How did we do it in the teens and forties?

[jaF0]

Stepping back in time ....

We moved millions of troops and support people across the world in more than one direction. We built planes, ships, armor and all of the support equipment by the tens of thousands. We fed them all and provided what medical care was possible. Yes there were protests and strikes here, but for the most part the people came together thorough drafts and rations and blackouts. The whole country was in war production mode.

How long does it take us to build a single plane now? How many people would put up with food or gas rationing? How many companies would shut down normal production line and convert to armament? How many court cases would there be to oppose virtually every step?

 

[Sean Renaud]

If there was a genuine threat I think a lot of people would be willing to put up with rationing. Though I'm not sure how much of that would really be necessary. The world has changed a lot since the 40s. A war that lasted long enough to cause genuine shortages might just have more local production of things show up just to keep up with local demand. Which could at least for a while end up being a permanent change in our society.

 

[jaF0]

We no longer have the steel mills and heavy industrial manufacturing capabilities. Everything is built overseas ... and in some cases, by countries that may not be our allies ... like India.

'They' said, there would never be another mass ground war, everything would be pushbutton and keyboard.

But look at the 00s and now.

Crap, how low does it take to build an Abrams? How many Shermans and Pattons were being pushed off the lines and onto ships every month?

 

[Chernosoth]

The US had huge reserves of fossil fuels, iron ore, and everything it needed to be a rising power. Now it's a falling power. Consumption grew far beyond the nation's own resources. Now it is losing the last of its power to extract and extort resources from other nations. Suburban sprawl, the internet, and all sorts of insanely excessive consumption now use the spare everything that could be used for infrastructure or anything big we might want to do, but won't.

 

[a93dipqx]

The US had huge reserves of fossil fuels, iron ore, and everything it needed to be a rising power. Now it's a falling power. Consumption grew far beyond the nation's own resources. Now it is losing the last of its power to extract and extort resources from other nations. Suburban sprawl, the internet, and all sorts of insanely excessive consumption now use the spare everything that could be used for infrastructure or anything big we might want to do, but won't.

Not sure the evidence supports your characterizations. In December, the United States produced more oil "than any country ever has." There are steel mills in Colorado, California, Oregon, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Ohio, just to name a few.

Our lack of semiconductor manufacturing is the biggest threat to our national security, but American ignorance of key defense components is not particularly unusual. In the early twentieth century, the U.S. failed to secure a supply of rubber that created significant challenges in producing war materials during the 1914-1918 conflict and the 1939-1945 war.

Unlike the two world wars which permitted nations time to mobilize and build-up capacity, massive war would likely be over before any capabilities could be exploited and expanded.


--December 31, 2023 "U.S. Oil Production Has Hit A Record Under Biden, But He Seldom Mentions It."

 

[MajorRewrite]

We no longer have the steel mills and heavy industrial manufacturing capabilities. Everything is built overseas ... and in some cases, by countries that may not be our allies ... like India.

I wish people would stop talking about economics on this forum, because the misinformation is incredible.

There are 623,000 manufacturing companies in the US.

$2.5 trillion in output.

12.7 million US workers in manufacturing.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Crap, how low does it take to build an Abrams? How many Shermans and Pattons were being pushed off the lines and onto ships every month?

By the way, the US has by far more armaments than any other nation. By orders of magnitude in many categories. We sell arms to lots of other countries as well.

All of it is built in the US.

 

[Chernosoth]

Not sure the evidence supports your characterizations. In December, the United States produced more oil "than any country ever has." There are steel mills in Colorado, California, Oregon, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Ohio, just to name a few.

Our lack of semiconductor manufacturing is the biggest threat to our national security, but American ignorance of key defense components is not particularly unusual. In the early twentieth century, the U.S. failed to secure a supply of rubber that created significant challenges in producing war materials during the 1914-1918 conflict and the 1939-1945 war.

Unlike the two world wars which permitted nations time to mobilize and build-up capacity, massive war would likely be over before any capabilities could be exploited and expanded.


--December 31, 2023 "U.S. Oil Production Has Hit A Record Under Biden, But He Seldom Mentions It."

That is the usual spin from corporations that profit from reckless spending, to people who don't want to face a future of energy conservation by necessity. You omitted the next layer, the energy spent to get energy. All the cheap and easy oil has been extracted and used decades ago. What's left is more expensive, in money and oil burned to get it. The fracked oil was never profitable at all. The USA's consumption is many times more than net domestic production. We can't continue as we are with what we have, and the global market is getting much tighter with more developing nations wanting more energy.

 

[Chernosoth]

By the way, the US has by far more armaments than any other nation. By orders of magnitude in many categories. We sell arms to lots of other countries as well.

All of it is built in the US.

Turkiye currently makes the world's best drones. Drones are kicking all kinds of ass in wars now, especially against bigger military forces.

 

[a93dipqx]

That is the usual spin from corporations that profit from reckless spending, to people who don't want to face a future of energy conservation by necessity. You omitted the next layer, the energy spent to get energy. All the cheap and easy oil has been extracted and used decades ago. What's left is more expensive, in money and oil burned to get it. The fracked oil was never profitable at all. The USA's consumption is many times more than net domestic production. We can't continue as we are with what we have, and the global market is getting much tighter with more developing nations wanting more energy.

It appears you constructed a world that to reinforce your value system rather than letting the world as it is, inform you. Evangelicals use this same approach to claim Democrats are coming to close down their churches and gun rights groups keep their supporters fearful that anyone advocating for rational restrictions on access to firearms "is coming to take your guns."

If you want to participate in a dialog based upon facts and the conclusions resulting from an examination of those facts, I will be happy to participate.

 

[a93dipqx]

Turkiye currently makes the world's best drones. Drones are kicking all kinds of ass in wars now, especially against bigger military forces.

Source citation for your claim Turkey makes the world's best drones.

 

[dmallord]

It appears you constructed a world that to reinforce your value system rather than letting the world as it is, inform you. Evangelicals use this same approach to claim Democrats are coming to close down their churches and gun rights groups keep their supporters fearful that anyone advocating for rational restrictions on access to firearms "is coming to take your guns."

If you want to participate in a dialog based upon facts and the conclusions resulting from an examination of those facts, I will be happy to participate.

Wade on in - the waters get turbulent here. Facts are not necessary for a good number of us. We feed on fury and conjure up stuff based on, as Donald T would say, 'just by imagining it.'

Others, bless their hearts, attempt rational thought but find it difficult and frustrating to get a word in between the rants.

Welcome.

 

[Chernosoth]

Source citation for your claim Turkey makes the world's best drones.

Peter Zeihan said it in some video, I forget which one. But best is only an opinion. Buying many cheaper drones may be the best option, depending on the mission. Australia's cardboard and rubber band drones could be the most bang for the buck.