How likey is publishing?

[Impetus]

Right, here's a question for authors and litteroticans more worldly than I.

I'll put out a hypothetical, but I think we can all guess who I'm talking about. Say a hobbyist author has written what would generally be considered a 'good' (not great, not bad) novel-sized story in, say, the fantasy genre. Assuming no experience in the literary field, how likely is it that said author could get is work published with any ammount of a) exposure and b) revinue from his work? Is it worth the effort to try and become published or is it too much work for someone whose livelyhood does not depend on being paid for said work? If yes, where would be a good place to start working toward this goal?

I thank you in advance for your time.

-I

 

[LivingUnicorn]

If you approach it like a hobbiest writer then your chances are a fat nil!

If instead you dedicate yourself to actively promoting yourself; formating the manuscrip professionally, researching the different publishers, and being undaunted by rejection after rejection, taking any comments the editors of the publications deign to give you then you have a slim chance of being published by say the tenth or hundreth publisher you send your manuscript to.

After you are published, your chance of getting any real money or exposure on your first novel is once again slim. A small pittance may be tossed to you but the real "payment" you will recieve will be in being published at all.

Second novel, depending on how badly or how well your first novel did in stores will be either just as hard or perhaps, just maybe, a little easier. This depends more on how good a job the publisher did getting your book out or whether he/she agrees to do a second run or your book once it sells out, than how good your book actually is. With a great deal of luck and an honest publisher you might actually get enough money from your second novel to pay the postage you spent sending it to a hundred different publishers.

And so on.

In truth far less than one hundreth of one percent of aspiring writers ever make it big. If you are not dedicated, persistant, and very thick skinned you most likely will never make it. This has very little reflection on your writing. Many, many, very good writers will never be published. There simply are more writers than there is percieved demand, so editors and publishers can pick and choose who they publish.

Now if I seem pessimistic, please forgive me. But it is better to have a realistic view than for you to run out and tell your current boss to go do nasty things to himself because you believe your book is the next Nebula award winner, only to find out that, for no reason better than his coffee was cold, every publisher declines your manuscript.

LU

 

[Omni]

There is also self publishing. I am a big believer in that, because as LivingUnicorn said, there are alot of great writers out there and besides contrary what the mainstream publishers believe, I do not think they are filling the publics demands.
With the advent of the internet, some new avenues in self publishing have opened up. Where before the cost and chance was prohibitive, now there are some offerings for self publishing that are not.
One place in particular that is intersting is Barnes and Nobles self pubishing offer. Also there are several E-Book Sites that offer to publish darn near anything on their sites for a small cut of the profit.
I know that I can never find enough to read out there, and perhaps in one small way, the writing authors out there, can shake up the main stream publishers clutch on the industry?
Of course this is only my humble opinion. <smile>


Omni

 

[Closet Desire]

Something...

...to think about.

There are over 5,000,000 books in print and in spite of the electronic revolution they are still being published with paper and ink at a phenomenal rate. Most published writers don't earn royalties to equal the amount of work it actually took to write a book in the first place. Even very successful writers tend to keep their day jobs. Asimov wrote over 100 books in his lifetime yet kept his post as a science professor (bio chem I think). Only a tiny handful hit it big time and it's like everything else--right place, right time, right publisher, right reviews, right everything.

Yes, I get royalties every quarter and it certainly does my ego good, but I sure wouldn't want to live off it.

Fantasy is one of the toughest things. When I started out looking for publishers and agents (something I thankfully don't have to do anymore) fantasy and sci-fi were the only categories that were often refused up front as in "don't even bother to send it."

What was said about perseverence and a thick skin is spot on. If you like what you're doing just keep doing it.

Don't rule out the Barnes and Noble programme which is actually known as www.iuniverse.com (nearly 100% owned by B&N). If you're into self-promotion, running your own web site, and pounding the pavement for reviews it can be successful. Publishing with them led to contracts with Bertlesmann Doubleday and others so it's one possible path.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Impetus]

Much Gracious thanks.

Truth be told, I really am not set and determined to get published, and so I likely won't even try. If I can get a few *thousand* people to read my story here, than I suppose that's all the personal gratification I need. And thousands of readers seems like par for the course around here. I've had 'publishing' nagging me in the back of my mind as something I might have wanted to try out. It's actually nice to know, realistically, where that stands in the realm of possibility. Gives me a better sense of where I need to set up my creative walls.

I thank you all for your honest feedback, It'll keep me from burning time on something that it doesn't seem to be particularly fulfilling or likely, but that's only if you're me.

-I

 

[peterpan]

I am not informed on the issue, but starting with trying to get short stories published would seem a good idea...

..on the other hand there seem to be as many novels as short stories now days...I don't know what the market for short stories is anymore.

I have certainly heard all the horror stories about how hard it is to get published too. People write books about it. I wonder how many of those got published?

Its all our fault though. Look at all the thousands upon thousands of hours of writing effort that are being displayed here for free.

 

[Tropism]

ebooks?

`

 

[Route66Girl]

Cynical view

Anybody here ever see a movie called Wonder Boys with Michael Douglas and Tobey Macguire? In it, there's a rather despondant moment in which Douglas's writing professor character, Gordon Tripp, says:

"What does it matter what I think? Nobody thinks anymore. And if they do, it's not about writing. Writing... books... nobody cares about books. Not anymore."

That's about how that statement went, give or take a phrase or two. And it rang true for some reason. Maybe I just don't know enough people who read, but it sure hit home for me. No one I know sits around and discusses literary merit.

I've thought about taking the trouble to try and publish sometime when I feel my writing is ready, but, if I feel that way, what's the point?

Or maybe it's just late, and I'm half-drunk...

Never mind

 

[its Leslie]

Getting published is like getting a job.

If you settle for working at MacDonald's you will only be able to work at Macdonalds.

Getting published requires a few reality checks.

Do you even know how?

Do you know who actually does the publishing?

Does it really matter to you?

Are you ready to actually put out the effort (because it is about more than just sitting there writing).

I could be writing professionally all day long all week long and quite well off.
I could also be strutting naked with a hard on, in front of half drunk women that want to touch my cock, in a seedy little bar.

All depends on what you want in life.

I think of myself as a househusband that has enough time to write erotic fiction cause I can. When suitably motivated I work in my woodshop and make an occasional item (some even for a modest profit). I had hoped to be way to busy running a strong business by this time now, almost 10 years after I got stuck with fybromyalgia.

But life is not about secure notions. Next year I could be successfully writing erotic fiction commercially. But well, I currently dont have enough interest or actual need.

 

[Closet Desire]

well said...

Writing erotica, novels, and even an occassional academic piece are part of my life--even a passion--but I haven't chosen to do it full time. I feel a bit sheepish because I don't have to scrabble for a publisher anymore and the cheques do come in. I even had the pleasure of telling Virgin Books that I wasn't interested. Maybe I'm afraid that if I "had" to do it some of the magic and passion would fade. I started out loving work on my PhD and by the time I finished I gagged everytime I thought about it. I do it because I love and it and I do it when I feel like it.

I have several friends who have written and published books but had no success. True, they didn't try to sell them to reviewers who could get them coverage. They sat back on their arses and thought "the world will now come to me." The world just went on about its business. Now they are bitter and instead of thinking they could have done something different they blame the world--the whole damn world--for not recognising their genius. Some of them are still writing in the belief that it will be their lucky break. I think most successful people know that lucky breaks are few and far between and that with a bit of luck it takes loads of work. There will always be those who think fame and fortune waits on the lucky number in the lottery. Nearly all will be disapointed.

I'm also passionate about the large business I run. It's exciting and challenging. The financial rewards are enormous. Frankly, it makes me secure enough to say "I think I'll write another book now."

There aren't really any free rides.

I do disagree with those who think it has changed, that the honour has gone out of the literary tradition, but it isn't true. Fact is, it was always a crappy business. The novel has only been around since the French Revolution--yeah it's that new. It was a helluva thing to get published and even then the writers usually got screwed. Only a few made it big and some of those you think made it big didn't. Dickens wrote serials for the penny dreadfuls. Bronte's Wuthering Heights was first published by a hack and she saw no royalties from it. Many books that did take off didn't benefit their authors because they were published AFTER the copyright expired. Some authors like Scott fought back by printing "copyright editions" with renewed rights, but readers didn't care--they just bought the cheaper versions.

Things haven't really changed in all these years.

 

[MysteryWriter]

i think

the odds on a unpublished writer selling his first novel are about the same as those of a man finding his wife a virgin on his wedding night. It does happen i am told.

 

[Closet Desire]

Gosh...

...the odds are better than I thought!

 

[Sabledrake]

My first experience with getting published was one of the "Do Not" stories. Fell in with a shady agent and basically got screwed in all the ways that aren't fun.

It soured and embittered me to the point that I self-published my second and third fantasy novels (the MageLore trilogy), and despite the awful scarlet stigma attached to self-publishing, I enjoyed the experience -- I had control, and the books are out there for people who want to find them (signed copies direct from the author now available, btw!).

My determination in going around to cons with my 'body of work' eventually got me two big breaks -- an audio book publisher who is producing my horror novels on tape (Black Roses, coming this summer to a tape deck near you), and a small-press publisher who signed for the second fantasy trilogy (ElfLore) and is interested in the next one. It's not big money, but having two companies that like my work is a warm and comfy feeling.

Short stories might also be a way to break in, and it's odd how connections happen. For instance, I got two entries into a game supplement, and then the fellow who edited that got a gig putting together an anthology, so I sent him a story, he bought it, and that story was just nominated for an Origins Award in the category of Best Game-Related Short Work. Look for The Book of All Flesh, featuring my story, "Dawn of the Living-Impaired," at book or game stores near you!

Sheesh, what a bunch of shameless advertising for my books!

Anyway, short stories. For those who can write them, every sale is another publication credit, and that makes editors more likely to look seriously at the next one.

But making money in the business is no easy prospect. It will be a long time, if ever, before I'll be able to quit my job. I have met and spoken to many professional authors at conventions and most of them are in it for the love more than the cash.

Sabledrake

 

[Closet Desire]

nicely done...

My story's close. Got in with a shady publisher...rescued my manuscript before they filed bankruptcy and self published. Shamelessly promoted the books as they were written and finally got noticed by bigger publishers. So cool.

About those short stories. Our books are usually anthologies of short stories--including some from writers here on lit--and such collections of erotica are actually very popular. Literotica has even done one called Literotica.com.

Lots of the better known erotica anthologies like the Mammoth Books and Herotica publish short stories that have already been published so go ahead, be shameless, and write these people.

All they can do is say "no" and then you have something to add to your reject letter file. I'm very proud of mine--only my divorce file has more paper in it!

 

[MysteryWriter]

ah publishing

I lost my desire to publish when I found out how difficult it was. Not to mention that I write in a style that is not going to get any critical acclaim.

I had an agent tell me to hire a book editor and then we would talk. Of course he sent me the name of the editor he recommended. the editor proceeded to send me letters at a rate sufficent to have used up a good sized pine tree.

If I truly wanted, needed, or felt the required ego massage to publish, I would hire a good proof reader (Not editor) and then have someone do it. Pay the price, then sit back and watch them turn yellow in my closet. I do not say anyone else publishes for those reasons, but they would be my only reasons. I frankly enjoy the writing and hell I enjoy the combat with others writers here but I don't really have the burning desire to see my name on a book jacket. I have been told I set myself up to fail. Well that one is going a little too far for me. Rofl.

I too have a stack of rejection letters. I had planned to paper my office with them but It would have cost me about a grand in postage to get enough. So they lay in a drawer somewhere.

 

[PrincessKatie]

Views....

I don't care about publicity.
I write my storys on literotica for fun and enjoyment not just for me but for all those who read my work.
OK so I am not the best writer in the world and make a load of mistakes but so what-I am helping to give people what they want-sexual storys that turn them on and maybe make them cum in the process

This is how I see things and that's the way it's gonna be.

 

[MysteryWriter]

You get my vote

I hope here is room for all kinds of writers with all kinds of reasons to write. If there isnt, then is like incest. Too small a gene pool. You know what that causes.... Banjo music in the background.

 

[Closet Desire]

Setting up to fail?

That seems a bit harsh. It sounds to me like you're doing what you like (and that's a good rub on the ego whether you admit it or not) and that's the hot fuel for any creative spirit. And, I notice from your web site, you're sharing your work with other people. Same drive just a different style.

There are loads of good writers on here who have no desire to publish their work and, like I said, that's the essence of creativity.

One of my best friends is an artist and he does the sketches and covers for our books. He would sketch and paint whether anybody wanted it or not. His real income is from "pushing a mouse" ie. commercial graphics, but his heart is in his pencil.

Art is creation and what is done with it after that is purely optional.

 

[MysteryWriter]

like i said

I sure hope it is a big enough boat for us all.

 

[Sabledrake]

Closet Desire > sooo ... when's the next anthology and what are the guidelines?

Sabledrake

 

[Closet Desire]

MysteryWriter...

It's a very big boat so it takes lots of us to rock it! No fun if it doesn't rock!

Next book eh? Closet Desire III - Twelve Days is off to publish next week. Working on CD IV - Flights of Fancy is next anthology and, after looking at your website (wicked!), might just be up your alley. The avatar is one of the photos being sketched for the book. Maybe a Lord of the Rings kind of flavour. We'll see what develops.

Some info on our web site at www.closetdesire.com but I'll email details as I don't use Laurel's site for promotion. Nice people Manu and Laurel and I try to follow their rules.

Now where's my life preserver?

 

[MysteryWriter]

ah but

I am the master boat rocker... or merely foolish take your pick