G
Guest
Guest
How do you switch to Java?
Different Guy
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Posts
- 418
Java is fucking evil!
Sorry about my tone of language only I'm learning it in University and its so hard and oh God I hate it so much... The programming side of it that is...
Sorry about my tone of language only I'm learning it in University and its so hard and oh God I hate it so much... The programming side of it that is...
flawed_ethics
Professional Dufus
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2001
- Posts
- 1,193
I've dabbled in light programming/whatnot, took a programming class with JAVA as the language, so I feel I have some right to complain.
It is evil. I don't think it works particularly well. Yea, it's cross OS, but given how many resources it takes to establish it - it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
Some operands are the same as BASIC and C/C++, if(), then(), else(), with >=, <=, and the like. Variables have to be assigned as to what thype of variable they are (boolean, floating, etc...)
Methods and classes. He he he. A headache that is kinda neat once you get used to their structure, but until then - eek!!
I don't think it would be too hard to convert from C, you would just need to commit yourself to acknowledge the differences.
It is evil. I don't think it works particularly well. Yea, it's cross OS, but given how many resources it takes to establish it - it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
Some operands are the same as BASIC and C/C++, if(), then(), else(), with >=, <=, and the like. Variables have to be assigned as to what thype of variable they are (boolean, floating, etc...)
Methods and classes. He he he. A headache that is kinda neat once you get used to their structure, but until then - eek!!
I don't think it would be too hard to convert from C, you would just need to commit yourself to acknowledge the differences.
ifitsfundoit
I can't believe that's me
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,398
flawed_ethics said:
Without a good grounding in OO concepts, Java, C++ and their kind are simply scary languages.
I write OO code at a high level with a "4GL", and it's bad enough there with only a few hundred classes.
By the time you get to Java, C++ with thousands, it's a shocker.
And interfacing with Windows is a complete pain in the arse. It would be OK if the API calls remained the same from one version to the next and the MSDN documentation was clear.
But...that would be too much to ask from Messysoft.
Best of luck
Different Guy
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Posts
- 418
Amen to that
ifitsfundoit
I can't believe that's me
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,398
Different Guy said:
Too fucking right.
Prayer and the power of God are your only friends in the murky world of Java.
Different Guy
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2002
- Posts
- 418
Maybe but whatever you do, don't pray because you will soon start to think, there is no God!!!
Did you know complete programs of code can explode because of a misplaced CAPITAL letter... it's true and horrible. That's in Java by the way using a program called JCreator.
Did you know complete programs of code can explode because of a misplaced CAPITAL letter... it's true and horrible. That's in Java by the way using a program called JCreator.
ifitsfundoit
I can't believe that's me
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,398
Different Guy said:
Case sensitive languages are one of the dumbest things in the murky world of computing.
How in common sense can "GetDate" be different to "getdate"??
What the fuck is the point? It's all very nice have uppercase characters in the source to make it look nice and read well etc., but the tool should be able to recognise that a word is a word regardless.
After 40 years or so of the IT industry, I find it hard to believe that people still create language with case sensitivity.
And Java is yet another example of propellor heads creating something for propellor heads, and NOT for business benefit.
Just my two cents
ifitsfundoit
I can't believe that's me
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,398
ifitsfundoit said:
and worst of all.......
it's not even a runtime overhead to make the editor/compiler case insensitive. Just a VERY SMALL overhead for the developer when compiling.
It's just fucking lazy.
God it pisses me off.
Thanks for listening
C'mon now, Java isn't that hard. Everything makes perfect sense. I'm not sure what exactly we're talking about here. Web apps? **********? Full application programming? Video games? 
Case-insensitivity? That's a low-blow; if you use those languages at all, you won't make case mistakes after the first few hours... I hated Basic and Fortran's insensitivity. Just get used to writing your variables and procedures in standard UML style and you're fine. (Hungarian notation, I believe) So, you'd always write "d_getDate", the d signfiying the return type as a date.
If you're upgrading from C, you just have to break your procedural mindset, but that won't take long. If you're coming from C++, Java is heaven-on-earth, compared to the mess of high-level code mixed with low-level code. Although I kinda prefer C++ for some odd reason... I think I just prefer the low-level handling of pointers...
Case-insensitivity? That's a low-blow; if you use those languages at all, you won't make case mistakes after the first few hours... I hated Basic and Fortran's insensitivity. Just get used to writing your variables and procedures in standard UML style and you're fine. (Hungarian notation, I believe) So, you'd always write "d_getDate", the d signfiying the return type as a date.
If you're upgrading from C, you just have to break your procedural mindset, but that won't take long. If you're coming from C++, Java is heaven-on-earth, compared to the mess of high-level code mixed with low-level code. Although I kinda prefer C++ for some odd reason... I think I just prefer the low-level handling of pointers...
Java != evil
{first post: be gentle}
I program Java full-time. It's probaby the best language I've used. It's easier to learn than C++, and it's much more powerful than pretty much anything else I've used. Though I will admit VB can be very powerful with all of the built-ins that Micro$oft gives you. But I digress....
As the lead on several development projects where we hired contractors to code, I love the fact the language is case sensitive. There is a wealth of undisciplined programmers on the market. If they can capitalize a variable/method/class/etc differently, they will. You'll see:
BigDecimal blah;
BIGDecimal blah;
bigdecimal blah;
... there are many combinations ...
Personally I hate that. Java is very consistent in it's use of case. If you learn it and follow it, it's very expressive. I can distinguish a class from a variable from a method by name alone.
As for a resource hog, that's if you start writing GUI apps with it. I write exclusively server-side code (J2EE). It's the most powerful language I've ever used for web development, and I've been doing development for about 10 years and web development for over 6 years.
Oh, and one other positive for Java, you can start writing it for the low, low price of $0. Try that with pretty much any other language. The amount of free and/or open source tools out there is untouchable by most other languages.
Anyway, that's my $0.02.
OSA
{first post: be gentle}
I program Java full-time. It's probaby the best language I've used. It's easier to learn than C++, and it's much more powerful than pretty much anything else I've used. Though I will admit VB can be very powerful with all of the built-ins that Micro$oft gives you. But I digress....
As the lead on several development projects where we hired contractors to code, I love the fact the language is case sensitive. There is a wealth of undisciplined programmers on the market. If they can capitalize a variable/method/class/etc differently, they will. You'll see:
BigDecimal blah;
BIGDecimal blah;
bigdecimal blah;
... there are many combinations ...
Personally I hate that. Java is very consistent in it's use of case. If you learn it and follow it, it's very expressive. I can distinguish a class from a variable from a method by name alone.
As for a resource hog, that's if you start writing GUI apps with it. I write exclusively server-side code (J2EE). It's the most powerful language I've ever used for web development, and I've been doing development for about 10 years and web development for over 6 years.
Oh, and one other positive for Java, you can start writing it for the low, low price of $0. Try that with pretty much any other language. The amount of free and/or open source tools out there is untouchable by most other languages.
Anyway, that's my $0.02.
OSA
S.Daedalus
Affliction of the damned
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2002
- Posts
- 1,504
Java sux.
I have programmed java for a while now as well as C++ and a few others. C++ is the best language I’ve programmed in yet!
Visual Basic is HORRIBLE!! The only good thing about VB is there Naming conventions. I do like the UML type naming convention, but VB does it sooo well.
intNumber
strName
lblName
txtName
etc..etc..fantastic!
But JAVA..esspecialy if you are doing any sort of GUI!!
Forget it. Don't do GUI in JAVA. And don't use any sort of dev. Environment like JBuilder or anything like that, cause the overhead on those things is just huge and it's not real SUN JAVA API. Borland has created their own API for JAVA in JBuilder and it's horrible.
Either way, Java looks easy and is fairly easy but once you start doing anything complex, java just takes to much time and resources.
Oh and a comment on the CASE SENSITVE. Lets go back to COBOL! ALL CAPS!!!WHOOOHOOOO.
I have programmed java for a while now as well as C++ and a few others. C++ is the best language I’ve programmed in yet!
Visual Basic is HORRIBLE!! The only good thing about VB is there Naming conventions. I do like the UML type naming convention, but VB does it sooo well.
intNumber
strName
lblName
txtName
etc..etc..fantastic!
But JAVA..esspecialy if you are doing any sort of GUI!!
Forget it. Don't do GUI in JAVA. And don't use any sort of dev. Environment like JBuilder or anything like that, cause the overhead on those things is just huge and it's not real SUN JAVA API. Borland has created their own API for JAVA in JBuilder and it's horrible.
Either way, Java looks easy and is fairly easy but once you start doing anything complex, java just takes to much time and resources.
Oh and a comment on the CASE SENSITVE. Lets go back to COBOL! ALL CAPS!!!WHOOOHOOOO.
...more...
I agree. When I was programming solo, I liked VB quite a bit. I liked the naming conventions for variables and controls. It lost its luster when we got into team development and I worked with people that weren't as disciplined as I am. I started seeing this in code:
Dim intDuration As String
They would start off doing it right, but once they needed to change the type of a variable, they didn't change the name. That's when it lost its appeal to me.
I also agree about GUI development in java. AWT and Swing blows. Swing is a good model, but too cumbersome and slow in my experience. There are some good alternatives coming. Take a look at Eclipse (www.eclipse.org). That is an all-java editor and the GUI is fast. They are developing their own windowing framework (SWT I think) that is better optimized and links to native libraries.
However, do some J2EE development with Java in a web environment. It shines there. I've used Oracle app server with PL/SQL, done CGI, done some PHP, done some ASP. None of them hold a candle to the J2EE framework. The portability shines there too. Get a JDK on a server, and you can probably run your web app since most of the app servers are all java.
Oh well, on my soap box again.
OSA
I agree. When I was programming solo, I liked VB quite a bit. I liked the naming conventions for variables and controls. It lost its luster when we got into team development and I worked with people that weren't as disciplined as I am. I started seeing this in code:
Dim intDuration As String
They would start off doing it right, but once they needed to change the type of a variable, they didn't change the name. That's when it lost its appeal to me.
I also agree about GUI development in java. AWT and Swing blows. Swing is a good model, but too cumbersome and slow in my experience. There are some good alternatives coming. Take a look at Eclipse (www.eclipse.org). That is an all-java editor and the GUI is fast. They are developing their own windowing framework (SWT I think) that is better optimized and links to native libraries.
However, do some J2EE development with Java in a web environment. It shines there. I've used Oracle app server with PL/SQL, done CGI, done some PHP, done some ASP. None of them hold a candle to the J2EE framework. The portability shines there too. Get a JDK on a server, and you can probably run your web app since most of the app servers are all java.
Oh well, on my soap box again.
OSA
