How much disclaimer is enough?

[Blind_Justice]

So, I got this comment from an Anonymous:

So well written, but I didn’t particularly appreciate all the cock the guy took because it wasn’t in that category. True, you gave us plenty of time, story-wise, to avoid it, but not warning about it ahead of time is disingenuous. I like your writing, but these stories are categorized for a reason. I should know before reading so I can make an informed choice.

I’m not uptight, but that stuff doesn’t do it for me. I don’t want to read it. This is an erotic site, after all.

In my wonderful, weird, over 100,000 word Geek Pride Day story "Express Delivery", there are numerous sex scenes, most of them m/f or f/f or futa/f. BUT the male main character takes part in a tentacle sex threesome where he both gives a tentacle BJ and receives some pegging, plus in the end he confesses his love to basically a futanari (dickgirl) character by, among other things, giving her a wet, messy blowjob. It is clearly signposted within the story that it would come to this. Also, in my Author's Notes, I specificically said:

Please note: It should go without saying, since I'm posting this to an adult fiction site, but a fair warning to all: This story tackles adult themes of gender, morals and strange sex. There will be tentacles, futanari and aliens mixed up in hot, messy tangles. If that's not your cuppa, read something else.

How much more signposting and warning should I give before it is enough? If this easily squicked out anon had his way, this story would probably end up in GM, but that's utter idiocy because there is no m/m sex in the story. He's not taking "that much cock" to begin with! I'm a bit confused.

 

[Bramblethorn]

How much more signposting and warning should I give before it is enough? If this easily squicked out anon had his way, this story would probably end up in GM, but that's utter idiocy because there is no m/m sex in the story. He's not taking "that much cock" to begin with! I'm a bit confused.

I think this falls firmly in the category of "Things That Are His Problem And Not Yours".

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think this falls firmly in the category of "Things That Are His Problem And Not Yours".

+1 on that.

I would also say that, given the content, it was appropriate to give advance notice and that the notice you gave seems appropriate.

A story I posted got a comment froma reader that he didn't voted low because like 'that kind of story', despite a really explicit warning up-front. There's no accounting for some people.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How much more signposting and warning should I give before it is enough? If this easily squicked out anon had his way, this story would probably end up in GM, but that's utter idiocy because there is no m/m sex in the story. He's not taking "that much cock" to begin with! I'm a bit confused.

Don't be confused. It's the reader's problem, not yours. I mean, seriously, he's so afraid of cock he gets squicked by a human appendage in a fucking tentacle story? I don't think he's quite old enough to be reading smut on Lit.

 

[AlinaX]

I think m/futa and m/tentacle skirt a little too close to m/m for some.

 

[Emirus]

I wrote a parody of the 1980’s show Dynasty and amongst the anonymous comments were the two below. I wrote quite a long introduction the final sentence of which was “I know cellphones as we know them didn’t exist in the 1980’s but I needed it for the plot.”

The first one was: “A good story can, remember the series. My only gripe? A text? In 1983? Come on!!! Mobile phones were the size of house bricks in the LATE 80’s, with the battery life of next to nothing!! Unless it was a car phone with it’s breeze-block size battery pack. Hard to fit in a purse, I’m sure you’ll agree? That really is my only gripe. Otherwise 4 stars.” Presumably he gave me 3 stars but maybe less, who knows?

This was immediately followed by the kind you want to read. It was also much longer but this is the relevant extract: “More please. First, as to the cellphone issue, those of us that paid attention will note you said in the beginning that cellphones as we know them didn’t exist in the 1980’s but you needed it for storyline purposes. Now, I also wish to see more of this. It was witty, funny, and hot, a rare combo.”

Does this mean that sometimes it’s a waste of time writing an explanation at the beginning because those who haven’t bothered to read it will mark you down because of their own desire to jump straight into the story? I don’t think there is a definitive answer but I’ll continue to write an introductory explanation, when I think it’s needed, for readers who as the second anon said “those of us who pay attention.” I’ll also carry on with my policy of never deleting a comment no matter how uncomplimentary or abusive.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Thanks for the peace of mind. I have toyed with the idea of not disclaiming anything, but after the complaints that got me with "Mud&Magic", I thought better of it. One shitstorm a year is enough.

 

[jsmiam]

@blind. It’s not that I disagree, it’s definitely the commenters problem.

Perhaps if you’re going to the trouble of a disclaimer though, take it one tiny step further (like you did for us) on explaining what futa is? Some people (confession, me included) have gaps in our slang vocabulary outside of our own particular universe. So futa for example, I’ve seen the term a million times, but always in the context of “I don’t know what that is. Maybe someday but not today I’ll either click on that story or go look it up at urban dictionary”).

Keep disclaiming though. Not to open/reopen the bigger debate, I personally like a sentence or two.

 

[VermillionVenusian]

“Futa” is short for “futanari”, a Japanese term referring to (in porn at least) a very specific type of hermaphrodite: a woman (with breasts and a vagina) that also has a penis. Balls optional. This is distinct from a trans woman, who may have breasts and a penis, but no vagina.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

It's my opinion that it's unnecessary to give disclaimers for every single thing in a story that might possibly be on someone's list of turnoffs. Because that's what it was in your example: a turnoff. Not a trigger. Triggers deserve warnings.

You warned of tentacles. Is it really necessary to warn that they might end up in his ass? Tentacle monsters are like that. If there's an orifice, they're in it. You told him there would be futanari. You didn't say who they'd be fucking.

Authors may do themselves a disservice by prefacing their story with long notes. Most of the time, I don't think any note is needed. If there's something important for people to know, putting it concisely at the beginning stands the best chance of being read. When the author includes paragraphs at the beginning of the story (not saying you did, OP), I think people often skip over it. Sure, they've nobody to blame but themselves if they do, but it's not good for the author either, who put it there for a reason. A lot of those disclaimers are intended to filter readers who aren't the intended audience, for the benefit of the author as well as the audience.

I'm guilty of not reading long notes from the author myself, and that's coming from a cereal box reader. When I see paragraphs of author's notes, it frequently means the author is trying to guide my reception of the story. I'd rather read it for myself and experience my own reaction without preconceptions I might pick up from the prefatory statement. Of course, if I don't read the notes, I've got no right to complain if I don't like the subject matter. But is it really reasonable to complain about that anyway? Just stop reading. It's no more than the investment made in a story that turns out not to be one's cup of tea for any other reason.

 

[Damoiselle]

I mean, I agree with everyone that the commenters reaction is worth an eye-roll.

But...A lot of people do associate tentacle porn as something only women experience, and get squeamish as soon as anything penetrative happens to male characters. He was probably all on board with seeing the messy tentacles get messy with women, but if it does anything to a man, it challenges his conception of masculine sexuality even if no other man is present.

I'm not saying it doesn't make them seem fragile, but I think--for the sake of you seeing as few of these complaints as possible--that it's a good idea to mention anytime that thing will happen specifically.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I mean, I agree with everyone that the commenters reaction is worth an eye-roll.


I'm not saying it doesn't make them seem fragile, but I think--for the sake of you seeing as few of these complaints as possible--that it's a good idea to mention anytime that thing will happen specifically.

Well-phrased.

I look on it as being like a restaurant menu. If somebody doesn't squid, for instance, having that ingredient shown on the menu when it is included allows the customer to make a better choice, one more to his or her tastes; it also reduces any chance of complaints.

Our readers are our customers. There are some genres here on Lit I find not to my taste. As an example, I'm not personally big on incest. I'm not complaining about IT stories or judging IT writers or those who do like it - we're all big kids here and that's up to them. I generally just avoid that sort of story by not going to that area. If on the other hand I am reading a nice story in Romance and all of a sudden Grandpa is doing Sis while Mom helps with the vibrator, I'm not going to be all that impressed. A warning would have been nice.

Again, one doesn't have to be judgemental, but warnings can be a good idea if a story includes something many people find not to their tastes.

In this case, of course, Jughead blew past the warning - his or her fault entirely.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the disclaimer is fine as-is.

You cannot possibly be responsible for making every reader happy or for disclosing every single thing in a story that a reader might possibly dislike.

Opinions may vary, but to my mind opening up a story at Literotica shouldn't be like ordering a hamburger from McDonald's. You have no right as a reader to know exactly what you are getting. Some element of surprise and uncertainty is to be expected. If you don't like what you get . . . stop reading and move on to the next story.

For me, personally, I like not knowing exactly what I'm going to read. I think there are some other readers like me.

There's something else to consider about disclaimers that say too much: For every reader like this one who complained, there may be a reader whose reading horizons are expanded by unexpectedly reading something he hasn't encountered before. If he knew about it before he might not have tried it.

 

[Handley_Page]

Among the general Readership, I wonder how many understand what "futa" stands for ?
Now, I'm not into tentacles and so on, but I really think a word such as that should not be shortened. I put it into Google and got "Futakuchi-onna."

 

[Blind_Justice]

I mean, I agree with everyone that the commenters reaction is worth an eye-roll.

But...A lot of people do associated tentacle porn as something only women experience, and get squeamish as soon as anything penetrative happens to male characters. He was probably all on board with seeing the messy tentacles get messy with women, but if it does anything to a man, it challenges his conception of masculine sexuality even if no other man is present.

I'm not saying it doesn't make them seem fragile, but I think--for the sake of you seeing as few of these complaints as possible--that it's a good idea to mention anytime that thing will happen specifically.

Well, there is an edit on the horizon anyway. Might as well overhaul the disclaimer once again to include a specific mention of tentacles on male and male on futa. Am I the only guy around here who gets turned on by that?

@Handley Page: futanari is what you should be looking for. And I don't mean those weird, plasticky 3D renders with ...assets bigger than their legs. I will append the disclaimer to fully spell it out too.

Anyway it's interesting to see people moan about maybe 15% of a 100,000-word story. Two readers already mentioned that it would work as well without all the messy sex, but honestly? Having it in was the fricking point

 

[jaF0]

There will be tentacles, futanari and aliens

How much more signposting and warning should I give before it is enough? If this easily squicked out anon had his way, this story would probably end up in GM, but that's utter idiocy because there is no m/m sex in the story. He's not taking "that much cock" to begin with! I'm a bit confused.

That alone would keep me out, but the GM thing should be at the top of the list. That's an automatic story killer for many, whether anyone else agrees or not.

 

[Blind_Justice]

That alone would keep me out, but the GM thing should be at the top of the list. That's an automatic story killer for many, whether anyone else agrees or not.

The IS NO GM in the story. Reading comprehension, can I have some?

I said "if Anon had his way, this would end up in GM which is utter idiocy because there is no GM sex in the story."

It's a Sci-Fi story first and foremost, then erotica, then tentacle and futa porn. Not really hard to understand.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

That alone would keep me out, but the GM thing should be at the top of the list. That's an automatic story killer for many, whether anyone else agrees or not.

But is that really gay male? Futanari aren't male, and I think most tentacle monsters are gender-neutral. (If I ever see one, I'm not coming closer to check!) Maybe what Damoiselle said was key. If the object is to avoid complaints, any sort of penetrative sexual activity with a male should be mentioned.

Edit: I'm not suggesting it was necessary - just a way to avoid the complaints, if that's the issue.

 

[Blind_Justice]

EoN: If we were to get really technical, there are two types of girls with extras in my story - first, a species of androids able to reconfigure their sex depending on their partners. Their base bodies exhibit male or femaie traits, but they can attach a cock whenever it suits them.

The second is literally a third gender. One of my species had some fun with nuclear weapons during their pre-spaceflight history and fought a war which nearly killed off the whole species. The survivors mutated, which leaves them not only with a 2:1 female to male ratio, but a third gender as well. I know evolution doesn't work that way, but it's my setting and I make the rules. Voilá, natural born futa. Breasts, generally female body type, dong. Beloved as good luck charms and Wise Women.

Add to that a species of shapeshifters who behave much like organic Borg and you have all the ingredients for a messy, yet fun space adventure.

And the tentacle/futa stuff isn't even the main focus of the sex scenes.

I have
male x furry x furry (one bunny, one cat girl)
male x catgirl and female x sexbot (going from f to futa)
male x female vanilla (with a bit of butt play on the female)
male x female x shapeshifter
male x futa (where the male penetrates the futa while the female watches)
male x futa (male gives blowjob and handjob)

Done. So horribly objectable, I know

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

EoN: If we were to get really technical, there are two types of girls with extras in my story - first, a species of androids able to reconfigure their sex depending on their partners. Their base bodies exhibit male or femaie traits, but they can attach a cock whenever it suits them.

Changeable attachments? You're just trying to make a fortune selling your droids extra parts and accessories, aren't you? First one's free, but after that?

 

[jaF0]

If'n a live appendage goesinta' a guy .....

 

[Blind_Justice]

Changeable attachments? You're just trying to make a fortune selling your droids extra parts and accessories, aren't you? First one's free, but after that?

Yes, they are very fond of upgrades, sidegrades and extra attachments. Besides the sexbot mentioned above, I'Ve featured a three-armed dock worker with a back-mounted hoist and a heavily weaponized bouncer in another of my stories. Modular construction ROCKS!

@JaF0: It's not as cut and dry as you try to make it. Sorry. Now I'm really happy to know what "non-binary gender definition" means. Neither the androids nor the atomic mutant futa have been born male, so the GAY MALE label does not fit, neither does "crossdressers." A point could be made for "transsexual", but even so, it doesn't really matter in Sci-Fi. I gave advance warning - plenty of it. With the edit I just submitted, there will be explicitly pointed out what goes where. Considering I have two stories with open GM content and NO warning and no one ever complained about that, I find this whole thing ridiculous. It's the second such instance on my stories within half a year. Last time it was not flagging off-screen abuse "correctly". Sheesh. Where are we again? Adult entertainment?

 

[AlinaX]

Category is everything. I doubt anyone would complain about futa-on-male in T&C, but clearly it can be an issue in SFF.

I don't understand your gender logic. People's genders don't necessarily match their external attributes. Most (almost all) futas are female-gendered, though some may see themselves as non-binary or other-specific. It's arguable whether machines and non-humans have an experience of gender at all, let alone something that translates to human norms.

 

[jsmiam]

Just projecting how people think, my guess is it was far more the futa’s penis than the alien tentacle that bothered that particular complainer.

Nonetheless, and it’s just an opinion, I think giving people a chance to back away is just fine. A sentence or two, Cover the bases and consider your job done. You just might save a reader a few minutes, and yourself too!

 

[KeithD]

Put MM in the keywords. Beyond that, the reader has responsibility for him/herself. It won't save you getting slam comments, but it should save you over worrying about them, and you can just delete those. Putting it in the keywords covers. Yes, the keywords should be up front, but that too isn't an author problem. People are supposed to be adults, taking responsibility for themselves, to use this site.