Hey! Take a look at this!

[bogusbrig]

No one reads my poetry normally so I've stopped posting but I'm being an arse with this one. I'm getting you here under false pretences and while you're here I'd be grateful if you read this poem and flagellate me with hostile criticism if the mood takes you. Not my normal stuff and this poem makes me feel like I'm standing in front of class with my pants down but I like this poem so I thought I would subject the masses to it.

The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me

 

[twelveoone]

probably one of your best, There are a few akward lines:
"I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me"
I would think about dropping "guilty as charged"

Overall I find it very powerful
the contrast in the first stanza
the shadows in the second.
so on...

I will be back later, I have to find my gray matter

 

[bluerains]

some of your poetry

is often difficult to get a direct picture of what is in the authors thoughts..maybe thats why your not getting a lot of response...you tend to show a shelter of thought...the depth is beyond the reach of some ...but, this one is very understandable...and I could relate well ..as we all at one time been in such a state of affair ...the end of a mate and the guilt that swallows like a stiff drink of port...I enjoyed your take on it...blue

 

[bogusbrig]

probably one of your best, There are a few akward lines:
"I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me"
I would think about dropping "guilty as charged"

Overall I find it very powerful
the contrast in the first stanza
the shadows in the second.
so on...

I will be back later, I have to find my gray matter

That's the one line I've been wrestling with and prompted me to post it. Thanks 1201, you've confirmed my unease about it.

 

[bogusbrig]

is often difficult to get a direct picture of what is in the authors thoughts..maybe thats why your not getting a lot of response...you tend to show a shelter of thought...the depth is beyond the reach of some ...but, this one is very understandable...and I could relate well ..as we all at one time been in such a state of affair ...the end of a mate and the guilt that swallows like a stiff drink of port...I enjoyed your take on it...blue

Thanks blue.

 

[flyguy69]

Very nice, BB. Why do you say no one reads you? I have always loved your poetry!

I think you can trim it a bit (my suggestions in red) and add a bit (in blue, / = a line break) but I think it is quite good.

QUOTE=bogusbrig]No one reads my poetry normally so I've stopped posting but I'm being an arse with this one. I'm getting you here under false pretences and while you're here I'd be grateful if you read this poem and flagellate me with hostile criticism if the mood takes you. Not my normal stuff and this poem makes me feel like I'm standing in front of class with my pants down but I like this poem so I thought I would subject the masses to it.

The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, till it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table [this strophe is, dare I say it? a bit cliche!]

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector /of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be my charge

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me [Did you truely conspire to end the realationship?]
Thinking it’s not much fun /to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate ("obliterate" doesn't seem like the right word) me[/QUOTE]

Good luck.

 

[bogusbrig]

Very nice, BB. Why do you say no one reads you? I have always loved your poetry!

I think you can trim it a bit (my suggestions in red) and add a bit (in blue, / = a line break) but I think it is quite good.

Good luck.

Thanks Flyguy, you've given me plenty to think about. Some really good suggestions.

 

[twelveoone]

No one reads my poetry normally so I've stopped posting but I'm being an arse with this one. I'm getting you here under false pretences and while you're here I'd be grateful if you read this poem and flagellate me with hostile criticism if the mood takes you. Not my normal stuff and this poem makes me feel like I'm standing in front of class with my pants down but I like this poem so I thought I would subject the masses to it.

The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me

Bogus
Ist and 2nd stanzas go off like explosions, then it settles into remorse. Just noteing. Three of your lines end with "me", and to compound the problem, they rhyme with other words, I do not see this as forced, rather inadvertant. I do not think you want the effect.

"The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table"

"hollowness" I would think about discarding (you've used emptyness, already) possible replacing with "kitchen".
Here you begin to cross yourself, and the audience up.
Here are your words:
Old conversations
inane chatter
bickering
laughter
assign a charge to them (negative, neutral, positive), think about direction.
you are evoking too much, too complicated for one sentence
now assign who you thinking about with those charges. (wife, child)
You have a nice scene of carring a child to bed.

You also have a talent for burying rhyme, use it - if you wish to use inane and insane do so, just bring it closer to focus (line position).

I like the image of wanting the house to obliterating you.
Best, be back in I think of anything else.

 

[bogusbrig]

Bogus
Ist and 2nd stanzas go off like explosions, then it settles into remorse. Just noteing. Three of your lines end with "me", and to compound the problem, they rhyme with other words, I do not see this as forced, rather inadvertant. I do not think you want the effect.

"The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table"

"hollowness" I would think about discarding (you've used emptyness, already) possible replacing with "kitchen".
Here you begin to cross yourself, and the audience up.
Here are your words:
Old conversations
inane chatter
bickering
laughter
assign a charge to them (negative, neutral, positive), think about direction.
you are evoking too much, too complicated for one sentence
now assign who you thinking about with those charges. (wife, child)
You have a nice scene of carring a child to bed.

You also have a talent for burying rhyme, use it - if you wish to use inane and insane do so, just bring it closer to focus (line position).

I like the image of wanting the house to obliterating you.
Best, be back in I think of anything else.

Repositioning kitchen is a winner at first sight! Thought provoking thoughts 1201.

It's amazing how blind one gets to what one is writing.

 

[Guest]

Very nice, BB. Why do you say no one reads you? Good luck.

He didn't so no one read his poetry. He said no one reads it normally.

I like reading it hanging upside down from my 'fridge. The magnets and the vibration add to the thrill.


BB - it's totally bogus to think no one reads you. This poem is really good - wistful and evocotive and very different from your other work.

I agree with fly's suggestions except for "till". *Swat!*

 

[jthserra]

I like

I like what flyguy did, but would cut even deeper:



The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast <== powerful stuff here

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shrieks of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, with my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be were

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting I wait for this house to obliterate me <==perhaps "bury me"


just some thoughts here...

jim : )

 

[RhymeFairy]

I will leave editing to the others.
I love it BB.
Yeah I say that a lot,
I tend to go with how a poem * feels *.

I feel sadness here and I wanna hugg ya till you say
... Oh, Please I cannot breathe~
*grins

Good imagery and yes,
the flow def. needs some work,
but I love the feel and imagery here.
Great work ~

 

[bogusbrig]

He didn't so no one read his poetry. He said no one reads it normally.

I like reading it hanging upside down from my 'fridge. The magnets and the vibration add to the thrill.

How intuitive, you read my poetry in the same way I write it Tristesse, with my brain chilled, frothed and ionised but you forgot about the tipple of absinthe.

I feel sadness here and I wanna hugg ya till you say
... Oh, Please I cannot breathe~
*grins

Quick! Hug me tight before I pull my pants back up RhymeFairy.



Thanks jthserra, you've added to my thoughts.


I just want to thank everybody, whether I go with your suggestions or not I really appreciate all your input. You've all added something positive for me to ponder over. I'm going to see if I can pay you all back by improving the poem.

Thanks.

 

[RhymeFairy]

Quick! Hug me tight before I pull my pants back up RhymeFairy.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr

Carefullll

Whatcha ask for ...



You JUST might catch me in a mood, now
you wouldn't wanna DO that would ya~

 

[twelveoone]

I like what flyguy did, but would cut even deeper:



The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast <== powerful stuff here

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shrieks of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, with my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be were

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting I wait for this house to obliterate me <==perhaps "bury me"


just some thoughts here...

jim : )

Jim,
weighing in with a counterpoint, and a couple of questions.
Counter:
Bogus just had a nuclear blast, probably the most jolting image in the poem,
I think it calls for obliterate, annihilate etc. It is far away to avoid cliche effect, and would serve to tie it together.
Questions:
old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter, these seem a bit cluttered and in no order to me, why would you not change?

hollowness sighs with old conversations Does have a nice ring to it, but you do not think it is a good idea to cut down on the nesses?

Just wondering. I'm here to learn.

 

[annaswirls]

hey turkey I read your poetry normally without magnetics or acrobatics or pants. just sayin'

you got lots of good suggestions here-- I am all about cutting it down-- just wanted to give my vote on that

hehe

poetry is not a democracy! senna jawa

but I still want my vote damn it.

 

[Guest]

hey turkey I read your poetry normally without magnetics or acrobatics or pants. just sayin'

you got lots of good suggestions here-- I am all about cutting it down-- just wanted to give my vote on that

hehe

poetry is not a democracy! senna jawa

but I still want my vote damn it.

SeattleRain - is that you? You look just like.......


Oh, never mind.

 

[annaswirls]

SeattleRain - is that you? You look just like.......


Oh, never mind.

oh I know damn it.

my 4 year old did a photoshot of mom at her desk and the clutter of poetry everywhere and he really focused on some interesting details.... and like a proud mama I love them so much I can't help but plaster them everywhere



https://home.comcast.net/~the_editors/window.JPG

https://home.comcast.net/~the_editors/mom.JPG

 

[Tzara]

https://home.comcast.net/~the_editors/mom.JPG

Uh, gee, Anna, you seem to have a lamp growing out of your forehead. Shouldn't you maybe see a doctor?

Or at least an interior decorator?

 

[Tzara]

I like what flyguy did, but would cut even deeper:



The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast <== powerful stuff here

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shrieks of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, with my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be were

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting I wait for this house to obliterate me <==perhaps "bury me"


just some thoughts here...

jim : )

Now that was so goddam impressive I am left speechless. Er, typingless?

Whatever.

I think I will sit in the corner and be quiet for a while.

 

[anonamouse]

1201 tells me, you may have a great in the making here. Taking a cue from jthserra, Tzara et al. I have cut it down further

Family once nuclear
goes boom
I stand in the ruins
and welcome
the choking ashes of guilt

Note: I got rid of the "ME" and the end of the lines.

No, lets cut down all the articles, excess verbiage

Nuclear family
BOOM
choke
in guilt
ashes

 

[twelveoone]

Stop it mouse. Yes, I do think this has the potential. I'll come back to it.

 

[twelveoone]

The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room
To such a point, it is impossible to believe
We could have lived here so cramped

And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent
The ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls
Like victims of a nuclear blast

The hollowness sighs with old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter
And your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table

Carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, my insane monkey walk
You could not sleep without my kiss
And a thousand goodnights and sleep tights

But now you are mute or at least to me
I was supposed to be the protector of your home
But I betrayed all that we had come to be

Even my co-conspirator has abandoned me
Thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility
I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me

Bogus,
I hope I am not boring you to tears with this, but fuck it anyway. I think you have the beginning of something that goes beyond good.
Certain things bother me about this, I will try to speak about it in clear English, not my native tougue.
You have a nuclear blast - good play on nuclear BTW, probably the stongest image in the poem. To detonate there is a small explosion to get that moment of compression, then of course the big blast, fire, dust settling. Let's go with this, for a moment.


old conversations The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter This bothers me, where it is is seems too compressed after the blast.

The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room This I like, I know Jim chopped for redundnancy. Does it expand the meaning you wish? Now think about this image after the blast.

guilty as charged This sort of hangs, who is charging you with what? I do not think introduction of co-conspirator does enough, sure we can figure it out, and Flyguy was careful to introduce another charge, but as is how well does it fit with the house and blast. Everything should be in a sort of relationship with these two main ideas.

me at the end of line, words at the end of line, you should pay attention to, a quick scan gives you "me, me, me" a song of yourself. This acts as a separation between you and the audience, you want them to choke, be crushed with you.

obliterate I covered above, again, what is the relationship with the blast, house, I think it is a strong one. (minority opinion)

yea, I know I can be a disgreeable bastard but I think you have the birth of something beyond good here, work on it, wouldn't mind seeing a different version in PDC or here. Don't settle for good poetry, not with this.

 

[bogusbrig]

yea, I know I can be a disgreeable bastard but I think you have the birth of something beyond good here, work on it, wouldn't mind seeing a different version in PDC or here. Don't settle for good poetry, not with this.

Thanks for your vote of confidence 1201. You're tuned into what I'm trying to get at. I'm going to spend the evening on it and see where it takes me and I'll post here.

 

[jthserra]

I think the general point is

What I saw in BBs first draft was basically an eloquent work of prose:



The emptiness expands the dimensions of the room to such a point, it is impossible to believe we could have lived here so cramped. And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent the ashen shadows of the furniture, staining the walls like victims of a nuclear blast.

The hollowness sighs with old conversations, the inane chatter, the bickering and laughter and your shriek of fear as I chased you around the kitchen table carrying you off to bed whilst I performed, my insane monkey walk. You could not sleep without my kiss and a thousand goodnights and sleep tights, but now you are mute or at least to me.

I was supposed to be the protector of your home but I betrayed all that we had come to be, even my co-conspirator has abandoned me thinking it’s not much fun to take responsibility. I stand alone, guilty as charged, wanting this house to obliterate me.


As prose it is descriptive and it could stand well as a short vinette or perhaps as a prose poem. The initial subdivision of lines did have a bit of rhyme on the last two stanzas and featured a powerful simile, but, as a poem, the phrasing seemed burdened with some redundancy and language that diluted the impact of the lines, in my opinion. I liked Flyguy's approach, but simply grabbed a bigger scalpel and cut a bit more.

Since BB asked for our opinions and recommendations I looked for the best way to remove the redundancy and perhaps rework the language a bit to take advantage of the most powerful elements of the poem. In some cases, I tried to simplify the language:

"...but I betrayed all that we had come to be..." became "...but I betrayed all that we were..."

In another case I thought the trimming enhanced what was being said:

"And your mother’s incessant cleaning could not prevent the ashen shadows of the furniture..."

It seemed to me that, in this house, the shadows were from more than just the furniture:

"Mother's incessant cleaning could not prevent the shadows..."

"Ashen" also seemed superfluous, especially when the shadows were so powerfully depicted with the following line: "...staining the walls like victims of a nuclear blast."

Of course, and obviously, this trimming can go too far as exhibited in Anonmouse's tongue-in-cheek post. I simply cut deep into the poem to offer suggestions or alternatives to BB's original work. Whether the poet chooses to take some of my advice or not will depend upon what BB wants to do with the work.

From what I read of BB's works, I am confident whatever is done, all possiblities will be explored and exploited to create a powerful poem, regardless of what anyone recommends.

In response to 1201 questions:

Jim,
weighing in with a counterpoint, and a couple of questions.
Counter:
Bogus just had a nuclear blast, probably the most jolting image in the poem,
I think it calls for obliterate, annihilate etc. It is far away to avoid cliche effect, and would serve to tie it together.
Questions:
old conversations
The inane chatter, the bickering and laughter, these seem a bit cluttered and in no order to me, why would you not change?

hollowness sighs with old conversations Does have a nice ring to it, but you do not think it is a good idea to cut down on the nesses?


Like Flyguy, I was uncomfortable with obliterate... well, for one, simply because the four syllables on that line felt uncomfortable. But I also wanted something less obtrusive. Yes there was a nuclear blast, but I felt the speaker in the poem had survived the blast only to die of the whimper, if you excuse my allusion to Eliot. The final cut was the abandonment of the speaker's co-conspirator (his daughter?), I didn't think it was the blast that did the speaker in, it was the silence. The house could then quietly bury him.

I kind of liked the chaotic bickering, conversations... "hollowness" might be reconsidered, perhaps changing it to something that supports the blast or shadow images better.


Anyway, those were my thoughts on the poem... Of course I often follow the Dorothy Parker approach to writing and editing:

"I can't write five words but that I change seven."



jim : )