How do you end it?

[rikaaim]

Recently I've been noticing the increasing threads on dating. I was just curious...if after a date or two, and things aren't working out, how do you end it?

Let me rephrase...

It's date number 4. Things are okay, but not spectacular. You know it's not really going anywhere. The other person is showing as much interest in you as the mold growing are your bread at home. What do you do to end it?

I mean...what's a mautre and respectful way that's not all this cliche bull?

I'm not in the market myself...thankfully, for now anyway.

I just see all the people who get let down, or dropped down in some cases, and wonder what's the best way to just break off the relationship earlier, that's both respectful and honest. Is there such a thing as a mutual and mature breakup between two adults? Is this the fabled "Holy Grail" of dating? Is it the impossible task? Share your thoughts and discuss please. I'm rather curious.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

If the fourth date is considered by either of you to be a relationship, there's already a problem in your thinking. The fourth date is the fourth date. If you're still counting them, you're not really together.

ANd the best way to end anything is to be honest, and to say what needs to be while avoiding any unnecessary elaboration. What they need to know to be comfortable with what you've said (not to like it, but to understand without having eight-thousand questions circling in thier heads and feeling like they did something wrong). That's pretty much the only right way to handle anything though, if you think about it.

Q_C

 

[rikaaim]

If the fourth date is considered by either of you to be a relationship, there's already a problem in your thinking. The fourth date is the fourth date. If you're still counting them, you're not really together.


Q_C

There in lies the problem. I've never been in the dating "scene". I don't know what's what here. At what point does it become a relationship? How long should you give the "dating" a chance before giving up? If you have a really bad first date, do you give them a second chance? Maybe it was just an off night. I'm just don't know at what point the hope is over and the time to move on just comes around.

 

[rikaaim]

Well...keep discussing. I must be off for the night. I'll check back tomorrow and see what the general consensus is.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

My people skills aren't the greatest, but I know that a relationship is a feeling, not a number. You can date someone once and have them ship out to Iraq and be hopelessly committed to them till they get back.

If you're not clicking by the 4th time together, just roll it up. Even I could do a "Look, this isn't really working, is it?" and have. Usually it's such a relief that the two of you might actually start having a good time.

 

[Op_Cit]

Hey, what's wrong with using Doc's idea ("I'm shipping out to Iraq tomorrow..." )?

Oh, wait, nevermind.

Actually, this is one that I'm very curious about. I'm also curious about who does the breaking up more frequently, men or women? Is that part of the issue in this question?

 

[rikaaim]

Hey, what's wrong with using Doc's idea ("I'm shipping out to Iraq tomorrow..." )?

Oh, wait, nevermind.

Actually, this is one that I'm very curious about. I'm also curious about who does the breaking up more frequently, men or women? Is that part of the issue in this question?

It very well could, and should, be. Honestly...are women just as likely to be the forceful one and break it off? Do you, women, feel more compelled to just sit back and let the guy take lead and end it? I don't know. I'm curious and find this whole, ritual as it were, rather interesting.

 

[Boota]

I dated a girl a few times and it just wasn't clicking for either one of us. On the third date I just said, "This isn't working out like I thought it would." That opened a discussion on what each of us expected and we ended up enjoying the rest of the date without the pressure of it being a "date". We're still friends today.

The only thing I could add is to reiterate what has already been said. Be honest.

 

[elsol]

Have we fucked yet?

I mean I'm not giving up on spectacular until we've had sex at least five times.

a) First time doesn't count... cause you can have comfort issues.
b) Second time... you're a little more comfortable but you can't be sure both your grooves are in synce.
c) Third time, everything should be cool... but come on, everyone needs to get their practice swings in.
d) Okay... you're in sync; you've practiced; dress rehearsal.
e) If it sucks now, it's not going to be spectacular but still might be worth a booty call so you can't be rude and say "I'll call you tommorrow" and not call.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[LadyJeanne]

If I don't find myself looking forward to seeing him, I don't think he'd get to the fourth date. If he did, he'd be someone I'd like to be friends with, so I'd want to make sure he understood that I'm happy to see him without wanting to take it further. I also don't like having that conversation, because it tends to make things feel awkward. So I don't kiss them good night. It usually works without having to talk about it.

 

[elsol]

Who dates?

I've been on a grand total of TWO official dates.

Everything else just sort of happened; we both had to work late, a drink afterwards, 'Oh look a bed...'

'Oh look another bed!'

"Wouldn't this be easier if we only had one bed?"

Or you're friends, and then you stumble on to a bed... it shakes and you get off the bed more than friends.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[rikaaim]

If I don't find myself looking forward to seeing him, I don't think he'd get to the fourth date. If he did, he'd be someone I'd like to be friends with, so I'd want to make sure he understood that I'm happy to see him without wanting to take it further. I also don't like having that conversation, because it tends to make things feel awkward. So I don't kiss them good night. It usually works without having to talk about it.

Ahhh...so in some cases it's just a quite understanding. Well, if both people know it's not going anywhere, why not just say it? Why not do like others have said and just say, "Hey, you know what? This just ain't working. Sorry. I just don't think the romance is there. But, we can still fuck anytime ya like. "

Of course that last line is optional and the nana dance would be very hard to expressess in mere words. So, I shall have to make one up:

Scrumtrusculant.


Ahh...good 'ol Will Farrel. Classic stuff.

Honestly, I think in that situation where both know, just get it out there and establish what the relationship can be from that point. Be it friends, or just go your seperate ways never to speak again.

 

[rikaaim]

Another point that I feel is valid to bring up:

When does sex exactly come into the picture? It's very imporant in a relationship, to me at least, but when is the right time? I'm sure sometimes there's such a strong pull that almost instant seems fine, but on other occasions when feelings are still be deciphered, are decisions of keeping the intial dates going impacted by sex, good or bad, or even lack of sex?

I know this is mostly individual, but I still find it interesting.

Especially given that most have agreed that by date four if things are not looking good, it's over. So, is sex before date four? Is that the relationship saver? And have you ever kept a bad relationship going for good sex?

 

[LadyJeanne]

Ahhh...so in some cases it's just a quite understanding. Well, if both people know it's not going anywhere, why not just say it? Why not do like others have said and just say, "Hey, you know what? This just ain't working. Sorry. I just don't think the romance is there. But, we can still fuck anytime ya like. "

Of course that last line is optional and the nana dance would be very hard to expressess in mere words. So, I shall have to make one up:

Scrumtrusculant.


Ahh...good 'ol Will Farrel. Classic stuff.

Honestly, I think in that situation where both know, just get it out there and establish what the relationship can be from that point. Be it friends, or just go your seperate ways never to speak again.

I totally agree with that if we've been fucking all along. I misunderstood you. When you said their interest level was at mold, I didn't realize there was fucking going on. Totally different situation. Yeah, then you need to just get it out in the open if you want to stay friends.

 

[elsol]

Ahh...good 'ol Will Farrel. Classic stuff.

Honestly, I think in that situation where both know, just get it out there and establish what the relationship can be from that point. Be it friends, or just go your seperate ways never to speak again.

a) You both have to know.
b) Neither of you can have rejection issues.
c) Someone has to say it first.
d) You can't be an asshole about it.

And the other person gets to decide afterwards whether you've been an asshole about it or not.

Sincerley,
elsol

 

[rikaaim]

I totally agree with that if we've been fucking all along. I misunderstood you. When you said their interest level was at mold, I didn't realize there was fucking going on. Totally different situation. Yeah, then you need to just get it out in the open if you want to stay friends.

My initial question didn't involve sex. It was the standard bad dates, bad match, bad everything situation. I was just curious when sex came into the picture.

In a good relationship, not one where right away you know you're going to fuck, when is a good time to press for sex? I know again it all comes down to both people knowing and being ready.

In a bad relationship I think you've answered my question. Yeah, the relationship has to end, but then an arrangement can be made as far as the friendship, and the possibility of keeping the good sex going.

 

[rikaaim]

a) You both have to know.
b) Neither of you can have rejection issues.
c) Someone has to say it first.
d) You can't be an asshole about it.

And the other person gets to decide afterwards whether you've been an asshole about it or not.

Sincerley,
elsol

Yeah. That's the way it always seems to be. That's fine though. Honestly, if something isn't going to work out, it's just not going to work out. If I happen to be an asshole about it, eh...sorry, but we both know it's best in the end and we'll both move on. Hell...after five years I probably won't even remember the incident.

 

[elsol]

Yeah. That's the way it always seems to be. That's fine though. Honestly, if something isn't going to work out, it's just not going to work out. If I happen to be an asshole about it, eh...sorry, but we both know it's best in the end and we'll both move on. Hell...after five years I probably won't even remember the incident.

*burp*

You could always lie.

I especially like the 'My ex and I got to talking... there's something still there."

Sometimes a well-crafted like can feel better the truth, because a good lie takes more effort. (Tears, the looks of how bad they feel, etc. vs. the coldness of 'this ain't going nowhere, dude')



Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[rikaaim]

*burp*

You could always lie.

I especially like the 'My ex and I got to talking... there's something still there."

Sometimes a well-crafted like can feel better the truth, because a good lie takes more effort. (Tears, the looks of how bad they feel, etc. vs. the coldness of 'this ain't going nowhere, dude')



Sincerely,
ElSol

Is it really cold to say a known truth though? I guess the reaction depends on the vestment of the other individual as well as the overall maturity of the two adults breaking up. Let's face it...some adults still whine like children when things don't go their way. Not that that's a bad thing per say...but it does happen.

It seems that breaking up is an art of its own.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

In a good relationship, not one where right away you know you're going to fuck, when is a good time to press for sex? I know again it all comes down to both people knowing and being ready.

I've got to think that if you're going on a date just so you can dip the wick, this relationship is doomed, so why not just put on your lunge-&-thrust on the first time out, as soon as you know there's nothing else there?

I mean, I guess I used to do that too. There's a time in a male's life when the only reason he bothers with girls is for sex (for some, it's always like that), and that's when you start planning a date like a military campaign, which is what it is, with objectives, strategies, deceptions, guerilla raids, etc. (I wrote a whole story of a seduction as a military campaign, where the commando-hand landing on the left breast was repelled by determined resistance until a diversionary attack on the earlobe softened up the enemy, &c, &c) Oh, the guy will tell himself that he likes and respects her as a person, and he probably does, but all he really wants is the sex. Given the option, he'd rather hang with his buds.

Hopefully though, we eventually get to a place where we realize that the pussy has a brain attached, and the sharp ones among us redirect out attention to that area. The duller ones never do. Sex comes about not as a matter of scheduling (the old date #/base corollary: 1st date, 1st base, etc.) but as the result on inter-brain negotiation and information transfer.

When we're young, we treat women as though they're some complicated piece of machinery for which we're sure a manual exists somewhere: take her out 4 times=sex, touch her here=orgasm, act this way=she likes you. You see that in all those "how-to" articles that young guys always buy--how to get laid, how to pick up chicks, how to make love. They're all bullshit. No one's a machine. Most of us realize that in time and discover that honesty and communication are the only guidelines.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

Is it really cold to say a known truth though? I guess the reaction depends on the vestment of the other individual as well as the overall maturity of the two adults breaking up. Let's face it...some adults still whine like children when things don't go their way. Not that that's a bad thing per say...but it does happen.

It seems that breaking up is an art of its own.

Firstly, it's never a truly good idea to lie. There are just lies that aren't too horribly bad. "Yes, son, there relly is a Santa Claus." "Honey, Lassie healed up nicely after the car hit him, and we sent him to live ona frm where he can chase ducks and play in the fields all day."

Note that children were involved in both, and the intent was positive and, to a certain degree, intended for their protection. It isn't your job to protect another adult. Yes, there are certain responsibilities you take on when you choose to interact with them, but lieing to them to make things easier isn't really excusable.

To tell the truth, it sounds like you're looking for a set of rules on dating and breaking up (well, the two combined more or less, I guess) and they don't exist. Never have; never will. Shouldn't exist, ever. All rules will ever do is begin the process of finding the technical way around them, and that solves nothing.

An art form? No. No social interaction is an artform. You're making it too complicated. Play it by ear, and trust your heart and your instincts to tell you what to do next and how to read her. If you're wrong, you'll learn something from it. It does no good to think so much. When do you make the move for sex? When it feels right. That's it. And if it doesn't feel right to her, she'll let you know, if in no other way by simply saying no, or not giving it up.

...he'd be someone I'd like to be friends with, so I'd want to make sure he understood that I'm happy to see him without wanting to take it further. I also don't like having that conversation, because it tends to make things feel awkward. So I don't kiss them good night. It usually works without having to talk about it.

I disagree with this on the sole reasoning of the wording, which may have been misleading, or misunderstood on my part. If neither is the case, my beef with it is the word "HAVE." I don't see how it matters what you HAVE to do. There's what you should do, and what doesn't need done. HAVE has nothing to do with it.

Secondly, the process you described is senseless to me. The point should be made, but going out with him, then not kissing is more or less leading him in both directions. Make the call and say, "It's not working out with us dating, but I do enjoy your company. I was hoping we could remain friends, though." There's respect in being forward and honest about it, instead of hinting around and playing games. There's no respect in that at all. I don't deal with people who bear so little respect for me (or for themselves) that they can't be honest.

Maybe that's just me...

Q_C

 

[Rhys]

Easy. Tell them you found somebody else to talk to.

If they don't get the message, then fuck off works well too.

 

[mlady_france]

It isn't your job to protect another adult.

Thank you.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I disagree with this on the sole reasoning of the wording, which may have been misleading, or misunderstood on my part. If neither is the case, my beef with it is the word "HAVE." I don't see how it matters what you HAVE to do. There's what you should do, and what doesn't need done. HAVE has nothing to do with it.

Secondly, the process you described is senseless to me. The point should be made, but going out with him, then not kissing is more or less leading him in both directions. Make the call and say, "It's not working out with us dating, but I do enjoy your company. I was hoping we could remain friends, though." There's respect in being forward and honest about it, instead of hinting around and playing games. There's no respect in that at all. I don't deal with people who bear so little respect for me (or for themselves) that they can't be honest.

Maybe that's just me...

Q_C

You misunderstood my use of 'have'. I meant 'to have a conversation' and not 'having to have a conversation.

As for the rest, here's my view. I meet a guy, we go out a few times. If I'm not interested in him for a romantic relationship, I just don't ever kiss him. I also don't flirt, don't touch him, don't gaze romantically in his eyes, don't invite him to my place, don't send out any of the signals, don't let him pay for the dates. Guys understand that. They're not dumb. If I continue to see him without doing any of those things, he has the option of continuing the friendship without losing face in the 'let's just be friends' conversation.

 

[Quiet_Cool]

You misunderstood my use of 'have'. I meant 'to have a conversation' and not 'having to have a conversation.

As for the rest, here's my view. I meet a guy, we go out a few times. If I'm not interested in him for a romantic relationship, I just don't ever kiss him. I also don't flirt, don't touch him, don't gaze romantically in his eyes, don't invite him to my place, don't send out any of the signals, don't let him pay for the dates. Guys understand that. They're not dumb. If I continue to see him without doing any of those things, he has the option of continuing the friendship without losing face in the 'let's just be friends' conversation.

Okay, then why are you dating him more than once? I understand that you want to deal with him, but not romantically, and that the dates are meant to be for getting-to-know-you purposes, and no, we aren't dumb, but sometimes, the signals you send aren't as obvious as you think. It's easy to understand something when you're aware of it in advance. That's what makes hindsight 20/20. To me, it's not honest. It's more or less misleading.

A simple conversation "This isn't working out in this sense, but in this sense, I think it might..." is direct, can't be mistaken, and more importantly, gets things out in the open while showing the respect of friendship. No one loses face, unless someone acts like an ass about it.

Here's my viewpoint from the opposite side. Four dates or more, and she doesn't flirt with me, doesn't kiss me, doesn't let me pay (which has nothing to do with things, BTW). If it got to thins point, and we'd probably not finish the first date without at least some flirting, then I'd think you were jerking me around. There are no friendships after that.

Just my way of looking at it. Some things can be hinted at. When to kiss, whether or not it's okay to smile, things like that. They can go without saying. "let's be friends," No, that needs some more explanation.

Q_C