for anyone to discern that I was faking it.

So when I come here to read, I often skip the sex scenes entirely. As far as I'm concerned, they're all basically interchangeable with each other. All of which was a long-winded way of saying, I think the story part is more important than the stroke part.

Having said that, there's another angle to it. (I explained this to that one spammer last week.) Right now, at this very moment, there are (at a guess) about 60 million human beings having sex. Yes, right at this instant. Do you care? I sure don't. They're strangers to me. I'm happy for them, but largely on an intellectual level. It certainly wouldn't bug me if any of them were to lose their sexual outlets. I mean, again, intellectually that's sad, but I'm not emotionally involved. (And shoot, if some of them break up, that means more single women for me to try and get involved with!)

Sex is more relevant to my interests if I know the people having it, and if I have emotional investment--if there are reasons for me to want them to have sex. Without that, the only reason I might get involved (or aroused) is if there are particular turn-ons involved of which I approve. Now, I admit it--I'm a romantic at heart; to a certain extent, "story" is my turn-on. But the reason I always espouse this angle is that story-as-a-turn-on works on almost everyone. When The Reader stops and asks himself, "Do I have reason to care?"--which is related to a much more important question, "Do I have reason to keep reading?"--having interesting characters around will help tilt the balance in the story's favor.

Beyond that, it's just a question of ratio and pertinence. What's the "optimum" balance between Story and Stroke? Ask fifty different people and you'll get fifty different answers. It also depends on the writer--how good they are at characterization. A writer who can paint a character in fifty words can obviously jump into the sex faster than one who needs five hundred. Alas, fifty-word writers tend to be thin on the ground.

In the end, I'd also like to agree with Etaski. Try stretching yourself. How quickly can you characterize? How much can you characterize? Set yourself challenges. Force yourself to write a story where sex is only 33% of the wordcount; force yourself to paint a character in fifty words or less. And once you're done, take what you like of what you've learned and ditch the rest. There's no rule in the Book Of Rules that says you have to write an erotic story a certain way. Do what makes you happy.

[EDIT] Also, don't be concerned with the fact that almost all of the replies seem to espouse the story-before-stroke angle: that's a demographics issues. The kind of person who posts on this board at all, much less in reply to your message, has a high probability of being the story-before-stroke type. We are not representative of an unbiased reading public, and you should feel free to take our thoughts with a grain of salt. (To better simulate the opinions of an unbiased reading public, pretend there are more typos. )

 

[MaleThonger]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies (which I did find kinda surprising). My last two stories (works in progress still) have been much more story orientated, (hence my question). I'd love some feedback on them once they are done and posted.

I would really like all of my stories to have a different feel, vibe, pacing etc... So it seems based on these replies that I still have some work to do...

 

[Pixxie]

My two cents

My writing is sparse and dry. What I do to counter that is to "become the reader." I re-read my story the next day and flesh it out where it needs it.

I have heard the reverse as well: over-write and edit out the extras later.

To answer the question, write only what is necessary. The elements that come into play in the story: "why is she horny," "what makes her horny" and all those little details that compose those answers (for example). I find that even adding one or two things for just "color" distracts me as a reader and weighs my piece down.

I hope I was helpful.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I think CWatson gives good advice but I'd like to nuance a tad.

I'm totally pro-story and character development, so we move to the sex scenes smoothly. Given a stroke story, a writer has a problem. Describing the act is a bit non-erotic so a stroke writer has to find other weapons. We have to want them to get into bed and we don't need a play-by-play account but a pillow talk seque full of dialogue.

The dialogue makes a much better stroke piece.

 

[AmethystRains]

I only have one published chapter right now, I'm working on the rest, but I like to give a little background about the characters before they jump into the sexual stuff. Maybe my story is a little different because it's based on true events and I want the reader to actually get to know my characters and to understand the emotions that go along with the sex.

My first chapter is 1 lit page and the sexual event doesn't start until about halfway in. The following chapters may delve in a little bit sooner, but I've found at least for myself, it's hard to get into a story when I don't care about the characters. I don't mind reading a few paragraphs about what a character had for lunch or about the day he had at work, because it helps me to visualize his overall mood and not just the way he looks.

However, there are times when I'm just looking for a quick stroke story and appreciate when I find one that gets right to the point. Everyone's preferences are different and there is no right or wrong answer for "too much". Write the way that makes you happy.

 

[Innuendos]

One thing that disappoints me on a regular basis is the lack of detail in a "switch" moment. I refer to those points in a story where a female or male decides they like doing the same gender after all, a reluctant character or outright victim changes from someone being sexually assaulted to a raging borderline nympho participant, intercourse flips the love switch or someone decides to cheat on their spouse.

Sure, having an orgasm might be enough to flip that switch in someone's head if they'd never had that experience before, but there's rarely even that much justification given to it, just a simple cheesy device that acts as a substitute for an interesting insight into the character's motivations.

It's easy to forget that, and I know I've missed it on a few occasions in my own writing, but honestly, the motivations are IMO generally key to an entertaining story.

 

[Seductive_Wolftress]

I have a few stories on here and 3 or 4 have been on the hot list most of the time. It is important to have a story with the erotica or your readers will lose interest before finishing the read. I found it helpful to take my personality and a male personality and put a circumstance around the two for inspiration. I might add, the want to just write hot sex is ok too. Some readers may just want a quick read for a less time consuming masterbation sesson. There are many types of readers, it just isn't really the kind of reading that you would do to sell per-say. Hope I was helpful and good luck to you.

 

[MaleThonger]

Do those of you looking for more story consider them to be more romance novel than erotica?

 

[ultach]

Sure it's an erotica site but half the fun of sex is the anticipation: the small talk and the kisses that might lead to more. It's difficult, if not impossible, to keep everyone's attention given the broad readership at LE but there is room for different styles because there are so many colours of sex in the real world.
I'm fascinated by the minutiae of an experience, the details which on their own mean nothing, but in context jog common memories. Sex for me is an experience that engages body and soul so the 'pull up and fill her up' one-pagers leave me as unsatisfied as a fast-food meal. All the same I can appreciate the need for a double-cheese-quarter-pounder now and again

I agree with stickygirl - for me, the real arousal in the writing is in the anticipation, the reading of little signs. I enjoy the descriptions of eventual sex, especially the wilder ones, but I like the langorous periods of heady expectation and tension.

 

[Etaski]

Do those of you looking for more story consider them to be more romance novel than erotica?

?....

Having erotica with a story is often not even in "romance." It can be contemporary fiction, autobiography, thriller, mystery, horror, science fiction, fantasy, adventure, western, philosophy, sociology/anthropology....

I've found erotic elements in all of these categories and more in actual books.

Erotica implies the focus is suppose to be the erotic, but the story itself doesn't have to be romance.

 

[sr71plt]

Do those of you looking for more story consider them to be more romance novel than erotica?

When I'm looking for more story in a story, it doesn't really have anything to do with genre. It's that I thought the specific effort was underbaked. It isn't even a wordage issue. I've read some great 500-word stories. It's just that I didn't think the author gave enough to that particular story.

 

[IzzyAndy]

I think I'm a bit of an awkward mix, really; I like very sex-focused stories but there has to be a reason why the sex is happening (Even if it's just "MMC is a slut" like in my only Lit piece so far) and the characters have to have some sort of backstory/characterisation.

This is the sort of thing I hate:

WARNING !GENERALISATION!

1st PoV Hiii this is me, here are two sentences of what I do for a living
Here are two paragraphs of what I look like. In numbers.
Oh, look, another character!
What they look like. In numbers.
RANDOM SEX.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Individual answers to those questions aren't really going to let you grow as a writer from what I can see. They are simply rephrasing what you said at the beginning about what you don't like in erotica, and discussing that in detail.

If you truly want to grow as a writer, the questions are simpler: if you take the sex scenes out, does the story still stand on its own? Could you lead up to the sex then "fade to black" and let the reader imagine how it went? Can you imply something happened but the story continues with the involved characters behaving appropriately afterward?

If the answer is yes, you've grown as a writer, and whatever details you add to the sex scenes are the frosting on the cake. But also imagine that even cake can collapse under the weight of too much frosting, so keeping balance so the sex doesn't derail the story is something to keep in mind, too.

This is great advice.

There is no issue about writing stroke stories but you have to realize that you need to move beyond play-by-play action and get into the interplay of the 5 senses between the parties.

In any variation of a sex story, we have to want the coupling to happen.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

At the risk of a really flaming generalization:

Women want to identify with the characters, and want to share the emotional rollercoaster the character is on. That requires backstory by the pound. (It does not require fifteen pages on the character's wardrobe, however.)

Men mostly want to experience a world in which fucking is not a epic social and interpersonal snafu, and nothing says fucking is not a epic social and interpersonal snafu like back-to-back sex scenes, ideally with a variety of partners.

Which you write depends on who you are writing for. I like the idea of women getting off to my stories, so I put in backstory and char development in anything over a few pages, and I find writing char development fun. Guys may find it meandering, I don't know. I'd *love* to have story votes broken down by gender.

 

[cocput]

I usually don't read shorter pieces, bit that is personal preference. There is a thread somewhere "How long is too long?". You can search for it.

I recently read a one-pager by MistreeLynn here You can see the character development there. In Lit, that is the most I have seen in a one-pager.

There are a couple of 2-pagers by sr.

IMO, your stories are too short, and mainly cater to the stroke population. So there is not much room for writing elaborate background. But you don't have to write a couple of paras of background upfront. You can liter it over multiple paras, and let the reader pick them up as he/she reads along. (can't give an example right now. will have to look it up.)

example of descritpion of a cock: there is no need to advertise that the guy is having a 9-incher in the first/second para. It's suffecient to let the reader know it later, if you say, "She struggled to accommodate his can-like 9-incher," when the action starts.

When I used to write strokes, I usually spent 2 paras to give background, and one para to indicate what happened after the short steamy incident.

--scorpio

 

[Anjasa]

I don't really enjoy erotic novels where the only real plot happens during sex, and every scene contains sex.

I'd honestly rather a regular ol' book where instead of fading to black there was explicit sex - and so this is what I write. I'd say probably 10-20% of what I write is explicit sex, the rest is build-up and plot.

I love teasing, and flirting, and the preamble before sex quite a lot.

I can read erotic short stories where the majority of it is sex, but I still prefer a scene or two of buildup and plot. I just can't find sex without purpose to be all that sexy, which makes picking pornography a terrible task.

 

[Harlow5]

It's not all sex, obviously, as that would make for some very sore characters.