How can a parent send their child to die?

[bored1]

What is the mindset of these people? How could any parent allow their children to be used in this manner? These people are sick, there is no excuse, Odd how the brave men who run the show arent blowing themselves up. Old Arafat should wrap himself up and do the deed himself.

 

[Mensa]

Desperate measures are born of desperation. If you think you are doomed and have nothing to live for, then all measures of revenge are considered. Remove hope and you remove the will to live.

 

[Cheyenne]

Or, human life means nothing to them. Even their own.

 

[Mensa]

Or, human life means nothing to them. Even their own.

Palestinians are human, too. They want nothing more than to live in peace, raise their families, and die in bed surrounded by loved ones. Demonizing them is wrong.

 

[Cheyenne]

Demonizing them is wrong.

The suicide bombers and their parents did that to themselves. Is it wrong? Of course.

 

[riff]

Or, human life means nothing to them. Even their own.

The value of the individual life is not so high in some societies. I watched The Last Emperor a while back.

Classic Modern Predicament: The Individual vrs. The Collective

bored1: You are a product of Western culture. You value (as I do) the sanctity of the individual life. That's why you are outraged. And I am outraged too. I hate it when people die.

 

[Mensa]

If you knew the Palestinians, you would be amazed at their actions. This act of madness just shows how desperate they believe their situation to be. Normally, they would never dream of doing such a thing. They must now truly believe they are a doomed people.

 

[riff]

Palestinians are human, too. They want nothing more than to live in peace, raise their families, and die in bed surrounded by loved ones. Demonizing them is wrong.

Thank you. I TOTALLY AGREE. When I went to Moscow and celebrated my friendship with Russians, I met former members of the "Evil Empire."

What beautiful, wonderful people. Judging from conversations, they were scared shitless of us and really thought we wanted to KILL them. I guess our nuclear arsenal made a bold statement.

 

[hemis]

What is the mindset of these people? How could any parent allow their children to be used in this manner? These people are sick, there is no excuse, Odd how the brave men who run the show arent blowing themselves up. Old Arafat should wrap himself up and do the deed himself.

these people have been fighting over land and religion for thousands of years....they are taught from birth that their religious quest is to end isreals occupation.....therefore, they believe they go to god when they marter themselves,.....this is driven into their heads like we learn math or our ABC's

it's sad

 

[hemis]

PROBLEM

the root of the problem stems from each religion labeling the other ''the devil"...once you lable somthing the devil how can you ever compromise with it.......they simply believe they must destroy the devil.......

 

[ksmybuttons]

Is it better to want someone else's child to die?

If you believe that war has a purpose and retaliation and revenge are acceptable then why should sending anyone to die be objectionable?

There is a difference between self protection and retaliation.

 

[Mensa]

In the final analysis the Jew feels that despite world claims to the contrary, he is alone. When push comes to shove he will be left to defend himself. This is lesson from the holocaust. This is why Israelis will fight to the last man. They truly believe their enemies are out to destroy them utterly. History hasn't proved them wrong.

The Palestinian believes that Israel is out to do the same to them. They look at the people in charge of Israel, remember Sabra and Shatila, and tremble.

For those who don't remember Sabra and Shatila, I include this just to help explain why the Palestinians are untrustful.

(Israeli) Leaders Found Indirectly Responsible for Massacres in Lebanon
By Donald Neff
JANUARY/FEBRUARY 1998, pages 91-93 (Middle East History: It Happened in February )

It was 15 years ago, on Feb. 7, 1983, that the Israeli Commission of Inquiry, better known as the Kahan Commission, issued its report on the 1982 massacres at the Palestinian refugee camps at Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon. It found eight Israeli political and military leaders guilty of "indirect responsibility" for the slaughter by Lebanese Phalange militiamen of as many as 2,000 Palestinian refugees in the two camps during Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982.
Those named by the commission: Prime Minister Menachem Begin, Foreign Minister Yitzhak Shamir, Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Rafael Eitan, Director of Military Intelligence Major General Yehoshua Saguy, Major General Amin Drori, Brigadier General Amos Yaron, and the unidentified head of Mossad, Israel's CIA.1
Despite the grave nature of the findings, most of those found in the wrong continued to have successful careers. Begin remained as prime minister until he voluntarily resigned. He was replaced later in 1983 by Shamir, who remained in power for the next nine years. Sharon lost his ministry but reappeared as the minister of infrastructure under Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. Eitan founded his own political party, Tsomet, which was openly committed to ridding the area of Palestinians, then became minister of agriculture and environment in Netanyahu's government. Yaron went on to become commander of the army's manpower branch and was promoted to major general; in 1986 he was appointed military attaché to the United States.2
New York Times correspondent Thomas Friedman, who was at the massacre scene, later commented: "An investigation which results in such 'punishments' is not an investigation that can be taken seriously. The Israelis knew just what they were doing when they let the Phalangists into those camps."3
What the Israelis were doing at Sabra and Shatila was indeed clear. They allowed a massacre of Palestinian refugees by Christian Phalange militiamen to occur while the area was in Israel's total control and with a U.S. commitment that civilians would be protected. The basic conclusion of the Kahan Report, eyewitnesses and the international community was that Israel deliberately allowed the slaughter to continue for more than a day before finally ending it.4
The slaughter came within the context of Israel's invasion of Lebanon on June 6, 1982. Its aim was to drive out guerrillas of the Palestine Liberation Organization from Israel's northern neighbor. Prime Minister Begin assured the world that Israeli troops would slash no more than 40 kilometers into southern Lebanon to disperse the guerrillas away from Israel's frontier. Within one week, however, the Israeli invasion forces had linked up with their Phalange allies and were besieging West Beirut, the center of the PLO in Lebanon. On July 3, Israel snapped shut its blockade of West Beirut, stopping all traffic into the area. The next day, it began cutting off water, power, food, gasoline and other essentials to the area in an effort to starve Palestinian guerrillas into submission.
Actress Jane Fonda accompanied Israeli troops to Beirut, witnessed the indiscriminate shelling of the western part of the city and later expressed her support for Israel, as did many of Israel's American supporters.5
Despite its severity, Israel's siege failed to subdue the Muslims of West Beirut. On July 22, Israel began daily air attacks with planes given to it by the United States, often accompanied by artillery and naval fire. The attacks grew in ferocity as the siege lengthened. On Aug. 1, the heaviest bombing of the invasion up to that time took place by land, sea and air for 14 hours.6 The Israeli air force alone launched 127 sorties, dropping an estimated 260 tons of bombs. Some 200 persons were killed and twice that many wounded in the attack.7
Worse was in store for the people of West Beirut. On Aug. 12, Defense Minister Sharon ordered the heaviest air and artillery attacks of the war. A massive Israeli artillery attack began at dawn and was accompanied for 11 straight hours by a saturation air bombardment in what became known as "Black Thursday."8 As many as 500 persons were killed.9 President Reagan, despite his pro-Israeli sympathies, was so outraged by the slaughter with U.S. weapons that he personally telephoned Begin twice that day, charging that Israel was causing "needless destruction and bloodshed."10
International outrage against Israel was such that on Aug. 19 the Jewish state finally agreed to a U.S.-proposed cease-fire. It called for Israel to stay out of West Beirut, where the families of the PLO fighters lived in a series of squalid refugee camps in the southern suburbs, and for the withdrawal from Lebanon of thousands of PLO guerrillas. It also offered U.S. guarantees for the safety of the Palestinians, both the guerrillas withdrawing and their families remaining.11
To assure their safety, an international force of troops from the United States, France and Italy arrived in Lebanon. On Aug. 30 PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat sailed away, the last of the Palestinian fighters to leave.12 The U.S. Marine force followed on Sept. 10, 16 days after they had arrived.13
The Marines were barely gone when President-elect Bashir Gemayel, the Maronite Phalangist partner of the Israelis, and 24 others were killed by a powerful bomb in Beirut on Sept. 14.14 The assassination caused Lebanon to explode with communal hatreds.
Israel reacted quickly. The next morning, it broke the cease-fire and massively invaded West Beirut. By Sept. 16, Israeli troops controlled all of West Beirut, including the sprawling Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in the southern suburbs and all of Beirut's main roads, junctions and strategic heights. Their control was complete and they imposed a total curfew on the area.15 An official Israeli spokesman declared: "The Israeli Defense Force is in control of all key points in Beirut. Refugee camps harboring terrorists' concentrations remain encircled and closed."16
By remaining in the area-in defiance of a call by Washington to honor the cease-fire agreement-Israel became an occupying power and as such was responsible for the security of the civilian inhabitants under the articles of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.17 Israel had signed the convention in 1951.
Israel was well aware of the passions sweeping the Phalangist militia. U.S. Special envoy Morris Draper met Chief of Staff Eitan on Sept. 16 and suggested that the Lebanese army be sent into the Palestinian refugee camps to search for terrorists that Israel insisted were hiding there. However, Eitan said the regular army was not up to the task, adding: "Let me explain to you. Lebanon is at a point of exploding into a frenzy of revenge. No one can stop them. They're [the Phalangists] obsessed with the idea of revenge....I'm telling you that some of their commanders visited me, and I could see in their eyes that it's going to be a relentless slaughter."18
On the same day, Eitan explained to the Israeli cabinet that Phalangist forces would soon enter Palestinian refugee camps under Israeli orders to search out terrorists. As summarized by the Israeli inquiry commission:
"He said, inter alia, that he had informed the Phalange commanders that their men would have to take part in the operation and go in where they were told, that early that evening they would begin to fight and would enter the extremity of Sabra, that the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] would ensure that they did not fail in their operation but IDF soldiers would not enter the camps and would not fight together with the Phalangists, rather the Phalangists would go in there 'with their own methods.' In his remarks, the chief of staff explained that the camps were surrounded 'by us,' that the Phalangists would begin to operate that night in the camps, that we could give them orders...."19
At 6 p.m. that day, Sept. 16, a company of 150 "special" Phalange forces under Elie Hobeika, the feared intelligence chief of the Christian Phalange militia, moved into the cramped streets of the Shatila Palestinian refugee camp. Darkness was falling and Israeli mortar units and airplanes dropped flares to aid the Phalangists' progress.20
The Israeli forward command post in West Beirut was located on the roof of a five-story building about two football fields southwest of Shatila. Next to Shatila was Sabra camp, the two camps merging without clear definition and sprawling over about three square miles. About 90,000 persons lived in the two camps.21
At about 7 p.m., an Israeli officer stationed at the forward command post heard a Phalangist receive a radio request for orders on what to do with 50 women and children being held in a section of the camp. "This is the last time you're going to ask me a question like that, you know exactly what to do," replied Hobeika.22 According to the Israeli inquiry report, the Israeli officer who overheard this exchange "understood that what was involved was the murder of the women and children."23
At the same time, a Phalangist liaison officer reported that 300 persons had already been killed by the Phalangists in the camps. When Israeli Chief of Military Intelligence Yehoshua Saguy heard this report he merely asked it to be checked for accuracy. He did not pass it on or take any other action.24
At 8:40 p.m., General Yaron's intelligence officer briefed the division's commanders that only two Phalangists had been wounded and that the fighting inside the camps did not seem serious. "...It seems they're trying to decide what to do with the people they find inside. On the one hand, there are evidently no terrorists in the camp; Sabra is empty. On the other, they've gathered up women, children and probably old people and don't know quite what to do with them."25
The massacre of the innocents was about to begin in earnest.
Phalangist forces killed civilians indiscriminately inside the camps throughout the night of Sept. 16/17. There were no PLO guerrillas to protect the defenseless women, children and old people nor U.S. forces to make good America's promise to protect the civilians. Whole families were gunned down or knifed to death. One infant was stomped to death by a man wearing spiked shoes. Another refugee was killed by live grenades draped around his neck.26 Bulldozers were brought in, mass graves hastily dug and truckloads of bodies dumped in them. Throughout the night, the shooting and the screams did not stop.27
Israel allowed the Phalangists to remain in the camps until 8 a.m., Sept. 18-even though it was known by the morning of Sept. 17 that a massacre was taking place. When the media pointed a finger at Israel, the Israeli cabinet rejected any blame. A prepared cabinet statement said: "A blood libel has been perpetrated against the Jewish people."28 Prime Minister Begin memorably declared: "Goyim kill Goyim and they blame the Jew."29
The Israeli commission of inquiry concluded that 700 to 800 persons had been killed in the Sabra and Shatila camps.30 Non-Israeli estimates were considerably higher. The Palestine Red Crescent put the number at over 2,000, while Lebanese authorities reported 762 bodies recovered and 1,200 death certificates issued.31
It was not until the last week of September that Israeli troops finally withdrew from Beirut. Many West Beirutis complained that the Israelis looted and sacked their homes and businesses as they retreated. Truckloads of plundered booty were seen heading back toward Israel in convoys. Dr. Sabri Jiryis, director of the Palestine Liberation Organization's Research Center in Beirut, complained that Israeli soldiers carted away the center's entire 25,000-volume research library of books in Arabic, English and Hebrew. They also smashed desks, filing cabinets and other equipment and stole a printing press, telephones and electrical appliances.32
Left behind by the Israelis were vast death and destruction in Beirut and graffiti saying "Palestinian? What's That?" and "Palestinians, fuck you."33

RECOMMENDED READING:
Ball, George W., Error and Betrayal in Lebanon, Washington, DC: Foundation for Middle East Peace, 1984.
Chomsky, Noam, The Fateful Triangle, Boston: South End Press, 1983.
Cooley, John K., Payback: America's Long War in the Middle East, New York: Brassey's (U.S.), Inc., 1991.
Fisk, Robert, Pity the Nation: The Abduction of Lebanon, New York: Atheneum, 1990.
*Friedman, Thomas L., From Beirut to Jerusalem, New York, Farrar Strass Giroux, 1989.
*Hart, Alan, Arafat: Terrorist or Peacemaker?, London: Sidgwick & Jackson, 1985.
Jansen, Michael, The Battle of Beirut: Why Israel Invaded Lebanon, London: Zed Press, 1982.
MacBride, Sean (chairman), Israel in Lebanon: The Report of the International Commission to enquire into reported violations of International Law by Israel during its invasion of the Lebanon, London: Ithaca Press, 1983.
*Mallison, Thomas and Sally V., Armed Conflict in Lebanon, 1982: Humanitarian Law in a Real World Setting, Washington, DC: American Educational Trust, 1985.
*Randal, Jonathan, Going all the Way , New York: The Viking Press, 1983.
*Schiff, Ze'ev and Ehud Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War, New York: Simon and Schuster, 1984.
Timerman, Jacobo (trans: Miquel Acoca), The Longest War: Israel in Lebanon, New York: Vantage Books, 1982.

FOOTNOTES:
1. Excerpts in New York Times, 2/9/83, and in "Final Report of the Israeli Commission of Inquiry," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XII, No. 3, Spring 1983, pp. 89-116.
2. David Halevy and Neil C. Livingstone, "The Killing of Abu Jihad," The Washingtonian, June 1988.
3. Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem, pp. 164-5.
4. See, for instance, Ball, Error and Betrayal in Lebanon; Jansen, The Battle of Beirut; MacBride, Israel in Lebanon; Mallisons, Armed Conflict in Lebanon, 1982; Schiff and Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War ; Timerman, The Longest War.
5. Fisk, Pity the Nation, p. 395. Also see Chomsky, The Fateful Triangle, pp. 267-68.
6. Schiff and Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War, p. 221.
7. Ibid., p. 221; also see "Chronology of the Israeli Invasion of Lebanon," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vols. XI 4, XII 1, Summer/Fall 1982, p. 181.
8. Schiff & Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War, p. 225.
9. "Chronology of the Israeli Invasion of Lebanon," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vols. XI 4, XII 1, Summer/Fall 1982, 189.
10. Ball, Error and Betrayal in Lebanon, p. 46.
11. Ibid., pp. 55-56.
12. Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem, pp. 152-53.
13. MacBride, Israel in Lebanon, p. 164.
14. Randal, Going All the Way, pp. 1-5; Collins, "Chronology of the Israeli War in Lebanon," Journal of Palestine Studies, Winter 1983, p. 99. Also see Schiff & Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War , pp. 247-8; Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem, pp. 157-8; Hart, Arafat, p. 460; Fisk, Pity the Nation, p. 463.
15. MacBride, Israel in Lebanon, p. 166.
16. Ibid. , p. 166.
17. Ibid., p. 163.
18. Schiff & Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War, pp. 259-60.
19. "Final Report of the Israeli Commission of Inquiry into the Events at the Refugee Camps in Beirut," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XII, No. 3, Spring 1983, 97.
20. Ibid., pp. 93-4.
21. MacBride, Israel in Lebanon, p. 162.
22. "Final Report of the Israeli Commission of Inquiry into the Events at the Refugee Camps in Beirut," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XII, No. 3, Spring 1983, P. 95. Also see Cooley, Payback, pp. 70-1.
23. Ibid. , p. 95.
24. Ibid., p. 112.
25. Schiff & Ya'ari, Israel's Lebanon War, p. 262.
26. Ibid., p. 264.
27. Time, 10/4/82, p, 22.
28. Ball, Error and Betrayal in Lebanon, p. 58.
29. Silver, Begin, p. 236.
30. "Final Report of the Israeli Commission of Inquiry into the Events at the Refugee Camps in Beirut," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XII, No. 3, Spring 1983, p. 105.
31. Ball, Error and Betrayal in Lebanon, p. 57. These figures conform with estimates by the Lebanese government reported by Jack Redden of United Press International on 10/13/82. Also see Carol Collins, "Chronology of the Israeli War in Lebanon," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XII, No. 2, Winter 1983, p. 116.
32. Washington Post , 9/29/82. Also see Ihsan A. Hijazi, New York Times, 9/30/82; Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem, p. 159. Israel returned the archives on Nov. 24, 1983; see David Koff, "Chronology of the War in Lebanon, September-November, 1983," Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. XIII, No.2, Winter 1984, 154.
33. Friedman, From Beirut to Jerusalem, p. 159.
*Available from the AET Book Club

 

[sch00lteacher]

You have to consider the amount of faith they have. They believe in their religion. No questions, no doubts. No maybes.

Here, they have nothing. Life is a struggle. If they die a martyr... They are set for eternity. I am sure they have to turn kids and adults away from the chance to do their duty to Allah.

You can't fight that, Israel loses every time they kill a Palestinian. They will have to kill every last one of them for it to be over.

 

[Lost Cause]

It's nothing personal people...it's religion! Allah promises a paradise to martyrs, so pack your kid's lunch. give them their C-4, and send them to catch a bus! you don't see Israeli's doing suicide bombings, do ya? It's a three thousand year dance them monkeys have been tappin' a beat to. I think the only thing that will stop them is a megaton sunburn ala armageddon. How come Jordan or Saudi or Egypt or UAE won't give the Palestinians a homeland? How come those countries turn their backs on their "brothers and sisters?"
Until those fucking Arab (general) countries acknowledge everyone's right to live there, the air is going to smell like sulphur and nitrate over there for a few hundred years more!

 

[scylis]

You can't fight that, Israel loses every time they kill a Palestinian. They will have to kill every last one of them for it to be over.

and in the same token, Palestine loses every time they kill an Israeli. neither side is going to give an inch unless forced to, and even then they just take it back soon afterwards, or they at least try to, anyway. neither side is better than the other.

the whole area is just fucked, plain and simple.

 

[Ishmael]

What is the mindset of these people? How could any parent allow their children to be used in this manner? These people are sick, there is no excuse, Odd how the brave men who run the show arent blowing themselves up. Old Arafat should wrap himself up and do the deed himself.

Not just "allow", but actually train them from the time they're toddlers.

Mensa keeps harping on 'desperation'. I submit it's gone far beyond that. This is an act of religious belief. A seed of mistaken faith that will bear fruit far into the future.

Comic books are circulated among the children. Not propoganda about how evil Isreal and the United States are, but about "How to kill the Infidel."

The rest of the Arab world is giving the Palestinians 'passive' support, but little else, for one reason. The leaders, if not the people, understand that if the Palestinians ever do achieve their goal of expelling the Isreali's, that they will turn their brand of religious zeal inwards and start killing their own brethren who do not measure up to the Prophet in their eyes. I don't have to cite any examples of this, do I?

To accept and excuse the Palestinians methods, and to accept their belief that the act of killing infidels, even if it means the purposeful ending of your own life, is to HAVE to excuse Andrea Yates behavior. After all, the end goals were the same.

This is no longer about territory and a homeland. Hasn't been for quite a while. Arafat proved that when he walked away from Camp David. He was given everything he asked for, and more. Instead of accepting what he wanted, he escalated the war. Rational people usually don't keep fighting after they've won.

Ishmael

 

[peterpan]

Let the nation that is without child murders cast the first stone. If you can find a nation like that, then perhaps I will accept there is such a thing as a good people and a bad people.

There are certainly hate groups active in palestine, and to an extreme degree, far more extreme than in any western country, but just a few decades ago there were jewish terrorists and no jewish homeland. There are lots of extremists to be found.

Extremists don't fight extremists. They are really two sides of the same organism. One side performs atrocities on civilians of the other, swelling its ranks with fresh meat, the other says thank you and returns the favor. If extremists actually just killed extremists the numbers would diminish.

 

[riff]

As most of you can tell, I have a problem with the notion of evil.

I hated Reagan when he called Soviet Union "the Evil Empire."
I hated the son of son of Reagan's plethora of "evil" remarks.

When we demonize others, we demonize ourselves.

 

[Ishmael]

OK

As most of you can tell, I have a problem with the notion of evil.

I hated Reagan when he called Soviet Union "the Evil Empire."
I hated the son of son of Reagan's plethora of "evil" remarks.

When we demonize others, we demonize ourselves.

But if the notion of 'evil' is out of your vocabulary, then one must discard it's antithesis too. Ergo, there is no 'good' either.

Ishmael

 

[Mensa]

Re: Re: How can a parent send their child to die?

Mensa keeps harping on 'desperation'. I submit it's gone far beyond that. This is an act of religious belief. A seed of mistaken faith that will bear fruit far into the future.
Ishmael

Let's clear one thing up here. This is a political war, not a religious one. Surprised?? You shouldn't be. This has as much to do with religion as does Northern Ireland. It is power politics, pure and simple. They drag in religion because that is the only thing that will motivate people to take part. Telling the people to go to war so their leaders can enhance their political power and prestige would get them nowhere and they know it. But Faith? now there is a powerful weapon. Let's use that!

Nowhere in Islam does it promise murderers passage into Paradise. Murderers will experience eternal torment for their actions. Martyrs are made that promise. While they may have mistakenly believed the lies they were told, they obviously don't know what a real martyr is. A martyr is someone who is killed for his belief, not someone who kills for his belief. An important distinction.

 

[WriterDom]

The family gets $$$$$$$
and the kid gets laid in heaven

it's a win/win deal

 

[riff]

Re: OK

But if the notion of 'evil' is out of your vocabulary, then one must discard it's antithesis too. Ergo, there is no 'good' either.

Ishmael

There are good people and there are people who are in pain.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: Re: How can a parent send their child to die?

Let's clear one thing up here. This is a political war, not a religious one. Surprised?? You shouldn't be. This has as much to do with religion as does Northern Ireland. It is power politics, pure and simple. They drag in religion because that is the only thing that will motivate people to take part. Telling the people to go to war so their leaders can enhance their political power and prestige would get them nowhere and they know it. But Faith? now there is a powerful weapon. Let's use that!

Nowhere in Islam does it promise murderers passage into Paradise. Murderers will experience eternal torment for their actions. Martyrs are made that promise. While they may have mistakenly believed the lies they were told, they obviously don't know what a real martyr is. A martyr is someone who is killed for his belief, not someone who kills for his belief. An important distinction.

First of all, there is nothing to clear up. I'm as aware of the political situation as you. And that is NOT what this thread is about.

Arafat et al are playing the political game, but the masses under them started their own game based on, in your reading, a perverted aspect of Islam.

And it is that aspect of the game that is out of control and will prevent a political solution.

"One must be very careful when one starts a witch hunt based on religion, for the initiator is as likely to be offered up to the stake as the witch."

Ishmael

 

[SINthysist]

Mensa,

Why is it we demand Israel negotiate?
Why is it the Palestinians keep walking away from negotiations?
Why the double standard?

One would think that sort of desperation calls for grasping at straws and achieving that which is possible. These are not the acts of desperate people but the ordered acts of a vicious megalomaniac and I for one will be glad when the earth is rid of him and his henchmen…

 

[ksmybuttons]

One would think that sort of desperation calls for grasping at straws and achieving that which is possible. These are not the acts of desperate people but the ordered acts of a vicious megalomaniac and I for one will be glad when the earth is rid of him and his henchmen…

Do you care enough to send your child to die for your belief?