How do you feel about Fan Fiction?

[Guest]

There have been a few discussion threads here of late on fan fiction, and I know opinions and debates go on all over the interwebinet. How do you feel about it?

 

[3113]

Oh. That was a tough choice you offered! On the one hand--and as you pointed out in another thread--there are some good books have been written that carry on the characters originated by another author. Like Sherlock Holmes. And some characters are essentially public domain. What I mean by that is that they were created to be handed off to other writers.

Like Star Trek, for example. Those characters were not created by Roddenberry (et al) to be written about just by him. They were made up and freely handed out to other writers--t.v. writers, movie writers, novelists, etc. So trying to make them exclusive is a little ridiculous. It's not like, as in some cases, only the author can really write the characters well and everyone else is messing them up.

On the other hand....

I sometimes think that in the case of popular characters from books, the fans should be forced to wait till the author is long dead before being allowed to play with them. And some really should not be touched. I really don't want to read Tolkien's characters in a story written by anyone but Tolkien.

I understand, heaven knows, how seductive good characters are. I understand the fantasies and dreams people have--the desire to play with them and expand the world they live in. I understand wanting to fill in blanks and back stories, and I understand wanting to continue a legacy that might have ended prematurely. And as an author who knows other authors, I can attest to the fact that sometimes a writer doesn't always see all the possiblities of a character--and fans can inspire and make writers want to come back to characters.

All this, I grant. But I think fans should have a little more reverence if you will, a little more respect for the toys they want to play with. The characters are alive thanks to the talent of the writer. You can take up the puppet, but if you don't really know how to speak in the right voice, move the strings in the right way, then you really shouldn't be playing with it. Some toys are precious and should be handled only by those who know their worth and how to use them as intended.

Others...others are action figures and you can do what you like with them.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I don't write it.
I don't read it.
I don't have any abiding animosity to those who do either.

The most significant failing I have seen in fan fic, is the author takes it for granted everyone reading knows the characters as well as he does. I rarely do. So I'm left with distressingly shallow character sketches and actions that make no sense at all since I didn't see episode 34, back when Character X revealed her darkest fantasy to character Y while she was in the hospital yadda yaddda yadda.

 

[Tom Collins]

It's just fun and people should pull the weasle out of their asses about it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I am assuming that "fanfic" means stories written about popular television or other media characters. I have written a story about Kelly Bundy. It was fun doing, and I think I stayed true to the character. I wrote one about the cast of "Friends" and set it after a rehearsal. The six characters stayed in character during the orgy we had. I also wrote about Mrs. Giggles but that was classified as Group Sex. I think it's a fun category but writers should try to keep the characters in character.

Maybe there should be a Fanfic category in addition to Celebrity.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Obviously, as the writer of some of the worst slash ever, I have no problem with it. It's not easy to make someone else's characters come to life and I know a lot of people who do it remarkably well.

 

[JamesSD]

I don't write it.
I don't read it.
I don't have any abiding animosity to those who do either.

Ditto

 

[elsol]

*burp*

It's like having my best friend flirt with the girl, talk to her, take her out, set up the 'first' time, get her nekkid... and then I walk in to stick my dick in.

I'm sure it works for some people... and if it were certain women I would so NOT complain... but not for someone I actually liked myself.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[LadyJeanne]

I didn't realize people were riled up about it.

 

[Weird Harold]

Like Star Trek, for example. Those characters were not created by Roddenberry (et al) to be written about just by him. They were made up and freely handed out to other writers--t.v. writers, movie writers, novelists, etc. So trying to make them exclusive is a little ridiculous. It's not like, as in some cases, only the author can really write the characters well and everyone else is messing them up.

I think there is a difference between a "shared universe" and "Fan Fiction." Sometimes the latter can meet the requirements of the former -- a la the "Friends of Darkover" anthologies published by the late Marion Zimmer Bradley; where the original creator/copyright holder agrees with the interpretation of their vision.

Personally, I tend to think of "Fan Fiction" as "Lazy Fiction." As Colly mentioned, the majority of Fan Fiction tends to rely on the reader also being a fan and therefore no effort to establish a character is required by a FanFic writer.

For those who write Fan Fiction, a question:

Would you have any qualms about submitting your story to the original author/copyright holder for approval? (Disregarding potential erotic content issues.)

If the answer is no, then you probably shouldn't post the story; save it for your own use.

PS: I didn't vote because none of the options fit my feelings about Fanfic. Some is very good and some is very bad. Where a fanfic violates the characters' integrity the original creator/copyright holder should take action to preserve their vision.

Hogwarts, for example, is not, and should not be portrayed as, a hotbed of orgies and deviate sexual behavior -- especially not a Lit because it also has predominately underage population.

I mention Hogwarts, because JKR has expressed her concern (and displeasure) about the "non-family-friendly" trend in HP Fan fiction.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think there is a difference between a "shared universe" and "Fan Fiction." Sometimes the latter can meet the requirements of the former -- a la the "Friends of Darkover" anthologies published by the late Marion Zimmer Bradley; where the original creator/copyright holder agrees with the interpretation of their vision.

Personally, I tend to think of "Fan Fiction" as "Lazy Fiction." As Colly mentioned, the majority of Fan Fiction tends to rely on the reader also being a fan and therefore no effort to establish a character is required by a FanFic writer.

For those who write Fan Fiction, a question:

Would you have any qualms about submitting your story to the original author/copyright holder for approval? (Disregarding potential erotic content issues.)

If the answer is no, then you probably shouldn't post the story; save it for your own use.

Mrs. Giggles actually enjoyed the story I wrote about her. I don't know if you would call it fanfic or not but she did. Kelly Bundy has always been portrayed as beautiful and promiscuous and dumb and that's how I portrayed her. As for the cast of Friends, I showed the women as a lot sluttier than they ever were on the show. Phoebe was the ditzy one in the story just like in the show, but I don't know about otherwise.

 

[Weird Harold]

Mrs. Giggles actually enjoyed the story I wrote about her. I don't know if you would call it fanfic or not but she did. Kelly Bundy has always been portrayed as beautiful and promiscuous and dumb and that's how I portrayed her. As for the cast of Friends, I showed the women as a lot sluttier than they ever were on the show. Phoebe was the ditzy one in the story just like in the show, but I don't know about otherwise.

Staying true to the characters is really the point of my question. IMHO, far too much fan fiction, especially erotic fanfic, tends to ignore the established characters and take them in directions that aren't consistent with the original vision.

Kelly Bundy, as you point out, is an ideal character for almost any erotic situation -- as long as you don't try to make her an innocent, virginal genious.

The cast of Friends as celebrities might have all sorts of hidden kinks, but the characters they portray probably don't -- I'd have a lot of trouble a lot of trouble buying Pheobe as a closet dominatrix, for example.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think there is a difference between a "shared universe" and "Fan Fiction." Sometimes the latter can meet the requirements of the former -- a la the "Friends of Darkover" anthologies published by the late Marion Zimmer Bradley; where the original creator/copyright holder agrees with the interpretation of their vision.

Personally, I tend to think of "Fan Fiction" as "Lazy Fiction." As Colly mentioned, the majority of Fan Fiction tends to rely on the reader also being a fan and therefore no effort to establish a character is required by a FanFic writer.

yep, that's it in a nutshell- although it's not really laziness. The article mal posted in another thread- touched on the main point, I thought, when it said that for many women, erotica is only arousing when they know and give a damn about the protagonists. Fan Fic is a way of setting that up. Yes, I can read a story about a favorite character and find it arousing. In fact, I've found (and I posted here once) erotic fiction about characters from a Nickleodeon cartoon- that was so right on and funny, and sexy- (at least untill it descend into angst) talk about a guilty pleasure!
If I don't know the canon, I don't give a hoot about the fiction, because the writers don't introduce you to the characters. Personally, I'm grateful for this- it causes several metric tonnes of bad fiction to drop off my radar But Kelly Bundy, whom i do know of, has no appeal for me either, nor do the cast of "Friends". Zip appeal.

For those who write Fan Fiction, a question:

Would you have any qualms about submitting your story to the original author/copyright holder for approval? (Disregarding potential erotic content issues.)

If the answer is no, then you probably shouldn't post the story; save it for your own use.

Hear, hear!
However, you're pretty much preaching to the choir here. Much of the fan fic world is made up of excrutiatingly bad writers... oh,wait, you're about to mention that

PS: I didn't vote because none of the options fit my feelings about Fanfic. Some is very good and some is very bad. Where a fanfic violates the characters' integrity the original creator/copyright holder should take action to preserve their vision.

Hogwarts, for example, is not, and should not be portrayed as, a hotbed of orgies and deviate sexual behavior -- especially not a Lit because it also has predominately underage population.

I mention Hogwarts, because JKR has expressed her concern (and displeasure) about the "non-family-friendly" trend in HP Fan fiction.

Someone else that finds that a little disturbing! But the characters are growing up, you know... and the legions of fourteen-year-old-minded FF creators and comnsumers don't goive a shit about your opinions, or Rowlings, either.

The rabid attitudes of the FF world are what disturb me.
A woman who is nearly my age, skilled, in fact- taletned- was in tears the other day because of her futile battle with her fandome community. Why bother? I wouldn't. but it's importatnt to her.

 

[Aurora Black]

I like it. A lot. It captured my imagination, stirred my creative passion. If I hadn't read or written the fan fiction that I have, I seriously doubt I'd be writing anything at all today. Fan fiction was my start; I remember reading other Gabriel Knight fanfics online several years ago, and some of them were written so badly (others were exceptionally good) that I began to think "I can do better than this." It was a challenge that I couldn't resist.

A few years and several half-assed attempts at writing later, I began my fanfic masterpiece and love letter to the GK universe, "Dark Impulse." I plunged into it, unsure where the story was going to take me at first, but then I began to research, plan and outline what I wanted to happen in the story like actual writers do. *gasp*

At some point, DI ceased to be just another fanfic and became an unofficial novel. Right now it's 24 chapters long with an estimated 110K words under its belt. This story opened the door, set off the chain reaction that eventually moved me to write mystery, horror and erotica, and brought me to Lit. I'm very thankful.

ETA: Also, since writing this huge fanfic project was the closest thing to writing an actual novel that I've experienced thus far, now I have no qualms about writing one of my own. Before, I was scared shitless (excusez-moi) at the thought of writing my own characters. However, now that Dark Impulse is coming to an end, I'm okay with writing something new. Something completely mine. I can't wait.

 

[rgraham666]

I would have voted for all of the above if I could have. People write fanfic for all kinds of reasons and with all kinds of results.

I don't often read fanfic, but the biggest problem is that too often the writer is so wrapped up in the fictional world and the characters that they don't make the effort to write a good story. As if just getting the idea down on paper was enough.

So I never connect with the characters and no characters means no story, for me.

 

[Just-Legal]

Like others, I started as writing fanfic. My main "serious" characters I use on Bardic Web STARTED as fanfic characters (not actual characters from a series, but based in that world), but grew and developed into their own universe to play in, and wonderful things have come of it.

So no, I don't think all fanfic is evil. But some fanfic writers should be taken out and shot for being DRASTICALLY out of character... *shudders*

 

[Weepingguitar]

Well, fan fiction can be a gateway for many writers who have difficulty developing their own characters. Of course, the quality of fan fiction is as varied as any other genre of writing. Whether it's good or bad is decided upon by the talent of the author. Most of my early writing projects were works of fan fiction, and I wish I could find and destroy all copies of most of them, lol. I am mildly proud of my final fan fic though. (even though I'd still be a bit embarassed if someone I knew found it and read it)

Having spent my early internet years swimming through masses of fan fiction, I learned that you can't judge the quality of the stories on the fact that the author did not create these characters. There are some stories out there that I will be in love with forever...there are others where the authors should probably be hunted down and br forced to read their own horrific creations 24/7.

For me, fan fiction is just like any other section on this and other sites. There are some real works of art, and there are some real stinkers.

 

[FallingToFly]

Personally, I tend to think of "Fan Fiction" as "Lazy Fiction." As Colly mentioned, the majority of Fan Fiction tends to rely on the reader also being a fan and therefore no effort to establish a character is required by a FanFic writer.

I've run across this attitude a few times, and I don't understand it. I won't read fanfic that doesn't flesh out the characters, explore who and what they are, and I wouldn't expect any one else to. My H.I.M stuff is fairly -ok, just get in there and do it- but that was a bit of a different situation. :S MY other fanfiction (as well as the second H.I.M story I started which is going to have a Search and Replace done and become a marketable work, because it's just too damn perfect) is more about exploring the facets of the character that were missed in the canon pieces.

(Draco Malfoy as a terrified, and having no way out, teenager caught in events he can't control and can't turn to anyone for help is a perfect example. I had a lot of fun with exploring that, as well as the plot for the sixth Harry Potter book. And, on this particular subject: JK Rowlings can bitch all she likes about fanfiction- if the last three books hadn't been so fuckign predictable, we wouldn't be so desperate to make good stories out of them- we'd be rereading!!)

For those who write Fan Fiction, a question:

Would you have any qualms about submitting your story to the original author/copyright holder for approval? (Disregarding potential erotic content issues.)

Absolutely not. I'm confident enough in my own writing to look at another author and say "Yes, I write fanfiction, and yes, i've written some based on your work. Would you like to compare notes on how I see your characters versus how you see them?"

I would never attempt to sell fanfiction (as in, selling a story entitled "Orgy in the Astronomy Tower" with all canon characters in place and no credit to tthe author anywhere) as my own work. Will I post my fanfiction ramblings for my friends to be amused at. In a hot damn minute. And, for me personally, the fanfiction itself is not the end result. I am a cannibalistic writer- if this will work better in this story... it gets ripped out and recycled. It's why i have stacks and stacks of files in hard copy, highlighted, notated, and edited to hell and back. If I get locked out in a story, I start looking for a key.


PS: I didn't vote because none of the options fit my feelings about Fanfic. Some is very good and some is very bad. Where a fanfic violates the characters' integrity the original creator/copyright holder should take action to preserve their vision.

Hogwarts, for example, is not, and should not be portrayed as, a hotbed of orgies and deviate sexual behavior -- especially not a Lit because it also has predominately underage population.

*coughchokescough* Uhm... you've never been to boarding school, have you?

QUOTE]

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I don't think it's "lazy"... if it's done well.

I think the draw of fan fiction is that it continues the story of a world and characters you've become very involved with...

really, I read fanfic because I "miss" the characters... I liked spending time with them, and it's fun to watch them do new stuff

That said, all I read is Buffy fanfic... so my scope is limited...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I haven't really done much, if any, yet. But when I do, it will be because of the power trip mainly. The idea of controlling the behavior of someone whose behavior I see as a waste of his or her potential. There is a god-like sensation to it.

I have written one story that could be celeb. It was about Jesus of Nazareth's parents, Joseph and Miriam. It's called Heavenly Night. That was just my own pet theory, though, put into erotic form. And it's tame compared to my BDSM, incest, and group stuff. Or my sci-fi, for that matter.

Oh, actually, I have also written a story featuring the mythical Hebrew woman Lilith, supposedly the first wife of Adam. I reshaped the story of Lilith, though not in an unflattering way toward her. The existing story never made much sense to me, particularly why a domineering, cruel, and abrasive wife would invent fellatio. IMO, the story was twisted, and Lilith became gradually bossier and more cruel, as well as more hedonistic over time. It was as if the oral tradition (no pun intended) wanted a sexually "loose" woman to be deemed evil and dangerous, not to mention attacking her for having any sense of her own value as a human being. But I digress.

The point is that I made a lot of changes to the Lilith story and added an ET element to it, as well as a Darwinist one.

 

[zeb1094]

There have been a few discussion threads here of late on fan fiction, and I know opinions and debates go on all over the interwebinet. How do you feel about it?

You forgot one option!

None of the Above.

or

I don't care, don't read it.

 

[Guest]

You forgot one option!

None of the Above.

or

I don't care, don't read it.

Zeb, honey, then -- without meaning to be rude, which I'm kinda gonna be anyway -- why would you bother to click on this thread? If you don't care and you don't read it, then...you don't have an opinion I'm looking for, do you? So why would I offer an option for someone who doesn't have an opinion? (aside from the ceiling fan one, of course)

 

[Equinoxe]

[threadjack]

Oh, actually, I have also written a story featuring the mythical Hebrew woman Lilith, supposedly the first wife of Adam. I reshaped the story of Lilith, though not in an unflattering way toward her. The existing story never made much sense to me, particularly why a domineering, cruel, and abrasive wife would invent fellatio. IMO, the story was twisted, and Lilith became gradually bossier and more cruel, as well as more hedonistic over time. It was as if the oral tradition (no pun intended) wanted a sexually "loose" woman to be deemed evil and dangerous, not to mention attacking her for having any sense of her own value as a human being. But I digress.

I don't recall it happening quite that way in the story, but perhaps I haven't read the same version.

The version that most people are familiar with, with Adam and Lilith being married and having a sexual dispute (over who gets to be on top), is first known to appear in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, which is a book of unknown authorship dating from about the 8th-10th century. In other sources, the story is different and often inconsistent, as myths tend to be.

She appears a few times in the Talmud, just as a sort of demon, and in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the same capacity. The Zohar mentions her a fair bit, but in somewhat contradictory fashion, some occasions seemingly related to the version in the Alphabet of Ben Sira and others not. Incidentally, the word "Lilith" appears once in the Bible (in Isaiah), but it's not clear what it's referring to, and is translated as various things, including owl. In the end, most sources treat her basically a Succubus who gives birth to demons and kills small children, sometimes as the consort of Samael.

There is another interesting part which relates to the idea of Adam, in rather Neo-Platonic fashion, being originally both male and female though. In varying versions related to that, you have Adam and Lilith originally being the same person and in others Adam and Eve originally being the same person. Either version has also been used to explain how in Genesis, when God creates humanity "male and female created he them" and yet later God creates Eve from Adam.

Ultimately, Lilith is most likely a composite character derived from Sumerian and Babylonian sources, which aren't particularly more favourable to her.

[/threadjack]

 

[JackHarrison]

[threadjack]



I don't recall it happening quite that way in the story, but perhaps I haven't read the same version.

The version that most people are familiar with, with Adam and Lilith being married and having a sexual dispute (over who gets to be on top), is first known to appear in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, which is a book of unknown authorship dating from about the 8th-10th century. In other sources, the story is different and often inconsistent, as myths tend to be.

She appears a few times in the Talmud, just as a sort of demon, and in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the same capacity. The Zohar mentions her a fair bit, but in somewhat contradictory fashion, some occasions seemingly related to the version in the Alphabet of Ben Sira and others not. Incidentally, the word "Lilith" appears once in the Bible (in Isaiah), but it's not clear what it's referring to, and is translated as various things, including owl. In the end, most sources treat her basically a Succubus who gives birth to demons and kills small children, sometimes as the consort of Samael.

There is another interesting part which relates to the idea of Adam, in rather Neo-Platonic fashion, being originally both male and female though. In varying versions related to that, you have Adam and Lilith originally being the same person and in others Adam and Eve originally being the same person. Either version has also been used to explain how in Genesis, when God creates humanity "male and female created he them" and yet later God creates Eve from Adam.

Ultimately, Lilith is most likely a composite character derived from Sumerian and Babylonian sources, which aren't particularly more favourable to her.

[/threadjack]

Yes, having read his stories (I'm such a great fan that my username is almost identical to his pen name on another site), I can say that it is a MUCH different version. A lot of alien/gods, undead gods/demons, and a polygamous Adam.

 

[3113]

Happy Passover!

[threadjack] Either version has also been used to explain how in Genesis, when God creates humanity "male and female created he them" and yet later God creates Eve from Adam.[/threadjack]

Continuing the threadjack--they use it because they don't want to admit that the story starts out with "gods" creating man and woman...and Adam/Eve being created by only one of those Gods (Jehweh) and kept isolated from the rest in the Garden of Eden.

Further evidenced of this is seen when Cain goes off and finds a wife in the land of Nod and by the birth of his son Enoch, he finds enough folk to help him build and populate a city. Obviously, men and women were created prior to and outside of Adam and Eve. The use of the word "Gods" plural, continues on and off through Genesis (Tower of Babel story, for example) indicating that once upon a time, the Hebrews had no trouble believing that there were other gods...they just weren't allowed to worship any of them ("No other gods before me" says Jahweh--not "There aren't any other gods but me!" and "I am a jealous god"--indicatings that there are other gods you could worship...because if there was just him you could worship who you liked, it would still be him by another name, wouldn't it?).

This puts an interesting spin on the Passover story (see how relevant this threadjack is!)--because it means that Moses is represenative of his god doing battle with Pharaoh who represents the Egyptian gods, and it's basically "My god can beat up yours!"

Which, Jahweh does--note that in the story, the Pharoah's priests throw down sticks which turn into snakes. Moses tosses down his staff, which becomes a snake that eats the other snakes. So who turned the staffs of the priests into snakes? Egyptian gods (unless you want to suggest a Devil--not in the old testament--or that Jahweh is playing both sides--possible since he "hardens" pharoah's heart, but it certainly turns Jahweh into a very strange deity with some serious psychological problems....no disrespect, just a personal observation there.)

End of threadjack. And Happy Passover!