How DO the Sadistic wheels turn, as the masochists squirm?

[h_i_s]

There have been many discussions regarding the feelings of plys.

We know that many pyls receive a great deal of satisfaction, in many ways, in serving their PYL (based on whatever *their* definition may regard serving to be). We've heard many different examples of what the service involves. For many pyls, this includes many different levels of sadist/masochist exchanges.

We have disected and explored, and discussed the many different accounts of many different pyls, regarding their feelings, likes and dislikes, & what goes on in their minds while at the hands (or crop, whip, belt, flogger, hairbrush ... err ... even toilet brush .. heh) ... of the sadist PYL.

In my own reading, at this forum board & other BDSM forums at which i participate, i've seen far less discussion regarding the feelings of PLYs.

Very early on in our D/s relationship which did/does include the pleasures of S&m, i had asked my Master to explain to me what goes on in His mind during 'pain play'. i'd asked Him why it is enjoyable for Him, ... and 'What does He get out of it', ... and most importantly ... what He is thinking, and FEELING during these moments while He gives and i receive. The answers i received back then (and during many other conversations He and i have shared since), opened my eyes, and my mind, and led me to a clearer understanding of Him, His needs & desires, ... and also, allowed me a 'hint' of understanding how it 'may be' if i were to step inside His mind and experience the interactions (between a Sadist PYL & a masochist pyl) from a PYL's perspective.

i've had to wonder if other pyls have asked their own Pyls the same questions. i found that in being allowed a glimpse of it all (what goes on in His mind) to be very intriguing, as well as useful in serving/submitting to Him as His pyl.


What are YOU thinking and feeling as YOUR ply is submitting to YOU during pain play?

How do YOUR Sadistic wheels turn, as YOUR masochist squirms?


[DISCLAIMER: i do understand that many, myself included, don't care for labels, and that many stear clear of them, and i use the terms Sadist and masochist in ways that can be interpreted to include the many different LEVELS, both 'soft' and 'extreme' .... and of course, it should be understood that some PLYs are the masochists, while the pyl in their relationship may indeed be the sadist.] Reword/relabel ... as it applies for YOU, aka 'as needed'.

i realized after posting this new thread, perhaps it should have been placed in BDSM TALK rather than here at the BDSM Cafe. i'm certain Catalina Francisco, or Marquis will move it should they decide .. it needs to be.

 

[AAkasha]

There have been many discussions regarding the feelings of plys.

We know that many pyls receive a great deal of satisfaction, in many ways, in serving their PYL (based on whatever *their* definition may regard serving to be). We've heard many different examples of what the service involves. For many pyls, this includes many different levels of sadist/masochist exchanges.

We have disected and explored, and discussed the many different accounts of many different pyls, regarding their feelings, likes and dislikes, & what goes on in their minds while at the hands (or crop, whip, belt, flogger, hairbrush ... err ... even toilet brush .. heh) ... of the sadist PYL.

In my own reading, at this forum board & other BDSM forums at which i participate, i've seen far less discussion regarding the feelings of PLYs.

Very early on in our D/s relationship which did/does include the pleasures of S&m, i had asked my Master to explain to me what goes on in His mind during 'pain play'. i'd asked Him why it is enjoyable for Him, ... and 'What does He get out of it', ... and most importantly ... what He is thinking, and FEELING during these moments while He gives and i receive. The answers i received back then (and during many other conversations He and i have shared since), opened my eyes, and my mind, and led me to a clearer understanding of Him, His needs & desires, ... and also, allowed me a 'hint' of understanding how it 'may be' if i were to step inside His mind and experience the interactions (between a Sadist PYL & a masochist pyl) from a PYL's perspective.

i've had to wonder if other pyls have asked their own Pyls the same questions. i found that in being allowed a glimpse of it all (what goes on in His mind) to be very intriguing, as well as useful in serving/submitting to Him as His pyl.


What are YOU thinking and feeling as YOUR ply is submitting to YOU during pain play?

How do YOUR Sadistic wheels turn, as YOUR masochist squirms?


[DISCLAIMER: i do understand that many, myself included, don't care for labels, and that many stear clear of them, and i use the terms Sadist and masochist in ways that can be interpreted to include the many different LEVELS, both 'soft' and 'extreme' .... and of course, it should be understood that some PLYs are the masochists, while the pyl in their relationship may indeed be the sadist.] Reword/relabel ... as it applies for YOU, aka 'as needed'.

i realized after posting this new thread, perhaps it should have been placed in BDSM TALK rather than here at the BDSM Cafe. i'm certain Catalina Francisco, or Marquis will move it should they decide .. it needs to be.

What a fascinating post, and of the type we don't see often enough on any bdsm discussion forum.

I'm a femdom, and I started experimenting with play as soon as I was old enough to date. I didn't know anything about S&M or "the scene" and there was no Internet yet, so it was all just from imagination and instinct.

Of course, there were also no "subs" -- or those that could identify as one -- so it was me "coercing" vanillas into it. Mind you, guys around that age don't protest to some light bondage, roleplaying, a little pain play from a woman who wants to take control.

The guys would ask lots of questions though. "So, why are you into this stuff?" "Why do you like to do that to me?" and "What do you get out of it?". I often had to think hard, and analyze, and really try to put a finger on it. I would get questioned about specific acts -- for instance, my attraction to breath control (just roleplaying it, not doing it, or -- simple stuff, like making him hold his breath until I said stop) -- and I found that these partners started to use that knowledge to please me, to be a better partner, to engage me, to push my buttons. They'd figure out that if I like x, I might like y, and surprise me with their own innovations.

Essentially, they wanted to know what made me *tick*.

Flash forward ten years to the wonderful world of the BDSM scene, subs that are willing and eager, and the joys of the net. Remarkably, the thing that surprised me most about submissives is that they DIDN'T ask questions. None. Except, maybe, "When can we do it again?". They didn't care why I liked pain play, they just wanted to know if I liked *their* kind of pain play.

I didn't get many "Why are you into this, what does it do for you?" -- I got more "Why AREN'T you into <my fetish>? Can't you try it? Please?"

You ask this question now -- and it's a great one. I actually wrote about this exact same thing on the net in 1997:

http://www.akashaweb.com/frustr.htm

I'm looking forward to what others have to say.

Akasha

 

[rosco rathbone]

There's all kinds of stuff, from pleasure in playful cat and mouse experimentation to the farthest gooey, co-dependent romantic reaches of wanting to break someone apart in order to put them together again. Also cathartic release of sexual rage.

 

[h_i_s]

Essentially, they wanted to know what made me *tick*.

Very early on in our D/s relationship, this was ONE of the most important, and intriguing details that i wanted to know, and truely understand about my Master.

I actually wrote about this exact same thing on the net in 1997:

http://www.akashaweb.com/frustr.htm

i enjoyed reading your take on this topic. i especially appreciate where you say, "This is about "love what creates the domme, not just what the domme does.", and in replacing the word domme with Master, thought to myself .... "EXACTLY!! That's where i am in my mind, my heart .. with all of it!!".

Thank you for sharing a peek into your thoughts, and providing an understanding of the mystical, amazing, terrifying, alluring & magical "whatever it is" that makes YOU tick, Akasha. i, for one ... DO appreciate knowing.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Moved it for you.

I know I asked each and every Dominant I had any significant amount of time to communicate with. For the most part they were all in the sadistic line as that was something which I was attractred to, so the answers related to both their need to dominate a consenting partner and their love of and euphoria from delivering pain that was appreciated and enjoyed for its beauty and depth. There is definately a connection which goes beyond simply hurting another.

Catalina

 

[h_i_s]

There's all kinds of stuff, from pleasure in playful cat and mouse experimentation to the farthest gooey, co-dependent romantic reaches of wanting to break someone apart in order to put them together again. Also cathartic release of sexual rage.

Ok, i see. i would THINK that such things would be pleasurable. i know that as a submissive, when involved in such playful antics, and experimentations, or co-dependancies, as well as in being put together again .... and not to leave out my own purges of sexual overloads ... there are many feelings experienced. There are also many reasons WHY *i* seek ALL of that. BUT ... *HOW* does it feel for You? WHY do You seek it all? What goes through YOU mind while YOUR pyl squirms, pleads, begs for You to cease or pause in your sadistic 'whatevers' or begs You to never stop? As you PLAN your plans, or see those plans take shape, and the impulsive acts of sadism take form.... as they are administered to that pyl .... what are the many feelings & thoughts which YOU may experience??

i DO appreciate your reply, rosco. It just didn't provide me with as clear of an understanding as i hope to reach. But then again, maybe this is not possible?? Hmm ..

 

[h_i_s]

Moved it for you.
There is definately a connection which goes beyond simply hurting another.

Catalina

Yes! i agree ... there IS.

In prodding my Master's mind, THAT is also exactly what i have sought to understand more clearly. Thank you.

And, thanks for moving the thread Catalina.

 

[tealsphynx]

I enjoy the sounds of the toys I use and the sounds he makes in response to the play. I'm sure there's also a pheremone response involved. Unfortunately we live in a quadplex on base with paper thin walls (we broke one accidentally and are trying to figure out how to fix it without taking apart the whole wall, and the dry wall IS paper thin!) so I don't get to listen to them much, though the gag we just got helps mute it enough that when he wears it I can still hear him. I view BDSM more from a sensual POV than a sexual one. My arousal is from the sensations: The sounds, the sights, the smells of his sweat, the feeling of the toys in my hands as they swing, smack, snap, clip and such, their way across his skin. After play I like to see the marks I've left on him, a reminder of a particularly good session. I also like to make him say the things that he has a hard time admitting. Like "I'm a little pain slut" (which is currently written on his left foot and I ask him frequently what it says followed by a "Well, are you?" Until he answers correctly) I've never been to interested in training my sub to behave a certain way, I prefer him to be free willed with an sharp tongue. It gets him in trouble and worried about punishment (though my bark is worse than my bite, unless I do actually bite then its all I can do not to take a chunk of flesh, I like the feel of skin in my teeth)

 

[h_i_s]

Yes, tealsphynx. THAT expression of your feelings and thoughts, and experience as the PYL ... is a great example of what i was hoping others might share. i know from speaking with other pyls, ... many don't know the half of what the PYL experiences on THEIR end of the exchange. Submissives [most] seem to be easier to read. Many (and no, i'm not about to assume the same is true for ALL .. but ..) times as pyls we can't see, touch, and feel the reactions, and sensations that a PYL experiences. Those responses (or lack of), unfortunately, are not always quite so apparent during a session between PYL/pyl. Wonderful, and informative. Thank you.

 

[tealsphynx]

In my most recent experiences I have taken him to subspace. It changes the whole atmosphere in the room, I can almost always tell when he's "Transitioned" as I call it into his space and tell how deeply. I try really hard not to kill the mood as it's happening because it is a completely amazing feeling. His noises change as well as his movements. If I had a video camera I would love to film it and let him see what happens (as well as for me, get an outside, not in the heat of the moment look at our play) Escpecially since I can't find any D/s style vids that I like, especially the femdom stuff. I hate it. For some reason the filmers think that being a femdom automatically means being a bitch. I've found it is more of a loving and almost nurturing feeling when I'm at play.

 

[Netzach]

I could go on and on describing the ways I love painplay, or I could point out that, just like it is for submissives, it simply makes me feel *good.* Like I am perfectly myself, doing what I ought to be doing. An all's right with the world kind of feeling, when I have my hairbrush in my hand and an ass on my lap.

 

[TaintedB]

This thread was making me feel personally uncomfortable, kind of embarassed, and I couldn't figure out why. Nothing wrong with any of it, questions or answers, just my response, which seemed completely inappropriate, lol. Then someone said something that helped me figure it out:

Moved it for you.

I know I asked each and every Dominant I had any significant amount of time to communicate with.

Same here. I got a very wide variety of answers because I talked to lots of different sorts of people, many of them very strange. Then the answers started to repeat, athough they remained scattered across a wide spectrum. I will still ask this sort of question, but not nearly as often as I used to, as, weirdly enough, I've started to feel pretty troll-ish doing so. Like one of those guys who comes into a forum or a chatroom asking women to describe their sexual experiences for the express purpose of getting off on them. You know the type, we get them in this forum every once in awhile. It's a flirtatious sort of question and also an important one to ask of a lot of people if you do not already know the answers, and nobody that I've ever asked it to has ever even hinted to me that I am being trollish, but I can't escape my own notice. I will still ask this of specific people if I cannot figure them out on my own, but those individuals are few and far between these days.

On the other hand , I don't feel trollish when I ask questions about submissive feelings or repsonses. Maybe that is because, while I can relate to the responses, they don't have that "opposite attracts" power to them that makes me feel like a mental peeping tom? Weird, huh, that you could ask a question so many times that you start to question your own motives for asking it? Sometimes I think my conscience is over-active. :/

 

[marieR19]

In my most recent experiences I have taken him to subspace. It changes the whole atmosphere in the room, I can almost always tell when he's "Transitioned" as I call it into his space and tell how deeply.

I claim my newness to this lifestyle as my excuse for asking this: What the heck is "subspace"? I've heard it mentioned a lot around here, and I kinda have some idea, but anyone want to explain it for me? Please?

Marie

 

[TaintedB]

I claim my newness to this lifestyle as my excuse for asking this: What the heck is "subspace"? I've heard it mentioned a lot around here, and I kinda have some idea, but anyone want to explain it for me? Please?

Marie

It's one of those words that mean different things for different people, so is hard to define, because it's used to refer to a subjective experience (or, at least five different subjective experiences, last time I counted! ) The best you can do is get a lot of different answers, combine them together, and then get a sort of generic idea of what people are talking about.

The most common definition that I've head is that when you hit someone who is masochistic, the effect of the pain is to release "feel good" chemicals in the brain (endorphins?). These can often cause the person experiecing them to get spaced out, which is what I think of when I hear the word "subspace," but typically the "space" part of the word just refers to being in a different place, mentally, than one normally is. Your perception of things going on around and the outside world narrows and you tend to get lost in your own personal introspective pleasures, which are very intense. A lot of things get blamed on "subspace:" an inability to communicate at crucial times, inatriculateness in general, an inability to think, etc. It's not that powerful: if a sudden horrible pain, like a smashed toe, will bring you out of the intense ecstasy of an orgasm, you can certainly learn to function in subspace. It just takes training that's not always the most fun.

My dominant didn't mind my getting in that condition, but he insisted I not "wallow" in it. He didn't like a spaced-out, uncommunicative partner. He liked me engaged with him and with the action going on, not flying off to venus or in my own little world (which is where you can go--not venus! your own little world!--if subspace isn't controlled), and he had lots of ways to keep me right where he wanted me: completely engaged with him and with what was happening to me. This lessened the effect of the subspace experience, probably, but I didn't mind because I was doing what he wanted me to do, which, for me, was a much more satisfying emotional condition than one more self-indulgent. Sometimes he'd let me drift off a little near the end, when he was doing something that felt particularly good, and that was fun. I made up the most amazing stories in my head during those times. But then, when I was feeling at my very best and most spaced-out and floating, he'd jerk me right back into the world and make me orally service him--which required a lot of attention and concetration to satisfy him. How absolutely unfair of him! (I loved it.)

 

[Bondagebunni]

I've always wondered this myself...and no one has ever been able to give me an answer that satisfied me because they always described the reactions of the other person rather than what they were feeling...and i don't know how to describe the exact answer I want. I've started to understand it, however, since I've become less submissive and more switch-like recently...which is very scary for me. When I figure it out, I'm gonna write a fucking novel about it in hopes of enlightening myself >.<

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Well ...

• This gets the motor running,
• This gets me out of first gear,
• This beats double clutching up through the gearbox,
• This gets me through the tight twists and turns, and
• This drives me home past the finish line.

Next question?