How long is too long?

[WyreBendr0417]

I was just curious as to what other author's consider too long of a story. I recently posted one that is just a touch over 77,000 words and turned out to be twenty-two pages in length after publishing on Lit. About half of the negative comments I received were people complaining about the number of pages, that nobody wants to read a story that long.

On the flip side I received positive comments saying they loved the story, and while it was long, it was worth reading to see the story develop. The number of followers I have, doubled after this story was published and the number of views surpassed my most popular story by 10,000. I know views can be misleading though, as a lot of them may be people opening the story then dropping it.

Anyway, I was just looking for some input to get an idea of how many other's on Lit write long stories. Thanks!

 

[GrantBricksly]

I have struggled with this very question myself.

Up until recently, all of my stories tapped out at a max of 3.4k words. But in November, I started writing for the winter holiday contest, and while doing that, I decided to look at previous contest winners. What I noticed..was that the vast majority of winning stories seemed to be in the 20-30k word range, with some higher.

So, I set out to do the same. It motivated me to do better, work at making my story more than just jack-off material. What I ended up with, was a 60k word story. Now, I didn't finish it in time for the contest, so I have not yet submitted. But, I've tried to get some editors to look at it (I figure I've got a year before I'm submitting, why not make it as good as possible, right?) and what I've found is that a lot of the editors I've contacted thus far can't handle a story that long. It's just too big a commitment.

But again, the winning stories in contests seem to be longer, well thought out developed stories. So, my thought is: If the story takes 77k words to tell, then so be it. If you feel like it is too much...maybe try to find a way to break it up into chapters. But, I don't think it's needed.

It sounds like other than comments, you've had a generally good response. More followers, and good views. How have your ratings been?

 

[Mnkinkcpl]

As a reader I prefer longer well developed stories, at times I'm actually sad when I come to the end because I want to continue reading about these well developed characters.

As a writer I tend to write longer works for the same reasons, I like well developed characters and since they are my creations I want to keep finding out what they do next.

 

[Demiurging]

I'll hardly bother reading anything less than two full pages, feels like I'll need something else after I'm done to feel satisfied.

As for twenty-two pages, you know what you're getting into when you see the page select, so that's on you if you complain. Some readers could benefit from a little introspection.

 

[Euphony]

Appropriate length relates directly to how well paced and compelling your narrative is. If you execute these well, you will have plenty of readers stay with you through the entire journey.

There are *some* readers who have a number in mind. Their denying themselves a more complex, broader story that requires more pages shouldn't shape your own writing all that much.

Padding and repetition are the banes of "too long" stories. More sex or more taboo sex acts just for the sake of them and not to further the narrative can drain life out of the back end of a story.

 

[GrantBricksly]

When I write erotic, I have 3 goals in mind, in a very specific order.

1st: Write something that will excite and turn on my wife.
2nd: Write something that I am proud of.
3rd: Write something that the readers want to read.

All of my writing works toward those goals, in that order. Now, that order has changed through the years, just as the way to accomplish those goals has changed.

Right now, a well developed plot/character driven story with some good, descriptive sex scenes is what is going to achieve #1. #2 goes kind of hand in hand with #1, I want to be so immersed in my story, that I have a hard time remembering that the characters/events/places are fictional.

#3, that comes from editing. Once I have #1 and 2 taken care of. I can fine tune it to make it work for others. But I also know that what does it for me and my wife, may not be everyone else's cup of tea.

 

[Bodington]

There is a category listed as Novels and Novellas in Literotica. The technical definition of a novel is a work of fiction exceeding 100K words. A novella then is a work of fiction containing more than 25K words but less than 100K words. Less than 25K words means you have a short story. Thus your work of 77K words clearly qualifies as a novella. If you presented it in one submission, the reader might find it tedious and lose interest.

Therefore it’s best to chop it off into chapters. Twenty-two pages in Literotica seems right as I noticed Literotica averages 3.5K words per page. So with 77K words if you work it into 11 chapters no chapter to exceed 7K words so that no chapter runs into a third page, I guarantee you will not get a complaint that your story is too long.

In fact you don’t have to list your work in Novels and Novellas category and you can even mix them up by listing each chapter in the category which best applies to the particular chapter. A reader can follow your work as Literotica alerts the reader at the end of a chapter as to what is the next chapter and what is the previous chapter of the series plus instant links to them as a convenience.

The downside to listing in the Novels and Novellas category is that you tend to get far less hits because the typical reader of Literotica is not interested in reading a full length erotic novel. As examples my most popular novel has 94.7 views for the first chapter and the first chapter of my very first novel has 71.9 views. I just submitted my seventh novel recently and the first chapter published on Nov 18 has only 1.8 views so far.

Personally I derive pleasure in concocting an entertaining plot so I’m not overly concerned about the number of views. I don’t receive too many comments but I do enjoy receiving an occasional positive comment.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

How long is too long? A story becomes too long IMO when it becomes boring. If it’s engaging and entertaining, I’ll keep reading as long as it lasts.

I suspect many of those complaining about a story being too long are more focussed on getting turned on vice reading a good tale which also happens to be arousing. Their loss.

 

[RejectReality]

I/T readers are hardly averse to long stories. The posterchild for long stories has always been Threads: The Island which is in I/T. I took a look at the comments, and while there are comments complaining about length, I suspect the other complaints are at the root of that complaint as well. If those comments are accurate, most of the sexual content is not devoted to the brother sister relationship. One also mentions anal and period sex, which can also be bugaboos for a large enough portion of the readership to cause problems as well.

The readers in I/T are there for their fix, and if they're not getting it for a significant portion of the story, it's certainly going to feel long to them. The positive comments hint that you delivered in the end, but a large portion of the readers never made it there to see it.

I'm just going by the comments here. I haven't actually read any of the story. Going by those, I suspect this is a story that was categorized properly, but was never going to be a big hit. The only other real option would be category hopping, and if there's any hints of the incestuous storyline earlier in the story, that's even more problematic than that strategy usually is. Sometimes, you just have to take the hit to tell the story you want to tell. If it were me, I'd have probably posted this one on a site with tag-based navigation rather than categories.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think there is such a thing as too long at Literotica, at least in terms of number of words. It's too long only if it's too wordy--meaning you've written too many words for the story you want to tell. Literotica seems to have a very high tolerance for very long stories. Not all readers will like them, but many do. The evidence for that is pretty clear.

 

[maryanek]

I love longer stories. Short smuts have sense for a quick fap but if I really want to enjoy the story development and immerse myself into the plot, I prefer longer, more ambitious stories.

 

[WyreBendr0417]

I have struggled with this very question myself.

Up until recently, all of my stories tapped out at a max of 3.4k words. But in November, I started writing for the winter holiday contest, and while doing that, I decided to look at previous contest winners. What I noticed..was that the vast majority of winning stories seemed to be in the 20-30k word range, with some higher.

So, I set out to do the same. It motivated me to do better, work at making my story more than just jack-off material. What I ended up with, was a 60k word story. Now, I didn't finish it in time for the contest, so I have not yet submitted. But, I've tried to get some editors to look at it (I figure I've got a year before I'm submitting, why not make it as good as possible, right?) and what I've found is that a lot of the editors I've contacted thus far can't handle a story that long. It's just too big a commitment.

But again, the winning stories in contests seem to be longer, well thought out developed stories. So, my thought is: If the story takes 77k words to tell, then so be it. If you feel like it is too much...maybe try to find a way to break it up into chapters. But, I don't think it's needed.

It sounds like other than comments, you've had a generally good response. More followers, and good views. How have your ratings been?

Thanks for your reply, Grant. I am the same way about not writing something for the sake of a quick spank. If I'm going to go to the trouble of writing at all, I want it to be something of substance. As for ratings, the story started out at a brisk 4.70. Since then, it has drifted down to a steady 4.48, which I'll take any day of the week. Personally, I don't feel the story is too long. I suppose I just wasn't prepared for the length to be a problem for some readers.

 

[MillieDynamite]

War and Peace is too fucking long! LOL

 

[GrantBricksly]

Thanks for your reply, Grant. I am the same way about not writing something for the sake of a quick spank. If I'm going to go to the trouble of writing at all, I want it to be something of substance. As for ratings, the story started out at a brisk 4.70. Since then, it has drifted down to a steady 4.48, which I'll take any day of the week. Personally, I don't feel the story is too long. I suppose I just wasn't prepared for the length to be a problem for some readers.

That is a very good rating then. I don't think you have anything to be worried about. Remember, you are never going to please everybody. It just isn't possible, so don't try. The few who do comment with complaints about the length, just ignore them. Or delete the comments if they bother you.

Write what you want, and write it the way you feel it needs to be written.

 

[WyreBendr0417]

As a reader I prefer longer well developed stories, at times I'm actually sad when I come to the end because I want to continue reading about these well developed characters.

As a writer I tend to write longer works for the same reasons, I like well developed characters and since they are my creations I want to keep finding out what they do next.

Thanks for your reply, Mnkinkcpl. I've only been writing for about two years now and almost everything I write turns out longer than planned, and I'm okay with that. I'm not any good at short stories. I haven't found the trick to putting everything I want to say into a smaller piece of work. As you said, I like the story and characters to continue developing until I feel I've taken them as far as I can or want to.

 

[Seadog777]

Personally for me..... Anything longer than 2 pages is too long on here.
Rarely do I read anything past 3 pages.
I will if it's an author that I follow or if I deem it to be a 4 star or higher from what I've read.
There are simply too many stories published on here everyday.
I'd rather a story be broken into multiple parts.

 

[Djmac1031]

I'm a short story writer. And I've accepted that.

I think my longest story so far is 4 LE pages.

Although that's not entirely true, because I've also done several series. So while technically each chapter is short, together they're a larger narrative.

As for reading stories myself; length is never an issue.

I'll read a 20 page story if it keeps me engaged but bail on a two pager if I'm bored by the third paragraph.

Long doesn't mean better, and short doesn't mean bad.

All stories have merit if they are well written and engaging.

 

[Dr_Strabismus]

The third line doesn't scan

 

[Bramblethorn]

Asking "what's the best length for a story?" is a bit like asking "what's the best size for a hat?"

 

[Djmac1031]

Just remember: it's not the size of your story, it's whether you know how to use it to get your readers off.

 

[WyreBendr0417]

I/T readers are hardly averse to long stories. The posterchild for long stories has always been Threads: The Island which is in I/T. I took a look at the comments, and while there are comments complaining about length, I suspect the other complaints are at the root of that complaint as well. If those comments are accurate, most of the sexual content is not devoted to the brother sister relationship. One also mentions anal and period sex, which can also be bugaboos for a large enough portion of the readership to cause problems as well.

The readers in I/T are there for their fix, and if they're not getting it for a significant portion of the story, it's certainly going to feel long to them. The positive comments hint that you delivered in the end, but a large portion of the readers never made it there to see it.

I'm just going by the comments here. I haven't actually read any of the story. Going by those, I suspect this is a story that was categorized properly, but was never going to be a big hit. The only other real option would be category hopping, and if there's any hints of the incestuous storyline earlier in the story, that's even more problematic than that strategy usually is. Sometimes, you just have to take the hit to tell the story you want to tell. If it were me, I'd have probably posted this one on a site with tag-based navigation rather than categories.

Thanks for you reply, RejectReality. I was not happy about the category 'Scratching An Itch' was put into. I/T was not my choice. I had selected Erotic Couplings for the category but the Administrator put it in I/T. The brother sister relationship was an aspect I hit upon about midway through the story so I did not feel I/T was the best place for it.

As for the period sex and anal I was never worried about that. I'm of the "if you don't try, how will you know?" sort of mind. I knew going in that those two subjects would not be for everyone, but they would appeal to some portion of the readership. Another fairly popular story of mine, a two part series, is about 60 to 75% anal, and I don't recall any complaints about it in the comments. Thanks again for your input.

 

[RejectReality]

Thanks for you reply, RejectReality. I was not happy about the category 'Scratching An Itch' was put into. I/T was not my choice. I had selected Erotic Couplings for the category but the Administrator put it in I/T. The brother sister relationship was an aspect I hit upon about midway through the story so I did not feel I/T was the best place for it.

As for the period sex and anal I was never worried about that. I'm of the "if you don't try, how will you know?" sort of mind. I knew going in that those two subjects would not be for everyone, but they would appeal to some portion of the readership. Another fairly popular story of mine, a two part series, is about 60 to 75% anal, and I don't recall any complaints about it in the comments. Thanks again for your input.

Period sex can be a problem anywhere, but Incest readers seem to have a bias against anal. It's disrepectful to your ( insert relative here ) to do that to them or something of that nature is the comment I've seen most often. The Anal category is actually quite popular. One of my top 5 in views is from Anal.

If there's any incest content ( outside of a few categories ) it's going to get put there, and unless it dominates the story, it's going to suffer for that there. There were a lot of complaints about Incest and Non-Con showing up in other categories a while back ( years now ) and Laurel started drawing a harder line on those two things going anywhere else. There's a semi-exception for the fantasy categories which lobbying was only successful for because those readers weren't making much noise during the complaint onslaught.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

The length of a written work is not, in general, a problem for me. I've read Gravity's Rainbow, Infinite Jest, and (yes, Millie) War and Peace, among many others. But I used paper books, often from a public library, which I could read at leisure. I suggest that an electronic medium is more difficult for people to spend vast amounts of time, and give long attention span. A few times, I've copied and pasted online content so I could read it offline, but depending on the source, this can entail too much rigmarole, and might edge to illegality. Also, many e-reading devices want commitment to proprietary software with barriers to outside content. The upshot is, I won't read online text that I consider too long, no matter how promising the quality seems to be. I'm certainly not an advocate for tree death, but at a certain point, online content's demand for bandwidth and energy seems excessive.

 

[Djmac1031]

I/T was not my choice. I had selected Erotic Couplings for the category but the Administrator put it in I/T.

Incest is one of those Hot Button categories. The people who love it LOVE it, of course.

But the people who hate it HATE it, and get very upset when they find it included in a story not clearly labeled as such.

I wrote a dark humored horror story for Halloween last year, and while it had elements of both incest and Non Con, it wasn't the main thrust of the story.

I published it under Erotic Horror, but at the beginning I put a clear warning that the story contained both incestuous elements and Non Con, and inviting any readers who might find those elements offensive to simply stop reading right there.

While the story didn't get the audience I wanted, and I think many readers missed the humor of it, I at least didn't get any complaints about the incest stuff.

 

[thomas1965]

I don't like to read more than 2-3 pages on a PC or laptop.
I think for really long stories the Novels and Novellas should be the right category.
Maybe you also could mention the word-count in the description.