Hope

[twelveoone]

after receiveing my share of tauting anonymous emails, I received this (editted to remove identifcation) with a return address.

Well, thank you for reading my submission,xxx, and for taking the
time to vote and comment. I'm sorry you didn't care for it or that you
thought it was a xxx cliche.

Whoa, I think this may have even been a 50, I know god damn well it wasn't 100.
Well my pleasure, thank you for accepting it in the spirit in which it was given.

I just thought I'd bring it up, because over there is dying, in some part because of fear.

In the past I and others have been accused of malice and various other things, this is what the outcome is, no comments, no improvement.

And I am man enough to realize I can be wrong, but more likely it is what I see is just different than what you see. This illuminates possible problem areas, that is all.

To the person that sent this to me, I wish you success.

To the people that illuminated possible problem areas on mine,
I miss you, YDD, and Tarablackwood22.
and to the people still here, half of you I thank

and the other half
are just plain wrong

 

[bronzeage]

Its a simple fact, poetry is the most accessable writing art. Free from all the constraints of grammar and form, anyone can put words on a page and call it poetry.

The second most accessable writing art is poetry critique. I have always been amused by the way critique varies from one site to another. Each site takes on its own personality. Most sites are blind cheerleader camp, where effort and not product are applauded. Other sites are some kind of poetic bootcamp, where no effort, however good, is good enough, going on the principal, 'if you can't find something wrong with it, you aren't paying attention'.

For myself, I keep critique in forums where the work is submitted for that kind of comment. In general showcase forums, if I like a piece, I'll make a positive comment, but if I don't like it, the author will never know I read it.

 

[twelveoone]

Its a simple fact, poetry is the most accessable writing art. Free from all the constraints of grammar and form, anyone can put words on a page and call it poetry.

The second most accessable writing art is poetry critique. I have always been amused by the way critique varies from one site to another. Each site takes on its own personality. Most sites are blind cheerleader camp, where effort and not product are applauded. Other sites are some kind of poetic bootcamp, where no effort, however good, is good enough, going on the principal, 'if you can't find something wrong with it, you aren't paying attention'.

For myself, I keep critique in forums where the work is submitted for that kind of comment. In general showcase forums, if I like a piece, I'll make a positive comment, but if I don't like it, the author will never know I read it.

Points well taken,
however if you don't speak, it will become nothing but the blind cheerleader camp it was, and most people could use a little slant on things, let me a little stronger any open. learning person wants a little different slant on thing. One of the things I once liked about this place was it was a great place in between.

 

[champagne1982]

To the people that illuminated possible problem areas on mine,
I miss you, YDD, and Tarablackwood22.
and to the people still here, half of you I thank

and the other half
are just plain wrong

I'll take a one in two chance and say, you're welcome.

Seriously, I know you believe that we only get back what we give, so if we want value in, there'd better be value out. I hope I've accomplished some sort of fair exchange, since I've got quality people returning quality critique on things I've asked them to.

About the new poems and public comments and voting. I don't think I accept anonymous comment and I do know that my votes are turned off so, if people want valuable crit from me, they really should bring their poems here, to the forum. If they want my impression and comment, they'll only get it if I'm strongly affected or if it's my review day.

I approach a review differently than I do critique, so sue me. I try not to waste mine, or the other members who read that thread's, time with trying to find value in the shag rug when there's quality hardwood in a different room. So, I tend to gloss over my review with simple comments when I don't feel like spending the time in detailed critique.

Sue me. I read them all when it's my turn and most of the time that's all the people submitting here want.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

For myself, I keep critique in forums where the work is submitted for that kind of comment. In general showcase forums, if I like a piece, I'll make a positive comment, but if I don't like it, the author will never know I read it.

I'm glad to see this particular idea elucidated. I have similar policies, I guess. I'm far more inclined to tell someone what works for me than what doesn't, and I think of the actual formal submissions as a place for work one considers "finished," partly because it's sort of a pain to re-submit. Critique on those pieces doesn't bother me, and I'll take it into account, but I'm less likely to shift something there than I am to edit and change a draft I've posted on one of the threads in here, since I consider those pieces unfinished.

I start with the assumption that no one's going to understand what the hell I'm talking about in any given piece. That's why one form of critique that helps me a great deal is when someone says, "i got that; I understood it." It's the type of comment I tend to give, as well. That's not the same as just saying "wow that was great;" it's pointing out specific lines where a poet really reached me, really made sense, really hit me in the head with something.

good point; thank you
bijou

 

[twelveoone]

I'll take a one in two chance and say, you're welcome.

Seriously, I know you believe that we only get back what we give, so if we want value in, there'd better be value out. I hope I've accomplished some sort of fair exchange, since I've got quality people returning quality critique on things I've asked them to.

About the new poems and public comments and voting. I don't think I accept anonymous comment and I do know that my votes are turned off so, if people want valuable crit from me, they really should bring their poems here, to the forum. If they want my impression and comment, they'll only get it if I'm strongly affected or if it's my review day.

I approach a review differently than I do critique, so sue me. I try not to waste mine, or the other members who read that thread's, time with trying to find value in the shag rug when there's quality hardwood in a different room. So, I tend to gloss over my review with simple comments when I don't feel like spending the time in detailed critique.

Sue me. I read them all when it's my turn and most of the time that's all the people submitting here want.

on the threads what you get is a tendecy to the norm phenomena, and closed circle critique, if I wanted that I'd form my own buddy fuck circle, now wouldn't I?

And the best, bar none, commenter on poems was YDD, didn't see her on the threads.

Sorry Champ, poetry is too wide open to accept those limitations.

 

[champagne1982]

on the threads what you get is a tendecy to the norm phenomena, and closed circle critique, if I wanted that I'd form my own buddy fuck circle, now wouldn't I?

And the best, bar none, commenter on poems was YDD, didn't see her on the threads.

Sorry Champ, poetry is too wide open to accept those limitations.

Review vs Report.

One is an opinion on the value of a work, the other is an analysis of the quality. I choose to accept these limitations when I REVIEW any publicly consumed product. As I said, I will not waste my time in unappreciated and unwanted critique. That is a comment on the boundaries I set in my involvement in poetry submitted to the general reader.

If I come across a poem posted in a critique and workshop thread that I feel I want to spend some time with, I don't hesitate and that is where the wider opening swings out and ruins the line of the circle.

You set a high bar and sadly, I'm not up to trying to leap over it but happily, I don't measure my own worth in how high I'm willing to jump. I like where I stand.

eta: This is not the only venue or medium I use to work through poetry in. Maybe that's where geometric drawings fall away and expand to a sphere, right here, in three dimensions.

 

[twelveoone]

Review vs Report.

One is an opinion on the value of a work, the other is an analysis of the quality. I choose to accept these limitations when I REVIEW any publicly consumed product. As I said, I will not waste my time in unappreciated and unwanted critique. That is a comment on the boundaries I set in my involvement in poetry submitted to the general reader.

If I come across a poem posted in a critique and workshop thread that I feel I want to spend some time with, I don't hesitate and that is where the wider opening swings out and ruins the line of the circle.

You set a high bar and sadly, I'm not up to trying to leap over it but happily, I don't measure my own worth in how high I'm willing to jump. I like where I stand.

eta: This is not the only venue or medium I use to work through poetry in. Maybe that's where geometric drawings fall away and expand to a sphere, right here, in three dimensions.

try four baby
other that, your NPR I've never objected too. it is consistent with your view, thereforth fair.
what I am saying babe, is you limit yourself, it shows. I am going to write poetry, I am going to review poetry and it is that defination of what poetry is that is your limitation. Open it up some.
i.e. what did you think of Deepasleep's E?
Does he do a lot of stuff wrong?
Do I?
(he says waving the red flag of wrongness)

Now if I was of the zen persuasion, I would tell you too much yin turns into yang, too much yang turns into yin, yadda, yadda. ( Actually that is tao not chán or more correctly d​͡zʲen. but what the fuck do I know )

for that matter, Q. Senna Jawa? does he do something wrong? I still don't understand him.

These are largely rhetorical questions, for your consideration.

 

[twelveoone]

Another note to lorencino.

I know, some would think I just blasted you in NPR. I just took some time to go over some of the past weeks submissions. I am impressed with your comments. I don't remember if I agree, doesn't matter;

[KUDOS to lorencino]​

they show thought, effort.

ps did you like the brackets?

 

[champagne1982]

Oh baby, oh. I need to CMA I think. My rhetoric actually, did get shook and my ass was metaphorically kicked, somehow. I really do agree M. douzeOhUn. My poetry was boxed into a neat little package that needed the wrapper ripped off. It's the packing tape that's tough to get off. So, thanks for spankin' my trunk.

Now, do you think you could stop twisting my arm?

 

[foehn2]

Then too, there's my favorite joke, about the Texan who gets (miraculously) accepted into Harvard University. Is that in Massachusetts somewhere?

Well anyway, during his freshman year, not really knowing his surroundings that well, he bumps into a senior-classman and asks:

"Say, can you tell me where the library is at?"

The more senior student replies somberly: "Here at Harvard, we do not end sentences with prepositions."

The Texan, pondering that statement for a moment, replies: "All right. Can you tell me where the library is at, asshole?"

 

[foehn2]

Or my second-favorite joke. A Texas girl in a boarding school, from a poor family, goes home with her rich roommate for the holidays.

Her roommate drives her around the ranch. "See that pasture? My daddy gave me that 'cause he loves me."

The poorer girl says, "How nice!"

"Oh," says the rich girl, "And he gave me this pickup, too!"

Her friend says, again, "How nice!"

"Oh, and see all them horses over yonder? They're mine, my daddy gave them to me for a Christmas present."

"How nice!" replies her friend.

They continue the tour in silence for a while, and finally, the rich girl seems to get curious.

"My daddy gave me all this stuff!" she says. "What did your daddy do for you?"

The friend says, "My daddy sent me to a boarding school, so I could learn how to say, 'How nice!' instead of 'Fuck you!' "