How do I tell a friend his books sucks?

[Lovepotion69]

This guys is very close to one of my close friends. He has written two fantasy books and had them self-published. He's been trying to get bookstores and libraries to buy them off him, but not much luck.

Now he wants me to ask for the books in libraries, and when they realise they don't have the books, he hopes to create a demand for them!

Now, I've read some of his previous work. The grammar is fine, so hopefully it should be ok in the books too. The contents of the books I can't comment.

My dilemma is that I would NEVER recommend his book to someone. Not because of grammar or content. Because the guy hasn't edited it properly. There are no clear paragraphs! I'd like to actually KNOW where a paragraph starts and ends. Right now it's all just text text text. Huge chunks of them.

I suggested he re-edit the books and perhaps tried to get them published with some smaller publishing house. His reply was "why? they're already edited and published!"

How do I tell him, somewhat nicely, that his books make me throw them in the trash before I even read them?

/LP

 

[noso]

I always think that the truth hurts...but definatly not as much as lies.

I would just straight out tell him thats why you think his books arent getting any attention. Suggest that on more editing it would be more appealing to a wider audience.

He cant be upset forever and I'm sure he expects to have negative criticizm from some people eventually.

 

[Weird Harold]

My dilemma is that I would NEVER recommend his book to someone. Not because of grammar or content. Because the guy hasn't edited it properly. There are no clear paragraphs! I'd like to actually KNOW where a paragraph starts and ends. Right now it's all just text text text. Huge chunks of them.

...
How do I tell him, somewhat nicely, that his books make me throw them in the trash before I even read them?

/LP

I don't think there is a way to tell this friend anything that he'll accept. You've already told him that you think they need to be re-edited and he didn't accept that there could be a problem with them.

You could try telling him that the formatting is what makes them un-readable, or take a "blue pencil" to the first couple of pages to show him where the paragraph breaks should go. (There's nothing like seeing your text covered with editor's marks and comments to instill a reality check in an author.)

 

[sweetnpetite]

I would just point out, exactly what the error is. "Look, you need to have paragraph breaks or no one is going to read this- including me." This guy seems clueless. How can you write a book without knowing about paragraphs? Doesn't he *read*?

If that doesnt seem to work- the guy is a lost cause. Just let him live in this fantasy world were he is an undiscovered and unappreciated genious.

Also, most librairies and book stores *won't* carry self-published or vanity press books. If he wants to unload his stock, the only thing I can think of is selling them garage sale style- set up a 'book signing' in his yard. He could also try selling them by direct mail (by classified ad in sci-fi magazines or something), although he'll have to deal with postage and so forth. Maybe someone will buy the book if they haven't already seen that their are no paragraphs. (I don't know if that's really ethical, but it's probably his only hope.)

 

[Linbido]

I'd recommend brutal honesty in this case. You actually doesn't say that his creative writitng sucks. That's the kind of thing that I think would sting. Is it only the bad formatting that makes them impossible to read, then just spit it out.

What you say is that it is his...well, his design skills when it comes to make his story readable and pleasing to the eye that is not really doing a home run. If you want to, I can tell him. I do that every day, it's part of my job. Every copywriter, author and scriptwriter thinks they can administer good layout for their texts. I kindly let them know that they can't. And then I do it for them.

 

[shereads]

"Your book sucks...But that shirt looks great on you."

 

[shereads]

Your book su - Hey, have you lost weight, or have you just been working out a lot?

 

[Dirty Slut]

Houston, we have a problem...

The truth is, your friend's friend isn't going to listen to anything negative that you have to say about his book if he didn't take your last statement to heart.

People who can't take critique tip you off to that right off the bat, and he did. You can ask him who he had edit it for him, but I'm sure he'll say it's self-edited as well.

You can ask him who he gave it to to read before he published it, but I'd guess that he didn't, or that they were too frightened to tell him the truth, or he refused to accept that truth. Which leaves you only one possible way out. Agree to ask for the book in your local library. Whether or not you do is up to you, but he'll be out of your hair until the next brillant plan of his surfaces when this one doesn't pan out.

Which is what I'd bet you have already done. ;-) I had the very same problem with a friend of mine when they heard that I was a published author. They even gave me a signed copy of their book to read, and believe me it was horrible. Like reading a monosylabic how to text about nothing at all. And the book was in hardback to boot. Which means that it cost him thousands of dollars to selfpublish.

DS

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Perhaps you could convince him to give an impromptu reading of one of his works. Assuming he hasn't memorized it word for word if you can force him to try and read it out loud the lack of breaks should become self evident to him within the span of a few breaths?

-Colly

 

[shereads]

Your book sucks. But that's okay, Tolkein wrote about 17 versions of The Silmarilion before he finally found one worth publishing. His son makes a living publishing the rejects.

 

[Icingsugar]

Hey, why don't you get other people to say it instead?

Like a plethora of posters above me have said, it's not the content but the paragraph formatting that is the real problem, right? Then hand a copy to any random reader. He or she will tell you "This looks really weird, why are there no paragraphs? I can't read this."

Then quote. And remember to point out that nobody is dissing his storytelling talent. As a writer, you should know that that would feel much worse to hear.

(Unless they do. Then you have another issue on your hands.)

 

[Guest]

LP, it sounds like this guy's trying to take advantage of you. You say he's a friend of a friend? I would never ask someone to do what he's asked of you, not even a close friend. He self-publishes then tries to get a friend's friend to pimp his book? And he already rejects a basic suggestion?

Dump him, and DO NOT feel bad about it. Seriously,

Perdita

 

[shereads]

Your book is brilliant. Unfortunately, society isn't ready for the purity of your vision. Best to keep this to yourself, unless you're willing to see your friends ostracized for defending your art...That woman over there, the one who looks like Pam Anderson - Was she staring at you just now?

 

[Quasimodem]

I recommend doing what my first editor did to the first copy I wrote for money, in a professional situation.

First he read it, then he folded it, then folded it again. Finally, he crumpled it up and flung it at the wall on the opposite side of the office.

I definitely got his point. In the following years, I always took his slightest suggestion to heart. As a result, his critiques never needed to be so harsh, again.

You do him no favour by not telling him – whatever it takes to get through – that his manuscript needs work.

If a harsh critique loses you this friendship, you have lost nothing.

 

[snooper]

Ask him why he had to self-publish.

Then ask him why the publishers rejected his book.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

69, men are masochists. They LOVE to get insulted. Tell him plain out his book sucked, and WHY it sucked. Tell him that no-one will want to read it unless he fixes what's wrong with it.

Use a cold, sharp voice, and look at him like he's a disgusting maggot while you talk to him.

Finish off by ordering him to go down on you.

Then go buy a pair of black leather boots and a whip and...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'm really beginning to think that my experiences in criticism are a lot different from most other people's here on Literotica. I have absolutely no problem with telling anyone my honest opinion oif their writing, and the closer I am to that person, the more critical I can be.

I've almost always had a group of friends with whom I talked about writing and with whom I'd sit around ripping the shit out of each other's work. I thought that's what writers do. We discussed writing like most men talk sports, and with about the same level of personal involvement or objectivity."Hey, your poem stunk," or "this story doesn't go anywhere" isn't much different than talking about the miserable Bears or a bad five-minte drill as far as I can see.

I've learned to throttle back here, that people don't like to hear stuff like that, though it's hard for me to understand why. I mean, it's not like I'm talking about your wife or girl friend. Writing is something you do, and one of the signs of a pro is that he can take that kind of criticism. It's the dabblers and dillitentes who get all bent out of shape and take it as some sort of attack on their worth as a person. He can accept it or reject it, but it's not like you're making fun of the size of his dick or something.

Or is it?

---dr.M.

 

[raphy]

I think, Mab, it's because people *do* put so much of themselves into writing, into being creative. It's also a lot harder to be objective when it comes to art, because everyone's a critic and everyone has an opinion.

Now, you can talk about a football game and say "Damn, those Bronco's sucked last night" (because they did - I watched it last night and Indiana pissed all over them ) and that's an objective statement. The guy throws the ball. The reciever misses the catch, and you can point your finger at that and say 'That reciever sucks. He can't catch worth shit'

But, what makes a Van Gogh better than the picture your 7-year old daughter brings home from school? Realism? Mastery of color? Of form? Of shape?

Why do people argue over whether Aerosmith is a better band than The Backstreet Boys? Or that Hemmingway could write circles around Twain?

Now if you're talking about the mechanics of writing, like LP seems to be here, that's different. If you ain't got your sentence structure right, that's very easy to point out and should cause zero offence. It's cold, logical, and there's nothing of the author in it, and so there's nothing to get offended when you point out that it's wrong.

But as for the story itself.. You critique that, and it's personal.

"I poured my heart into this story and you say it sucks? I'm baring my soul here, buddy, and you throw it back in my face? Well, thanks but no thanks."

The problem is, everyone's looking for acceptance. Reassurance that what they're doing is worth something, because they're measuring their worth by other people's reactions to their achievements (which is a whole other can o' psychological worms and I won't go into it here)

"I'm a great writer!!"
"No, you're a shitty writer. Don't give up your day job."

Ah, the fragile ego of man.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

How about saying "I don't know if you're a shitty writer, period, but I do know that this story sucks!"

 

[shereads]

Your book speaks most eloquently in its silences.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Hey folks, reality Check!

This guy has spent a great deal of money on this book made up of one long paragraph. He's not going to like being told that he has to rewrite the whole damn thing, burn the copies that he's already invested in, and buy a whole new set for thousands more. Because that's exactly what he would have to do, and even then it might not sell. That's what self publishing is all about, the money the printer's get for printing out a book. And if he's purchase hundreds of these books, he is going to be pissed when he hears that they are just so much stiff toilet paper. Eventually he will figure it out, but it will be a long drawnout painful experiance no matter what route he takes to get there. Again, I say let it ride. There is nothing anyone can do to help him get over this unless he is open to suggestions in the first place, and he wasn't.

DS

 

[OldnotDead]

. . .talking about the miserable Bears . . .

---dr.M.

"Miserable?!" You can call them 'mislead'. You can call them 'poorly coached'. You can even call them (God Forbid!) 'Losers'! But do NOT EVER call them "Miserable"! That title is reserved for the Red Sox.

Now WHAT was the question? He got me all discombobulated.

Oh, yeah. Tell him the book needs to be edited by someone that knows how to edit prose for publication. It would appear that this fool thinks you can manipulate a book because of what he reads about the workings of 'best seller' lists. He obviously got rejected and had to self publish.

Alternate suggestion: Refer him to Sveskaflicka to design a website for him to sell his book. He wants to self publish, let him self distribute. If he's going to burn money, send some of it to friendly hands!

 

[Lovepotion69]

Hi people!
Thanks for all your input. Certainly got me some good ideas how to approach this (if I can be bothered at all).

I'm not really a friend of his. More of a "Hi, I know your name from my friend and nice to meet you at her wedding" type of friend. Then I kinda took pity on him and let him cry his heart out by email when his fiance dumped him after 7 years.

I'm going to discuss the matter with my friend tomorrow, I wrote to her about it. She knows him the best, perhaps he's not as fragile/crazy/over emotional/slightly mentally unstable person I read into him...

I've already told him in an email that perhaps he should re-edit the books, perhaps he should write more stuff and send off to sci-fi/fantasy magazines and publishing houses. Smaller publishing houses, not the major ones. His reply was "I'm trying to get the magazines and stores to take notice of me, but nothing. And forget about the publishing houses."

Well, my personal opinion of him is that he seems to be a nice guy with a kind heart, but he also gives the impression of a bit of possible "psycho boyfriend" material, as a friend puts it...
Gotta know how to lay it to him gently if I can be bothered to at all.

And to know he'd like to be a journalist... Ok, I'm not keen on criticism to my articles either, but at least I listen and learn!

/LP

 

[Svenskaflicka]

This sounds familiar... He's not from Jämtland, by any chance, now is he?

 

[Dirty Slut]

I'm going to discuss the matter with my friend tomorrow, I wrote to her about it. She knows him the best, perhaps he's not as fragile/crazy/over emotional/slightly mentally unstable person I read into him...

Trust your instincts dear. Too many women haven't and have paid the price.

DS