Hope for Schizophrenics!

[3113]

No joke.

In A world first that could bring hope to thousands of schizophrenics, Melbourne scientists have discovered that a form of the disease is linked to a lack of certain proteins in the brain's lining. The discovery that one in four schizophrenics has the defect could lead to better treatments and earlier diagnosis of the condition.

...Until now, schizophrenia has been diagnosed from the presence of symptoms such as hallucinations, social withdrawal and deterioration in self-care. "With that level of diagnosis, it is quite likely there are a number of different diseases that come under the order of one disorder," said Professor Dean. "But we have shown that 25 per cent of people who have schizophrenia have lost 80 per cent of a protein in their brain known as muscarinic M1 receptor. We have now separated off that group and we can try to understand the cause of that deficiency."

The area of the brain most affected is the cortex, or surface, that is vital for rational thought, logic, long-term memory, learning speed and problem solving.

..."We have a huge task ahead of us to find out exactly what this (discovery) means. What we are hoping for is to come up with a marker to diagnose schizophrenia over the next two years."

Full story here.

 

[Huckleman2000]

This is really big - the lack of known biological markers for mental illnesses is one of those stigma-inducing aspects of trying to live with the conditions.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I wonder if the schizophrenia in question is the one that attacks children. We've had a couple of cases at our school and they are so terribly, terribly sad. Without going into details, all you have to do is look at an affected third graders drawing to know that something is horribly wrong.

And if not, then perhaps the next organic marker they come up with will be. Now pray for a treatment!

 

[Xelebes]

Hm, fascinating.

 

[Katyusha]

Wonder if my mother knows about this and whether or not this research could help her out.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Very interesting findings. On a side but slightly related note, there have been recent studies on individuals struggling with Asperger's and Autism that indicate that these people struggle with an over-identification with the emotions of others rather than what was originally thought (that they felt no emotions at all).

The study of mental disorders continues to branch out and the findings are truly useful I think.

 

[Katyusha]

Very interesting findings. On a side but slightly related note, there have been recent studies on individuals struggling with Asperger's and Autism that indicate that these people struggle with an over-identification with the emotions of others rather than what was originally thought (that they felt no emotions at all).

'Splain please?

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

A Radical New Autism Theory
by Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger’s do not lack empathy—rather they feel others’ emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger’s syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the “intense world” theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

“I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”

“There are those who say autistic people don’t feel enough,” says Kamila Markram. “We’re saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much.” Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents’ voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou Reed’s Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger’s Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

“I think that it’s a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy,” he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—“if you’ve seen one Aspie, you’ve seen one Aspie,” he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, “I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply.”

So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD? The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called “theory of mind”—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she’s gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Normal four year olds know that Sally didn’t see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that’s where the marble is and they don’t realize that other people don’t share all of their knowledge.

It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives—and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don’t realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

But that doesn’t mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people’s experience, they don’t care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, “are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right.” Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger’s talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn’t deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams’ theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet.net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger’s.

“If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy” one person commented. “If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me.”

Said another, “I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else’s pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

“These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it’s just difficult for them,” says Markram, “It’s quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw.”

Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

A Radical New Autism Theory
by Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger’s do not lack empathy—rather they feel others’ emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger’s syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the “intense world” theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

“I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”

“There are those who say autistic people don’t feel enough,” says Kamila Markram. “We’re saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much.” Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents’ voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou Reed’s Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger’s Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

“I think that it’s a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy,” he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—“if you’ve seen one Aspie, you’ve seen one Aspie,” he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, “I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply.”

So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD? The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called “theory of mind”—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she’s gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Normal four year olds know that Sally didn’t see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that’s where the marble is and they don’t realize that other people don’t share all of their knowledge.

It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives—and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don’t realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

But that doesn’t mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people’s experience, they don’t care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, “are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right.” Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger’s talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn’t deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams’ theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet.net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger’s.

“If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy” one person commented. “If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me.”

Said another, “I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else’s pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

“These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it’s just difficult for them,” says Markram, “It’s quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw.”

Yeah, it's just like that. Safer to be alone, most times.

 

[3113]

Yeah, it's just like that. Safer to be alone, most times.

Or on the internet

 

[Xelebes]

As my psychiatrist notes of my behaviour, since I do not have any firm say on whether or not a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum is in order, I am extremely sensitive to the changes in relationships. It is yet to be determined whether or not my sensitivity to this inhibits the learning of behaviours and communication skills. That is what the testing should hint.

 

[Xelebes]

As my psychiatrist notes of my behaviour, since I do not have any firm say on whether or not a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum is in order, I am extremely sensitive to the changes in relationships. It is yet to be determined whether or not my sensitivity to this inhibits the learning of behaviours and communication skills. That is what the testing should hint.

forgot to clarify what "change in relationships" means. Change here means tha I feel that people are shifting or re-aligning their relationships such that I can't quite determine what is going on and, as a result, I get confused, disoriented, anxious and, at times, paranoid.

 

[3113]

forgot to clarify what "change in relationships" means. Change here means tha I feel that people are shifting or re-aligning their relationships such that I can't quite determine what is going on and, as a result, I get confused, disoriented, anxious and, at times, paranoid.

[whispers]Quick! Everyone change names and avatars.[/whispers]

 

[Xelebes]

[whispers]Quick! Everyone change names and avatars.[/whispers]

I see a smiley, so I know what's going on.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I see a smiley, so I know what's going on.

People need to carry a box of smilies around when they're in the 'real world'. It would certainly help sometimes.

 

[Xelebes]

People need to carry a box of smilies around when they're in the 'real world'. It would certainly help sometimes.

And at least a complete set of ASCII characters for the more subtly dramatic smileys.

∫(д,д)

 

[Katyusha]

People need to carry a box of smilies around when they're in the 'real world'. It would certainly help sometimes.

Uh yah.

And at least a complete set of ASCII characters for the more subtly dramatic smileys.

∫(д,д)

Yep. They're not big...smileys and ASCIIs could be carried around in a wallet couldn't they?

 

[3113]

People need to carry a box of smilies around when they're in the 'real world'. It would certainly help sometimes.

I think those are called facial expressions But they only really work if you're looking at the person.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think those are called facial expressions But they only really work if you're looking at the person.

Look?


At a person?

 

[Xelebes]

I'm getting scared now. Why can't I just look at your feet? I know you don't talk with your feet but... but...

 

[Huckleman2000]

This is really interesting to me, because in my ongoing interest in Depression, some of the latest thinking there also surrounds sensitivity and perception. In Depression, one underlying mechanism may be that those who are susceptible to it have abnormal "fight/flight" fear response systems. Once set off, the brain doesn't shift back into normal mode like it should, once the threat has passed. So the brain (and body) remain in the sort of heightened sensitivity, which leads to withdrawal and depressive symptoms.

When that article talked about Asperger's, and how empathy is a two-part cognitive process - it occurs to me that if Asperger's is an abnormality in one part of that, perhaps Depression would be linked to the other.

 

[DesertPirate]

No joke.

Full story here.

This could help both of me

 

[Verdad]

I'm more than a little rusty with this, but the article seems a bit misleading in the importance it gives to the discovery. Post mortems have long shown differences in brain topography between schizophrenics and those who hadn't suffered from the disease. Same with various brain imaging techniques on live subjects. The particular finding the article mentions may be new and may give cause for optimism, but other organic and neurophysiological correlates of schizophrenia have been investigated for a while now. The picture with both etiology and treatment is nothing if not complex.

Perhaps also worth mentioning, while the article speaks of different disorders being lumped under the same name, diagnostic practice differentiates among several types of schizophrenia (paranoid, hebephrenic, catatonic, etc), and has been doing so for a long time.

Don't know if info this vague is of any interest, but I thought to throw it in.

 

[Xelebes]

This is really interesting to me, because in my ongoing interest in Depression, some of the latest thinking there also surrounds sensitivity and perception. In Depression, one underlying mechanism may be that those who are susceptible to it have abnormal "fight/flight" fear response systems. Once set off, the brain doesn't shift back into normal mode like it should, once the threat has passed. So the brain (and body) remain in the sort of heightened sensitivity, which leads to withdrawal and depressive symptoms.

When that article talked about Asperger's, and how empathy is a two-part cognitive process - it occurs to me that if Asperger's is an abnormality in one part of that, perhaps Depression would be linked to the other.

There is a known mutation of the genetic code that predisposes one to Autism is also found in the same location as another mutation for Schizophrenia - leading to some researchers to suggest that, for that specific piece of the genetic code, that there is two mutations that can be described as male and female mutations. Since it is known that autistics have a generally poor reception of social stimuli - to be determined whether or not that includes empathy - and that schizophrenics have particularly strong reception of social stimuli, they say that autism might be described as the male mutation and schizophrenia as the female mutation.

The article was posted in the Autism Awareness thread in the GB, you might want to look it up if I can't find it.

 

[Xelebes]

Never mind, I found it for you. Post #130.