How do you write a novel?

[TadOverdon]

(You could read the title as a cry for help, I suppose)

I guess this thread is me giving voice to challenges I'm having on my current project and hoping for insight from the experience and practices of other writers here.

It's a little(?) overreaching to say that I write novels. I write stories that are long enough to be called novellas and one published so far that barely bumps the bottom edge of novel-length.

The action in them ranges over periods of years, they feature a relatively large cast of characters, they take place in a variety of settings from chapter to chapter. So, in that sense, novels. On the other hand, they feature barely the armatures of contrived plots to set up chapter after chapter of sex between those characters in different combinations. So, basically, old school stroke fiction.

Anyway, the current book is kicking my butt. It's slower going because the mechanics of the Highly Unlikely Series of Events is more complicated this time. And that jury-rigged barge is then foundering in the shallows of what has always been my How I Write method, which is:

• Sketch out the central events of the opening, final, and pivotal chapters before beginning to write prose;
• Write the first chapter;
• Move back and forth through the book fleshing out and adding to major scenes and events as they become clearer to me. This usually means inserting additional chapters and creating new characters in addition to the core characters that I start with.
• Revise earlier paragraphs and scenes to match up with new inventions as I go.
• Rinse and repeat until the whole thing is ready to be revised front-to-back.

So the book grows from little islands of prose into continents of scenes bumping into one another to form chapters and finally the Gondwanaland of a book. It's not, as you can see, a very organized or well-sequenced plan of attack.

It kind of works. Except right now, not so much.

So, do other people write chapter books, whatever you choose to call them? I've read a few from authors in the Hangout that are certainly novellas. Do you plan these all carefully? Do you just know every beat of the plot when you start to keyboard? Or is a lot of it improv for you, too?

 

[Acktion]

Everything under Acktion was purposefully written short as I was trying to squeeze something out every day (or at least every day my health would allow me to sit up) in an effort to be somewhat competitive in the last couple of Survivor Contests. And were largely written from idea to submission in a single session (usually to their detriment).

My singular submission under Ewobbit and most of the ones under PuckIt were novellas. But, I can't really be said to have planned anything.

Heatstroked, for example, turned out to be twenty-five screens. Mostly because I was having too much fun cockblocking the couple in as inventive ways as I could imagine that filtered back into their individual psychologies. It probably would have been even longer except my lovely late wife pointed out that our anniversary was coming up and she would be damned if she was going to put up with me writing still more for her to read and give feedback on rather than spending our anniversary with her. So, I wrapped it up that night and went back to what was actually important.

Thankful, submitted a couple of months after her death, I had a rough general idea of where I wanted to start from and where I wanted to get to, with a few waypoints to touch on along the way. But, often I didn't really have any idea just how the characters were going to choose to work in those waypoints until we got there.

It might be worth noting that this approach flies directly in the face of every class, seminar, book, or magazine article I've ever encountered that states clearly you should outline and then flesh out the outline. But, frankly, I've tried doing that and it just bored the ever-loving shit outta me. It's way funner to create the characters and just try to keep up with the shenanigans they pull on me so that I get a bit of the "first read" rush while writing.

It might also be worth mentioning that far, far more flame out on me than get finished out too.

 

[TadOverdon]

It might be worth noting that this approach flies directly in the face of every class, seminar, book, or magazine article I've ever encountered that states clearly you should outline and then flesh out the outline. But, frankly, I've tried doing that and it just bored the ever-loving shit outta me. It's way funner to create the characters and just try to keep up with the shenanigans they pull on me so that I get a bit of the "first read" rush while writing.

Yeah, I think the only way I wind up finishing these on anything close to a schedule is that if I sit down and find myself stumped on the scene I've been working on, I roam around the manuscript looking for a scene or bit of dialogue or action that gets me charged up and then I write that scene instead that day.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I write one word at a time.

 

[lovecraft68]

Just keep the story going I guess.

I've written several, but I'm the worst person to give advice because even with a novel I'm a total fly by the seat of my pants style writer, same as a short story, I know where it starts, where I want it to end and the journey is told as I go.

I have learned that in a series that becomes a lot more difficult as anything you write is etched in stone and everything that happens in future books has to adhere to that.

I've written myself into several corners trying to be clever and had to struggle to extricate myself from the mess.

 

[MillieDynamite]

no need to worry about things fitting together Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series is rife with the prequels contradicting established facts in Lonesome Dove. Of course, the general public might not be as forgiving to you as they were McMurtry, and I shouldn't bring up his faults in plotting as he is dead and my momma told me to write ill of the dead.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Or is a lot of it improv for you, too?

I always write and plot on the run. When I embarked on my hubris project - my take on the Arthurian myth - I had the broad premise of the mythological characters, and knew I had to get to a dead bloke on a boat in the mist in the end. Other than, I just started writing, and the characters and plot dramas evolved as I got to them.

The whole time line and what to do with it revolved around the fundamental point that Artur the King hasn't even been conceived in the beginning - so the beginning had to go further back - and the traitor son definitely hadn't been conceived (and who was his mother?). But if I'd got all bogged down with plot notes and chapter outlines and the stuff that you're doing, it would never have been finished.

So I'm probably the last person to give you advice, except, "Start writing, continue, and when you get to the end, know when to stop."

Good luck, don't be daunted, and get on with it!

 

[SamScribble]

In my world, novels are first and foremost about characters and character. Some novels require a tight plot, others not so much.

In the novel which I am currently writing, the three main characters are anchored by a location: a cottage on the sea shore. In as much as the novel is a story, it is the story of one of the three main characters. I knew her story before I wrote a single word. The other two principal characters are her former lover and her current lover (who is also the narrator).

By the time that I reach the end, I expect to have introduced another 20 or so other characters. Some of these secondary characters I already know well. Others I expect to reveal themselves as the story progresses. A couple of them are already surprising me.

I have two main ‘rules’ as I write. The first is to continually answer the question: What happens next? The second is to ensure that each character remains ‘in character’.

I am pretty disciplined in my work habits. I aim to produce at least 500 more-or-less finished words a day. Some days I produce a thousand or more. I aim to tell the story, initially, in about 70,000 words. After polishing, it will probably grow to about 75,000 words. But that’s all. I don’t do doorstops.

And, as EB says: don’t be daunted. Get on with it. Good luck.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Anyway, the current book is kicking my butt. It's slower going because the mechanics of the Highly Unlikely Series of Events is more complicated this time. And that jury-rigged barge is then foundering in the shallows of what has always been my How I Write method, which is:

• Sketch out the central events of the opening, final, and pivotal chapters before beginning to write prose;
• Write the first chapter;
• Move back and forth through the book fleshing out and adding to major scenes and events as they become clearer to me. This usually means inserting additional chapters and creating new characters in addition to the core characters that I start with.
• Revise earlier paragraphs and scenes to match up with new inventions as I go.
• Rinse and repeat until the whole thing is ready to be revised front-to-back.

So the book grows from little islands of prose into continents of scenes bumping into one another to form chapters and finally the Gondwanaland of a book. It's not, as you can see, a very organized or well-sequenced plan of attack.

It kind of works. Except right now, not so much.

So, do other people write chapter books, whatever you choose to call them? I've read a few from authors in the Hangout that are certainly novellas. Do you plan these all carefully? Do you just know every beat of the plot when you start to keyboard? Or is a lot of it improv for you, too?

I've written two here. Neither were originally intended as novel structures, but I got some way in and realised "this wants to be a novel, better treat it like one".

My process, such as it is, focusses on planning interpersonal arcs. At a very broad level it might look something like:

- Establish S and A's background: they meet when A is a child and S is her tutor, so A looks up to S as a mentor.
- After several years of occasional contact, they meet up again when A is an adult and begin a relationship.
- Time passes, stuff happens including but not limited to steamy sex, the dynamic shifts as A grows older and they become more like equals, while S has to move from being A's protector to her friend.
- The relationship reaches its natural end, and both of them deal with that.

As it goes along, I then fill in the specifics, working out what specific events happen to support that plan. Sometimes that feeds back into the interpersonal dimension. In this example a third character L emerged halfway through the story and became significant, which added a new friends-to-lovers arc to the story; at the same time, A's family dynamics became important. Those two strands interacted with the original plot and with one another, so I had to do some organising to synchronise things (Scrivener worked well for this).

Some writers like to take a more event-focussed approach, and I will use that for some stories, but both my novel-length stories so far have started with thinking about how I want relationships to progress, and then let that guide the course of events.

 

[KeithD]

My novels have more threads in them and, mostly, more characters as well, than the shorter works. I don't do outlines for shorter works--I just have notes written that will keep me from having to stop and do deep research as I write. For novel-length works, and I have about a dozen of those, I outline the first five or six chapters before I start to write. These usually spin out to be ten or twelve chapters as I'm writing. I rarely map out the ending. I have one in mind, but I give the plot and characters some freedom to assert themselves and I'll go with a different ending if one I think is better than the original idea crops up.

 

[TadOverdon]

Mine do tend to wind up as considerably different stories than I started out to write, and there are always characters who take off on their own and refuse to follow the beats I'd laid out for them. That makes the writing more fun, but it can tear unexpected holes in the sort-of plot.

 

[Sextified]

So the book grows from little islands of prose into continents of scenes bumping into one another to form chapters and finally the Gondwanaland of a book. It's not, as you can see, a very organized or well-sequenced plan of attack.

It kind of works. Except right now, not so much.

I have written basically three very large world building-type novels, and a short prequel. About 1.6 million combined words or so, in the main story and other adventures set in its universe. The root of the story started here on Lit in 2007.

Recently, I started over from scratch, to try and produce something sellable. I also wanted to use all of the tricks I have learned the last few years. I'm about 800 paperback pages into the project.

- - - -

There are a few differences in our similar approaches. I NOW tend to only 'mentally' write advanced material. As I go through out my day, I am always thinking about my characters and their backstories. I sort of shadow play what would happen, if a few of them should meet 'outside' the story, where the 'camera' couldn't see them.

I find that doing so much 'thinking' away from the keyboard is extremely helpful.

- - - -

In front of the computer I NOW do only a few things.

• Edit old chapters.
• Write new material in sequence
• Re-read the most recent PDFs that I have sent to my Pre-Readers
• Read and send emails discussing their thoughts on the new chapters
• Work on reducing my bad writing habits
• Surf my favorite Porn sites to relax and do 'research'

It's rare that I just ever sit there and stare at a blank page. By 'pre-thinking' away from the computer, I find that my actual writing time for NEW material is very effective. If it is not, I immediately stop, so I don't end up writing things that I simply will have to reject later.

- - - -

I am in the dubious position of having a wealth of old material and ideas, to try and update and marry to new threads and characters that I already love just as much.

I've found it very difficult, and a tremendous amount of unnecessary redo work, to keep trying to 'Patch' islands of scenes together. The feel of whenever I do that yields a bumpy and uneven narrative, filled with odd sections that lose focus in the reader's minds.

- - - -

If you are having problems? Take a short break. Make a PDF of your entire file. Something that you can ONLY read and that you will NOT edit. I find coming across mistakes, and NOT being able to immediately fix them, is VERY helpful to my own creative process.

It forces you into a 'Reader' mode.

- - - -

I'd like to suggest something to you that FINALLY worked for me last year. Start at the beginning of your story, and read the PDF straight thru, at least until YOU just can't stand it any longer!

Then stop reading, and make a firm commitment to get back to your keyboard and go thru the very start of your book. One page at a time. Fix all those things that stood out when you could ONLY be a reader. Do not jump around any more. Don't type anything ahead of your 'focus' point.

THINK all you like about the FUTURE parts of your plots - Just don't write any more on them! - Not ONE single keystroke!

Imagine an iron, only smoothing out the wrinkles in a single chapter. There is no need to worry about the next wrinkled shirt in the hamper. At least not yet.

Then find some helpful writers or readers, and send them a PDF of a few chapters of that revised cohesive story. Let THEM tell YOU what they think. If you disagree with them on a few points? Defend your position and reasoning, if you can!

Don't worry! You are still in control! It is still your story!

- - - -

I have found that by having three dedicated pre-readers, from very different backgrounds, that when I edit I do so with a purpose and goals in mind. They are only influencing how the final 'look and feel' comes across on the screen. At least for me, the main plot and driving force behind the story stays unchanged, but what is finally taking shape is so much better than all of my other SOLO efforts!

I now have a Page 1 . . . and a continuous unbroken line to . . . Page 283.

The fact that I still have an unfinished draft that goes far beyond Page 1000? It no longer bothers me so much. I am so happy to have my paltry little 283 pages before SOMEBODY else's eyes!

- - - -

The same sort of thing that you are going thru made me miserable for years. You appear to be looking for something different, that will help you begin to finally FINISH a little bit more each time you sit down at the keyboard.

I was the same way.

It took learning to 'ignore' all the future outlines . . . and learn to use them as only 'source' material . . . and concentrate on the 'now' of the story I am trying to create.

- - - -

I will STILL have LOADS of changes and editing to do someday. But that is then. Not now. Creating a finished novel from beginning to end is my goal. I simply strive to create a little more 'settled literary ground' each day.

- - - -

Hopefully you will discover your own path, and become a little less overwhelmed by the size and scope of your project. Taking a defined break does help. Rereading your old work, but NOT allowing yourself to tamper with it, can be an eye opening experience.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have.

I've struggled a LOT with large projects like this, and have more than a few tricks that work on getting past issues like you are facing right now.

Hopefully this will help!

 

[Blind_Justice]

I'd love to learn the exact opposite: How NOT to write a goddamn six-figure word count abomination.

Joking aside, for me it's relatively easy. Once I have an idea, I pin down the crucial plot points in an outline, set up my characters (by creating record sheets for them), make sure I have my setting and rule sheets* ready and then it's just a matter of putting words to paper. The difficult part is connecting the interesting scenes with transitions which don't suck.

* - since I mostly write Sci-Fi and Fantasy, I keep notes for most major locations and how magic and tech works, to keep things consistent between my stories. There are few things I obsess more about than internal logic and consistency. For example, I get horribly annoyed when characters in a role-playing game, their backpacks full of healing items, are doomed to watch a person die because the script writer needed said victim to croak in dramatic fashion. Instead of listening to the sob-filled death monologue, pour a fucking healing potion down their gullet! Cast that "Cure" spell!

 

[SimonDoom]

I've written one novel-length story so far -- my 8 chapter mom-son incest series.

I think the key is that I pretty much had it mapped out when I started. Not all the details, but the overall arc.

I knew how it would end right from the start. I even wrote the ending long before I got to it. So everything I wrote was for the purpose of getting to that end. For me, this is a crucial aspect of it.

I had two characters, so I had to give them unmet needs. One, the son, who was the first person POV character, fully disclosed his needs to the reader from the get-go. The other, the mom, the non-POV character, didn't fully reveal her needs until the end, through dialogue, but they played a role in what she did every step of the way.

Over the course of the story I threw in various obstacles that got in the way of the characters' needs -- friends, an ex-husband, appearances, jobs, etc., and, most notably, the taboo against incest itself, which they struggled with.

 

[TxRad]

Like Blind_Justice Said, what is this write short you speak of?

The first story I ever wrote was 20 chapters and would fill a 287 page paperback book. It's posted here at Lit in a non-edited form.

I have three novels in Mainstream that came from a non-erotic story I posted here. Someone e-mailed me and asked if I had more along the same lines or could expand on what I had. I thought it was a joke until I got a phone number and called it. When a publishing house receptionist answered, I still thought it was a joke until I asked for the editor I had e-mailed with and was put through.

I did another trilogy in scifi and then tried my hand with Young Adult novels. I have a dozen of those written, half are published and the rest are waiting their turn.

So, how did I write them all? Sit down with an idea and start typing. Once I get the story going, it writes itself and I just type. A very simplified explanation. I have the general idea for the story arc and something of an idea of the ending I want. Since i work more as a storyteller than a writer, it has to flow from one point to the next or my mind won't let it go.

I write everything by the seat of my pants. No outlines and usually no notes. I do keep a set of facts to keep in mind, character descriptions, names, places, ect in the story itself but a page down from where I am writing. I call it my reference section. It saves me time and effort having to go back and comb the story for stuff I need that i laid Easter eggs for earlier.

Writing is learned as you go. Write and then write some more. The more you write the more your brain figures out what works. Tell the story and don't leave out the details. The fun part is knowing what details are needed and what is not.

A lot to learn and the only way to learn is to write. I'm still learning. Now if I had paid better attention back a hundred years ago in English class it would all be easier. Especially on my editor. I'm glad she has a sense of humor and likes me.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Especially on my editor. I'm glad she has a sense of humor and likes me.

Only coz you pay your bills on time, and give her the next chunk of work .

 

[TxRad]

Only coz you pay your bills on time, and give her the next chunk of work .

She gets paid by the publisher but yes, I keep her supplied with work. So far, she has only rejected two of my novels and one of those got reworked to fit what they had in mind. I've worked for three different divisions of the same publishing house but only had the one editor.

As a side note: Writing for Lit is fun. Writing for pay is a J.O.B. They have standards and what they want, they get. It has to fit the division you are writing for. I have to come up with the ideas and the story but it has to fit their criteria.

 

[Erlikkhan]

I agree with most of the comments that advise to begin with an idea and let your imagination explore as you write. You'll go down some dead end roads on occasion, but you'll be surprised how the story comes alive and changes. Something I do is write a first person one page biography of each main character where they introduce themselves, their backgrounds, likes and dislikes, family, pets, etc. The first person bio helps me develop the personality and voice that the character will carry throughout the novel. I apply the same exercise to new characters that get introduced as I write. Well developed, believable, and consistent characters are key to the novel's success. Once the readers are invested in them, they will be hooked, and so will you.

My two cents from an amateur writer's perspective.

 

[KeithD]

The problem with writing a full description and background for each character before composing the book is that it encourages you to overwork at getting details on a character into the story that don't serve the story in any way. It's the same with some of the other research. You become a captive to "I collected it, so I have to use it" and the danger is that the readers get a flabby read with a lot irrelevant "stuff" in it that bogs the story down.

 

[TadOverdon]

I agree with most of the comments that advise to begin with an idea and let your imagination explore as you write. You'll go down some dead end roads on occasion, but you'll be surprised how the story comes alive and changes. Something I do is write a first person one page biography of each main character where they introduce themselves, their backgrounds, likes and dislikes, family, pets, etc. The first person bio helps me develop the personality and voice that the character will carry throughout the novel. I apply the same exercise to new characters that get introduced as I write. Well developed, believable, and consistent characters are key to the novel's success. Once the readers are invested in them, they will be hooked, and so will you.

My two cents from an amateur writer's perspective.

I've only gone down a blind alley that ended in throwing out chapters once, and I'm not near that on this one. It's good to be reminded of that. Thanks.

I work with another writer, usually, which helps. Other than that, no one i know IRL ever reads what I write - as far as I know.

Transitions suck for me. I avoid them when I can. Just break scene where it seems to want to end and jump to another.

 

[PennameWombat]

The problem with writing a full description and background for each character before composing the book is that it encourages you to overwork at getting details on a character into the story that don't serve the story in any way. It's the same with some of the other research. You become a captive to "I collected it, so I have to use it" and the danger is that the readers get a flabby read with a lot irrelevant "stuff" in it that bogs the story down.

I’ve stumbled across a mainstream novel that exemplifies this. Plot is a small group of US Army soldiers are transported from modern Afghanistan to Palaeolithic ‘Afghanistan’ (unclear so far, maybe around 14 or 11,000 BCE, but unclear if before or after the Younger Dryas given temps). Anyway, the author obviously did major research on primitive skills (finding wild foods, which animals were known to be in the area, butchering and preparing meat and gathering edible plants) with some modification for the limited modern equipment they have (body armor, mobile phones, some solar chargers, two trucks, their weapons, ammo, knives, and small amounts of MREs.)

The author has taken the view that “I’ve learned all of this so you are going to as well. In excruciating detail.” Not only that, but he’s literally had everyone sit around the campfire and give their life stories (from those descriptions and backgrounds he lovingly created.)

There’s the possibility of a better story but it needs to happen quickly or this will be an unfinished - by me - book.

And no, not self-published. It’s through Baen Books, so there were actual, real editors involved. Oh well. Edit: It’s an audiobook through Audible and my package includes the ability to return it and exchange. So… getting close.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Hmmm... my first submission here was a novel length series. I also have several others.

The first, Walker Brigade was originally submitted in five parts, but has since then been condensed a little (88k words, down from 110K words) and submitted as a whole.

Another, Warrior One - Fleet Action, is in eight parts, most of which are about 40K words long except the last one which is now in editing and is about 30k.

Neither of these was plotted out per say, I had the entire thing mapped out in my head and just started typing. I do keep a list of characters and important dates and place, etc. But, I really don't write a synopsis on each chapter. I just sit and type what is already in my head.

I know one day soon, I might lose that ability due to my age, but I think I'll die before that happens with all the other things that are wrong with me.

I also have quite a few novella length pieces of over 40K words.

 

[PennameWombat]

I have two close-to-novel-length single story entries here:

Adrift in Space and Predators, both around 70,000 words (give or take). The first one worked better than the second. I rushed to get the latter in for Geek Pride this year and it really needed to be put away and reworked. Instead of a theme I had a few and none really stood out.

They’re actually in the same universe (Mel’s Universe) which has a chaptered serial slowly rolling out (5 entries so far at around 20-25,000 words each) as well as a number of other stories and series that fit into the universe.

Overall, I have a spreadsheet of characters, but that’s little more than physical characteristics (hair, eyes, age, height and such). I also have timeline notes. I know the long arc of all of this, but don’t do detailed outlines. I do pay attention to continuity and did edit and resubmit one story to ‘fix’ something that had zero negative effect on that story but I know from comments I have at least one follower paying attention across the various stories and that would’ve been noticed

 

[TadOverdon]

I have two close-to-novel-length single story entries here:

Adrift in Space and Predators, both around 70,000 words (give or take). The first one worked better than the second. I rushed to get the latter in for Geek Pride this year and it really needed to be put away and reworked. Instead of a theme I had a few and none really stood out.

They’re actually in the same universe (Mel’s Universe) which has a chaptered serial slowly rolling out (5 entries so far at around 20-25,000 words each) as well as a number of other stories and series that fit into the universe.

Overall, I have a spreadsheet of characters, but that’s little more than physical characteristics (hair, eyes, age, height and such). I also have timeline notes. I know the long arc of all of this, but don’t do detailed outlines. I do pay attention to continuity and did edit and resubmit one story to ‘fix’ something that had zero negative effect on that story but I know from comments I have at least one follower paying attention across the various stories and that would’ve been noticed

There's usually a point at which I have to jot down ages and a few physical characteristics for most characters. Ages in particular tend to become slippery when they remember or talk about events earlier in their lives and relationships. I'll forget things like eye color for many characters, from chapter to chapter. And it has come up more than once in a book a couple of times.

Of course, I'm forever changing names. Bit of a proofreader's nightmare. You'd think search-and-replace would solve it, but no.

 

[8letters]

My stories are often novella-length, and my last was novel-length. How do I write my stories? One day, I'll have an idea for a story. Typically, I'll have all of the major plot points in the initial story idea. And then I'll picture the different scenes in my head, working out the dialogue. Once the story has filled my head, I start writing it down to get it out of my head. Then, the story is as long as it takes to tell the tale that's in my head.

Edit:
My theory for how most readers read stories on Literotica is that they look at the title and the rating and make the decision to click on the story. I then have a certain amount of time to sell them on my story - a few paragraphs, a half a page, a page; depends on the reader. Once I sell them that this is an interesting story, they'll keep going to the next page as long as I keep the story interesting. I can have just one sex scene in the story at the very end, and if they story is interesting they'll read to that final sex scene. If I have multiple sex scenes, each sex scene before the end should be interesting so that the readers keep reading the story.